The problem of buying coins that have been cracked out with label?
logger7
Posts: 9,068 ✭✭✭✭✭
I put in a bid on this 1898 $20 gold piece, bids were protected for whatever reason: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1898-20-Liberty-Head-Double-Eagle-Gold-Coin-/302521213755?hash=item466fab633b:g:CkYAAOSwH2VaBHxl&nma=true&si=2eUWbk55JXnnv3kHM3Br5lTBKCc%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
1 How do you know whether the label is for the same coins and #2 that it will still grade?
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You don’t.
Not sure why anyone would crack out then introduce the label. Maybe just trying to be 100% open. Either way if you want the coin buy it as raw have it checked right away. If anything wrong you have buyers protection on Febay. Let us know when you have in hand.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
What he said.
I once saw a Trade Dollar that was graded PCGS MS-63 that had the NGC MS-64 label included with it.
Maybe he went for an upgrade or cross over and it failed.
"The problem of buying coins that have been cracked out with label?"
Simple answer: don't (ever) buy.
Playing chance isn't for me as you can't know.
Ignore the label and treat it as a raw coin which is what it is.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
About five years ago I bought about 8 Morgans from a guy on ebay selling a complete set from an album. They all had labels from NGC and each of them went back to the same grade. This was before the plus grades so none upgraded.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
I'll tell you why. Here we go he or she bought the coin thought it would up grade. But he or she thought if I send it in with a NGC holder it may not, so they cracked it out sent it in and it came back AU58 then thought I mess up
But maybe I can sell it with the cert and some one not knowing or a new collector will buy it, I think that's what happen. Any one else want to take a crack at it? 
Hoard the keys.
Go to the NGC website and verify the certification number and match the coin to their pictures.....It is the same coin:
https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/3404341-034/61/
Dan and I have over a dozen trade dollars that had to be downgraded Fromm NGC to make PCGS plastic
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
This is not allowed on EBay. Looks like the listing was ended by the seller which makes me wonder if the seller is a member here and knew it was not kosher so he pulled it once he saw this thread to prevent it from being removed by eBay.
I bought several raw walkers from a high grade set where the collector had kept the labels.
The 17S reverse had an OGH 63 label, that I sent in with the coin. Frankly I thought it had a shot at 64, but to my surprise it came back as a 62.
That was my LAST submission....
A couple points, it did end earlier because the auction closed then, he used the protect buyer identity just in case an unsavory mobster won it who wanted to remain private lol. "private listing - bidders' identities protected $1,555.11 18 Nov 2017 at 9:21:52PM PST" Are those real bids with that arrangement?
Point two he must have thought it was worth more: "Please check the pictures for your judgment.
Asking $2,200.00" "For your attention 1898 $20 Liberty Head Double Eagle Gold Coin. It was originally certified by as Mint State 61, but the holder was damaged and coin was removed. The label is included."
IMO, @JBK has the best answer. I see a lot of coins in flips with a label from a TPGS. In most cases, the coin was cracked and failed to upgrade or even cross. As another member posted, it means nothing. We all know with the loose AU/MS line what can happen. Additionally, the same TPGS may put different MS grades on a plus, star, or attractive "liner." If you are not one of the "big boys" it's probably best to leave your coins in the slab they are in for a few years and let "gradflation" give them a bump.
A grading instructor I know has several Franklins in PR-64 holders from the 1980's that are PR-67 or 68 using today's standards. Other coins in his grading sets formed decades ago have jumped at least one grade. It does not matter what the label says as the coins are graded in class using "modern" standards.
Getting hit with a hammer can do that sometimes....
I have seen people to crack to put into type albums and sets, some guys just do not really like plastic.
I always save the certs. If the coin's going into a Dansco the cert goes into an envelope in the book.
If it's a cross, the cert is stuck to the back of the slab.
I do the same with regrades and crack-outs. I have a PCGS AU58 1839 bust half with the PCGS MS61 cert on the reverse.
Lance.
I do believe the listing was good. Nowhere does the seller mention NGC in the listing, not the title, not the description. Only the image shows the former NGC label. There were no revisions, and even in 'Item Specifics', seller lists it as 'ungraded'. The listing was good, the seller might have left $$ on the table.
I would not bid on any auction like this one.... Sure, could be ok... but not worth the risk.... Especially with gold. Cheers, RickO
You just gotta buy the coin for what it is. I have seen a few coins that have been cracked and placed into albums and attached to the rear of albums as well. I am not much of a slab cracker, but I have purchased a few that had the accompanying slab insert with them based upon the images. The best one was an old ANACS insert, no way of knowing if it was the same for the coin or not.
1854 10C (sellers image)
TrueView image
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I've bought a few that way, and that later no graded. Lots of copper still gets cracked out, not as much as before but still a lot.
A question would be, would re-submitters have luck if there has been true view at PCGS or scanner images at NGC with them reslabbing them based on matching up images?
@logger7 I don't think that the TPG pay that close of attention on a submission unless it is one of those extreme rarities that demands attention.
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No. Some coins that have been cracked out have been messed with such as wiping with a cloth or being washed with soap and water.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Agreed.........and I believe that the seller is trying to be honest........but it can't be proven.
The coin does look like the grade assigned, though.
Pete
In the old days with the ANACS photo certificates you had a photo you could use to compare the coin to it. With slabs you don't have that direct link. If you know that the photo is the same coin that's great, but you can't be sure.
Every time you submit a coin for grading, the result might be different. That situation has been acknowledged for many years. You crack out coins at your peril, maybe to your advantage.
It used to be that the grading services took a submission with a certification label in the flip seriously if it was a major long time numismatist. A dealer I bought a coin from sent a rare coin back to PCGS with the insert and they put it back into the MS61 holder.
There is no guarantee of course, but as a collector myself I have cracked out a lot of coins, kept the insert that showed the grade and resold it with the insert. I realize that I have lost value once cracked out, but the insert hopefully provides the buyer a little bit of security and comfort that coin once holdered. Nowadays, I ALWAYS scan the coin thoroughly first, then at least when I sell, I can provide pics along with the insert.
There is no guarantee as others have said, but I have a few coins that come back in from customers where they had purchased them in holders, cracked them out for a dansco. Often , some of the coins do not have enough value to warrant resubmission, especially when they are coins bought from me, and I have to pay them a little fairer than I would like too.