Gimmie three steps, gimmie three steps towards the door . NGC to PCGS to CAC
Justacommeman
Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
Well I finally finished the process of crossing all of my NGC coins to PCGS and then unto CAC. I also had a few PCGS coins that were bought without stickers that were submited. This was my first CAC submission. All were toned high grade commems and toned Walkers.
The NGC to PCGC grand total was 32 out of 39 crossed. I sold all of the ones that didn't cross and also a few that did.
At the end of the day I was left with 22 coins in PCGS holders that have never been to Beanland. Just got the results today. 18 passed. 4 failed. Zero exceeded. No Stewart Blay results and absolutely no surprises
The one coin I really needed to cross and sticker was a Lafayette in NGC 66 I bought non stickered that I really paid up for. I'm happy to report it passed both tests. It's now PCGS 66 CAC. The value between a NGC non stickered Lafayette and a PCGS stickered Lafayette is over 10K. Don't ask me if I think it's fair it just is what it is today
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
Way Cool
That's a lot of hard work! Congrats the nail biters were successes generally. Once they are in PCGS holders you could go for reconsideration too at some point.
Congrats on those results. It shows you bought the coin, not the holder.
Now I've got that song in my head, thanks!
Sweet Mark! Some good news after your near death experience south of the border!!
I'm totally a drinker of the PCGS Kool-Aid nowadays.
I'm not so bean-happy as you are, but I'm at least 90% Dark Side, or the story might be different.
In my case, it's all about PCGS and TrueViews rather than PCGS and CAC stickers.
If PCGS hired a crack team of ancient coin experts and decided to compete with NGC on that front, then I might cross all my NGCs. I pretty much use PCGS for everything non-ancient.
On the other hand, if NGC upped their game on the photography front and made some drastic changes to their plastic capsules, they would get more respect from me.
Congrats but if you had some that didn't cross you really liked you could have worked them a bit more.
Sometimes resending them to NGC for regrades and then having someone else resubmit them to PCGS works like a charm.
The cert number changes at NGC if it upgrades and I've witnessed coins PCGS didn't like the first time end up a point higher the next.
I've also seen coins that CAC didn't like in NGC plastic the first time sticker once in PCGS graded higher then before.
Just like many coins CAC declined one time have been stickered the second time viewed in the same exact holder once the original owner dumped them.
It's all a game, but if there's some coins you feel strongly about its worth venturing down a few other avenues prior to selling them in a hurry.
PS- congrats on the Lafayette.
Now post pix.
How does that work? You send in the graded NGC coin right to PCGS? They are able to safely crack it open without damaging the coin? I bet it never works in the opposite direction....imagine sending PCGS graded coins to NGC for regrading!!
I have coins graded from ANACS, NGC, and PCGS not knowing the difference between any grading companies, but I'm learning through this forum that PCGS is the optimal grading company. I don't have any with CAC stickers...yet!
Beautiful toned Lafayette from 1900~
81.8% success .... solid B-
That Lafayette is killer.
They use a bandsaw with a dust collection vacuum system and the slab just opens once cut...
No one is sitting there at the grading services in a huge pile of cracked acrylic shards.
Congrats! Do you have more of the photos posted elsewhere?
I'm sure Stewart would also say if you believe in the coin, keep pushing. That's why his 1856 is now in a 66 holder, and it's taken years.
Somewhere about a 30 percent cross rate followed by a 40 percent sticker rate would result in a twelve percent parlay for the average bear. You have listened and learned well, Grasshopper.
Oh and I like the Lafayette.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
@Broadstruck
@ DMWJR
The four that didn't pass I figured wouldn't when I bought them. I bought them anyways.
Maybe I should have worked harder on the coins that didn't cross but I was able to trade or sell them quickly ( one day) so I went that route.
Sure it's a game. But, I'm a house in order kind of guy. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow I'll know on the elevator ride up or down to the next world that my wife will be fine and easy peasybwhen they get sold off. She will have on heck of a spending spree at Barney's. Or if I dodge that bus and take a glancing blow and decide to sell down the road I'll be positioned to be more liquid and maximize value. I've seen it all to often. There is a PCGS and CAC bias.
@ lord the Lafayette is in the OP
Here are two that didn't sticker. The Maine is a 66 and the Walket a 67. Both were bought as aesthetically they don't get much better for the series.
.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
That is a very unique Maine! I don't know much about the crossing and stickering of commems but I hear CAC doesn't much care for wildly toned ones. I've seen more than a number of blast white stickered commems on collectors.com. I prefer yours.
Wow good job!
Beautiful coins Mark. I'm sure I would be very happy with your "cast offs".
Those two are beauties (I have always admired that 1942). I also commend you for posting them -- the coins that don't sticker are the ones that provide the lessons. We can each agree or disagree, but the information is invaluable.
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
That assumes a random distribution...but in the coin grading game the coins that cross are probably the same ones that sticker
I'm not sure about that. Mine are all toned. Some crazy. I have two that aren't stickered. The Maine and an Oregon. ( below )
Here is the third coin that didn't sticker. The Oregon. I bought it from Larry Shepherd. I still love it. Ok I was a little surprised on this one.
