I would be delighted if coin collecting died off and I was the last man standing. My family would lock me in the basement with my worthless piles of CAC'd pedigreed rarities. It would be weird, but worth it.
I doubt the hobby will ever die, but it is in decline. All one has to do is look at price trends. Think about it...what other investments (and like it or not, there will always be an investment aspect) peaked in 1989 like coins? Silver peaked even earlier..
If the hobby is dying, then I'd sure like to live long enough to attend the funeral. Then I could really clean-up and get all those coins that I couldn't afford when the hobby was alive and well. FAT CHANCE.
I doubt the hobby will ever die, but it is in decline. All one has to do is look at price trends. Think about it...what other investments (and like it or not, there will always be an investment aspect) peaked in 1989 like coins? Silver peaked even earlier..
I wonder if any of the decline can be attributed to gradeflation?
There are fewer collectors, demand for vintage coins declining or at a recent show basically non existent.
Lack of money is another factor. Consistent poor market performance adds to this. There are many issues only the wealthy can afford, I expect many to decline.
Coins based more on intrinsic value (bullion) increasing.
The few CAC coins I had in my cases at recent show had no lookers or takers. People aren’t gonna pay extra money because a coin has a sticker. This is especially affected by the above. The sticker game will not save the coin market and is a non player in other major market areas - MWG, Currency, World anyway and never will be.
My last 3 shows have been horrible in terms of selling. Mod Gold close to melt outsold everything. They are not even asking look at vintage coins or about prices. And if priced say close to cost or bid not asking even look at those. However I have seen interest in Franklin Halves.
I don't think so........I doubt we'll see it in our lifetime if ever.
It is, however, evolving (electronically) but I think that the next generation will carry the torch and prices will continue to rise for quality material.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
No. The hobby is alive and well but going through a transition.
And I disagree about less money in the younger generations pockets to spend. There are more younger people and they have more money to spend.
At the summer ANA in Denver, there were alot of people under the age of 30 or so roaming the bourse. What I observed is that many of these younger collectors were buying at the MCM, APMEX, etc. tables - modern mint made collector bullion, both still in mint packaging and graded by NGC and PCGS. As far as I can tell, these companies were selling these like hot cakes. And the young folks had money to spend, perhaps better and more wisely at using their money since these types of coins are close to their bullion values in price.
Go to Youtube, see what videos are being put up on coins. As far as I can tell, alot of them are put up by 'stackers', who collect the collector bullion coins, and most of them are getting their coins certified and showing the results.
Now there is alot more choices of what to collect, there seems to be a stronger market for world coins and alot of US folks are starting to discover these amazing coins from elsewhere. And both NGC and PCGS are certifying alot more world coins - particularly modern bullion and older chinese coins. That might be taking some of the market away from the US coins - more Americans spending their money on this world side of numismatic products.
So the modern collector bullion side of numismatics seems to be doing well. 3 shows an expanded market. At some point, these collectors, will likely take their collecting curiosity to the traditional US coin pre modern market. This is similar to the influx of new collectors that started with US state quarters then moved to different things. Only this time, they have more money, as these new collectors are used to buying gold bullion etc. So while US traditional market is dipping right now, it will probably come back up when these new bullion collectors expand their interests.
I agree with @spacehayduke on collector bullion and stackers. There has been an explosion of activity in this area recently, with high quality bullion art at low prices. There are popular stacker forums on Reddit like SilverBug.
@Hydrant said:
If the hobby is dying, then I'd sure like to live long enough to attend the funeral. Then I could really clean-up and get all those coins that I couldn't afford when the hobby was alive and well. FAT CHANCE.
Stack bullion. In time, you will have made enough money on it so you can afford the coins available in the hobby. Ask the peddlers of it. Buy low. Stack high.
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
the problem with the hobby of kings is ...
fewer kings.
It has been said that horse racing is the "Sport of Kings". But it is a well known accepted viewpoint that it could not survive without the little guy who bets his $2.00 faithfully. So without the little consistent small buyers where does that leave the coin market? Just Kings selling to other Kings.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
No. The quality coins will continue to be more expensive and the generic stuff dead. The graders have slabbed over 60 million coins since the kid 1980s ans many more are in collections. One could say coins that have been discontinued like the 2 cent piece are going away. The silver dollar never took of as a circulation coin in a big way but I think it is the most collected coin in the world. If its old, rare and early American the demand is growing as more foreign collectors are poping up. I do not care what I hear but remember well what I see. A trip to Europe for a month really opened my eyes as to how much the rest of the world like to own U.S. collectibles and want to come here to live.
I don't think the hobby is dying, but I find it increasingly frustrating, and with few exceptions, do not plan on buying much until the situation changes. The number of classic (say pre 1930) coins is finite. I'm guessing 90% of these coins worth $500 or more have been graded at least twice.
Almost everything I own, before I sell it, will have to be re-graded in order not to leave too much money on the table. If it has a sticker and it gets into a plus holder or upgrades, it has to go back to CAC (JA does not recognize the plus, so I'd have to get a plus coin re-stickered, as it is in a new holder, and if the coin upgrades, I'd try to get a bean on the upgraded coin).
The ideas of TPGs was to avoid the guesswork of buying and selling coins, and to encourage the buying and selling of coins sight unseen. Ditto re CAC. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would never do a sight unseen purchase unless someone I trust has blessed a potential purchase.
Unfortunately, I see the problems. I can provide suggestions as to what NOT to do in today's market, but I don't see the solutions to a long term fix for the hobby.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
As a i.b.e.w. electrician I have worked at a lot of the large data storage facilities around the country and these comps. Need power to stay up and running and I am a firm believer that if they stop producing currency of numismatic and intrinsic value the error of there ways will be a severe and abrupt awakening, with all the cyber threats and hacking going on currency like bitcoin will be useless if someone were able to breach the computers that control our power plants or the worst of all release a e.m.p. (a nuclear bomb explosion). The people that would be best off after something like this were to happen would be persons that were in posesion of monetary metals and firearms probably the best off would have both. So regardless of your opinion on this matter I would say it's better to have that type of money metal or physical currency and not need it, than to need it and not have it. I know I will be collecting no matter where the market goes. Actually I hope the value of gold and silver drops drastically so I can buy as much as I can
Comments
I would be delighted if coin collecting died off and I was the last man standing. My family would lock me in the basement with my worthless piles of CAC'd pedigreed rarities. It would be weird, but worth it.
Yes, the hobby is dead. That's why we buy the book, not the coin.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
https://www.pcgs.com/prices/frame.aspx?type=coinindex&filename=index
I doubt the hobby will ever die, but it is in decline. All one has to do is look at price trends. Think about it...what other investments (and like it or not, there will always be an investment aspect) peaked in 1989 like coins? Silver peaked even earlier..
If the hobby is dying, then I'd sure like to live long enough to attend the funeral. Then I could really clean-up and get all those coins that I couldn't afford when the hobby was alive and well. FAT CHANCE.
I wonder if any of the decline can be attributed to gradeflation?
Unfortunately, yes. Please send all coins to me for proper disposal.
Yes
the problem with the hobby of kings is ...
fewer kings.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Yes disposable income is a key factor, I see a lot of the common type hole fillers have left the hobby the extra money is just not there.
I don't think so........I doubt we'll see it in our lifetime if ever.
It is, however, evolving (electronically) but I think that the next generation will carry the torch and prices will continue to rise for quality material.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
No. The hobby is alive and well but going through a transition.
And I disagree about less money in the younger generations pockets to spend. There are more younger people and they have more money to spend.
At the summer ANA in Denver, there were alot of people under the age of 30 or so roaming the bourse. What I observed is that many of these younger collectors were buying at the MCM, APMEX, etc. tables - modern mint made collector bullion, both still in mint packaging and graded by NGC and PCGS. As far as I can tell, these companies were selling these like hot cakes. And the young folks had money to spend, perhaps better and more wisely at using their money since these types of coins are close to their bullion values in price.