This crazy Oregon stickered in the same submission
This Walker I knew would sticker in this submission. It's better then a 68. I would crack this out any day of the week with confidence.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Great results Mark. And you know darn well the 4 that didn't cross will likely do that in the near future. It just wasn't "your" time. And stickers on those some day wouldn't surprise me.
I've had numerous gem NGC seated/barber type coins that stickered - yet failed to cross. Crossing over is no guarantee of sticker success....nor is being in a PCGS holder.
I hope you don't sell off the CAC rejected pieces at fire sale prices. Don't rule out resubmitting any that you disagree with in hand.
You picked some nice coins Mark, (regardless of what plastic they were in when you bought them) they are still the same coins.
The market is what it is. These days the P-cac combo is just what most collectors want and they are getting top $ for them, so most likely worth the grading, shipping and sticker fees.
Now in 10 or 15 years who knows. But thats a discussion for another day, one thing is constant, if you buy nice coins regardless of market trends they will speak for themself when comes time to transfer ownership.
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My jam is this. I try to buy aesthetically pleasing coins and they also must be technically all there. I think that's like your only chance to come out alive in the coin game. The four that didn't sticker I bought knowing they were linear solid for the grade but were gorgeous in my eye and were bought. I bent my rule a little.I wouldn't sell just because they didn't sticker. I would sell if I could upgrade.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Nice Lafayette.
A lot of work for the same coins but I'm glad you got the results you wanted for the most part.
Great looking coins!
You have a good eye. Some do. Most don't.
Thanks for sharing. Interesting food for thought. I respect the TPGs and JA immensely. They know the game better than I ever will. Still, I think a collection of any size without a few that didn’t earn a certain grade, a plus, a star,or a sticker would be a collection that was likely put together without thinking.
The non-stickered coins you showed here will do just fine at some future sale time. Others will see in them the same qualities that caught your eye. No worries there.
The Maine rocks!
Congrats on that 66 Lafayette, Mark. Even though the images are not great for either set, I think I see a sure winner. WTG.
Lance
If I get hit by a bus tomorrow
That should be a piece of cake based on your recent travails!
Nice on the crosses and stickers! I would still be slightly tormented by giving up all those STAR's, but PCGS/CAC is good therapy.
Yes there are 27 less stars in the world now. That decision didn't come easy.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Wonderful coins, MJ. If that 1939 Proof Walker came from Pinnacle, you beat me on it by about 5 minutes! Remember to stay out of Mexico City high rises during earthquake season.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
Bought it on the bourse at a Michigan show about 10 years ago. Thanks T
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The value between a NGC non stickered Lafayette and a PCGS stickered Lafayette is over 10K. Don't ask me if I think it's fair it just is what it is today
I'm not defending this market fact, but it is a perception that NGC worked hard to cultivate over a 10-15 year period. had they worked harder to be what they are instead of trying to catch and pass PCGS they would have been perceived better than they were for many years. once we, as collectors and dealers, have a notion about a TPG it can be hard to shake.
by the nature of this past summer's rant by the NGC President it would seem they still haven't learned that fact. look at all the chaos that's taken place at ICG and ANACS. back around 1998 ICG seemed poised to be a "player" but opted to take the route taken by PCI 5-10 years earlier. a few years after that ANACS went nuts and committed TPG suicide.
none of those three TPG's has been relevant since. I believe the "perception" of NGC is changing but it is still a tenuous one with many, many collectors. slabbed coins continue to flow from NGC holders into the PCGS pop report where they stay. this must be maddening for NGC but a PCGS capsule is what the market wants and seems to trust.
Congratulations Mark... great results. I will say that you address your collection like a good businessman.... efficiently and with logic. Cheers, RickO
Cracked out , in the raw, would still get my approval. I am surprised STP oil treatment never staked claim on the use of the “oval” as a trademark shape when using the “decal”. Sometimes, I am surprised certain entities aren’t litigating the use of “rectangular” plastic holders as proprietary, as well. Rant over. Share holder !
The PCGS capsule is much nicer to my eye than the white bulky NGC slab so that is a factor as well.
Without thinking?
That list would include Gardner (55% sticker rate out of over 600 coins). Gene and Bill must have not been thinking.
Newman (55-65% sticker rate). Eric, what were you thinking? You didn't know 75 years ago that CAC was coming? At least you could have submitted your coins to PCGS and demanded low grades so the sticker rate would be higher.
Pogue (far from 100% sticker rate). Dave Akers too? Sheesh.
Nicely done!
Buy the coin and WANT the holder!
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
To be honest anytime I buy a coin in a modern NGC holder I think what solid grade this will be in a PCGS holder and then I make my pass or play decision based on that value. So I'm part of the problem keets was getting at. For sure I'm going to crack or cross
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@roadrunner
I think you misunderstood my comment. I’m saying that any large collection that is 100% PCGS CAC was most likely assembled by relying exclusively on grades & stickers. If an educated, experienced collector (like the OP) buys what they like, it’s very likely that the TPGs and CAC will see a few of them differently. My world view of collecting is broad enough to accept a little variation in taste and opinion, notwithstanding the vast difference between my fund of knowledge and that of the pros.
I believe you interpreted this backwards. Bryce is saying that a collection of only CAC stickered coins likely means that the collector wasn’t thinking (completely) for himself.
Or has world class grading skills and refuses to compromise