Go to Youtube, see what videos are being put up on coins. As far as I can tell, alot of them are put up by 'stackers', who collect the collector bullion coins, and most of them are getting their coins certified and showing the results.
Now there is alot more choices of what to collect, there seems to be a stronger market for world coins and alot of US folks are starting to discover these amazing coins from elsewhere. And both NGC and PCGS are certifying alot more world coins - particularly modern bullion and older chinese coins. That might be taking some of the market away from the US coins - more Americans spending their money on this world side of numismatic products.
So the modern collector bullion side of numismatics seems to be doing well. 3 shows an expanded market. At some point, these collectors, will likely take their collecting curiosity to the traditional US coin pre modern market. This is similar to the influx of new collectors that started with US state quarters then moved to different things. Only this time, they have more money, as these new collectors are used to buying gold bullion etc. So while US traditional market is dipping right now, it will probably come back up when these new bullion collectors expand their interests.
Best, SH
I agree with @spacehayduke on collector bullion and stackers. There has been an explosion of activity in this area recently, with high quality bullion art at low prices. There are popular stacker forums on Reddit like SilverBug.
Stack bullion. In time, you will have made enough money on it so you can afford the coins available in the hobby. Ask the peddlers of it. Buy low. Stack high.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
It has been said that horse racing is the "Sport of Kings". But it is a well known accepted viewpoint that it could not survive without the little guy who bets his $2.00 faithfully. So without the little consistent small buyers where does that leave the coin market? Just Kings selling to other Kings.
No. The quality coins will continue to be more expensive and the generic stuff dead. The graders have slabbed over 60 million coins since the kid 1980s ans many more are in collections. One could say coins that have been discontinued like the 2 cent piece are going away. The silver dollar never took of as a circulation coin in a big way but I think it is the most collected coin in the world. If its old, rare and early American the demand is growing as more foreign collectors are poping up. I do not care what I hear but remember well what I see. A trip to Europe for a month really opened my eyes as to how much the rest of the world like to own U.S. collectibles and want to come here to live.
Experience has proved to be a very good teacher.
Go Astros
I don't think the hobby is dying, but I find it increasingly frustrating, and with few exceptions, do not plan on buying much until the situation changes. The number of classic (say pre 1930) coins is finite. I'm guessing 90% of these coins worth $500 or more have been graded at least twice.
Almost everything I own, before I sell it, will have to be re-graded in order not to leave too much money on the table. If it has a sticker and it gets into a plus holder or upgrades, it has to go back to CAC (JA does not recognize the plus, so I'd have to get a plus coin re-stickered, as it is in a new holder, and if the coin upgrades, I'd try to get a bean on the upgraded coin).
The ideas of TPGs was to avoid the guesswork of buying and selling coins, and to encourage the buying and selling of coins sight unseen. Ditto re CAC. I can't speak for anyone else, but I would never do a sight unseen purchase unless someone I trust has blessed a potential purchase.
Unfortunately, I see the problems. I can provide suggestions as to what NOT to do in today's market, but I don't see the solutions to a long term fix for the hobby.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
As a i.b.e.w. electrician I have worked at a lot of the large data storage facilities around the country and these comps. Need power to stay up and running and I am a firm believer that if they stop producing currency of numismatic and intrinsic value the error of there ways will be a severe and abrupt awakening, with all the cyber threats and hacking going on currency like bitcoin will be useless if someone were able to breach the computers that control our power plants or the worst of all release a e.m.p. (a nuclear bomb explosion). The people that would be best off after something like this were to happen would be persons that were in posesion of monetary metals and firearms probably the best off would have both. So regardless of your opinion on this matter I would say it's better to have that type of money metal or physical currency and not need it, than to need it and not have it. I know I will be collecting no matter where the market goes. Actually I hope the value of gold and silver drops drastically so I can buy as much as I can
Brian k.