Home U.S. Coin Forum
Options

Is the hobby of coin collecting dying, thoughts?

Golden1Golden1 Posts: 208 ✭✭✭
edited October 7, 2017 12:19PM in U.S. Coin Forum

What can spur new interest?
1. Precious metals rise in price. I noticed many became interested in the last run up. Could it happen again? I think the biggest motivator is rising prices. Human nature is primarily influenced by fear and greed.
2. Portable wealth, what else can you hold and carry if need be, that is portable and valuable?
3. A economy that is booming and the inflation that will ensue from it might make new investors come to the market with new disposable income.
4. The government going cashless and the government making bitcoin illegal
5. Younger generations inheriting parents/grandparents collections. If they are not lazy they will have to become savvy to sell slowly to maximize profits. Once they get involved with selling, they might realize these coins value and even like their beauty?
6. Economic crash, It's not a matter of if, but when. What will be valuable during the next depression when their is no currency?
7. Shortages of precious metals, Mints may be limited from producing the insane amounts of collectible coins they make now, making existing coins more desirable.

I wrote this as a legitimate concern for not just hobbyist, but for investors that have a lot of money tied up in our collections.
The world is changing and so are markets, protecting one's wealth is of the utmost importance.

What could the US Mint do better to cater to younger generations? Maybe a smaller silver/gold coin series that Millennials can afford easier, collect, or use for barter/trade?

«1

Comments

  • Options
    ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,760 ✭✭✭✭

    And for the record, I did not flag this thread.

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • Options
    Golden1Golden1 Posts: 208 ✭✭✭

    @Shamika said:

    @Golden1 said:

    1. The liberal left is destroying our history, removing historic statues and I don't believe much history is being taught is schools anymore.

    Are you referring to the statues of the confederacy or something else?

    Also, are you trying to impart politics into this thread with this statement? As a long time member of this board, I can say this is never a wise move.

    Not trying to impart anything other then fact. This is not a political statement, just fact.

  • Options
    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 9:15AM

    @Golden1 said:
    Can someone tell me why this post was flagged for abuse?

    Ask the person that flagged it w/o any substantive comments. You had 8 points in the thread. Who knows which of those (or all 8) that they have a problem with? Break this down into 8 separate threads and then we'll know for sure.

    Click on the "flag" and then put your mouse over "abuse"..... the ID pops up. Fwiw, I agree with most of your points. #8 has some wording that could be considered provocative by some.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Options
    Golden1Golden1 Posts: 208 ✭✭✭

    @Shamika said:

    @Golden1 said:

    1. The liberal left is destroying our history, removing historic statues and I don't believe much history is being taught is schools anymore.

    Are you referring to the statues of the confederacy or something else?

    Also, are you trying to impart politics into this thread with this statement? As a long time member of this board, I can say this is never a wise move.

    Yes on the Confederate statues, but also all statues, religious, even Christopher Columbus. Nothing is sacred anymore.

  • Options
    ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,760 ✭✭✭✭

    Golden1 - Discussing politics (i.e. liberals) is a divisive topic and I've seen it take away from the main topic of threads many times. (I apologize for doing that very thing :# ). I'm just offering some advice. Take it for what it's worth.

    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • Options
    Golden1Golden1 Posts: 208 ✭✭✭

    So I can understand the parameters on Collectors Universe, am I to understand anything that represents political figures, or discussions of political figures on/of coins in our history, is considered politics and out of bounds. Does that include Confederate coins and Presidential coins,

  • Options
    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 9:27AM

    On a similar note, the persons appearing on our current cent, nickel, quarter, and half dollar (and $1, $5, $10, $20, $50, $100 Federal Reserve Notes) are perceived by many to have "flaws" in their past. How long before all of these get redesigned as those historic statesmen don't "measure up" to today's level of PC scrutiny? Forget the statues, we stare at our coinage and currency most every day of our lives. I suspect it will be sooner than we think. I wouldn't mind a return to Liberty Seated silver coinage again. ;)

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Options
    Golden1Golden1 Posts: 208 ✭✭✭

    I was going to ask why/when "In God We Trust" was introduced to coinage, but I didn't want to be lambasted for bringing religion into a discussion...so I won't ask.

  • Options
    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just some thoughts - before getting the thread back to coin collecting.

    RE: "Not trying to impart anything other then fact. This is not a political statement, just fact."
    No, that is not a statement of fact or truth. It is an opinion, and appears to be unrelated to numismatic discussion.

    RE: "I was going to ask why/when "In God We Trust" was introduced to coinage,..."
    This is an entirely legitimate numismatic question of fact and does not represent an opinion.

  • Options
    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As long as people are interested in history, there will be people who are interested in, and want to be able to interpret coins as historical artifacts. Almost everything else in this "hobby" is just a giant game of "screw your buddy".

  • Options
    NumivenNumiven Posts: 377 ✭✭✭

    Sounds like a troll.

    Numismatics & Photography
    rv@ravenumismatics.com
    Instagram.com/coin2photo

  • Options
    KollectorKingKollectorKing Posts: 4,820 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 9:34AM

    @Shamika said:
    And for the record, I did not flag this thread.

    Nor me or I.

    ps - tough & rough crowd.

  • Options
    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 9:40AM

    The hobby of talking about the hobby of coins dying seems to be alive and well ;)

    I'm spending more time on Pinterest, Instagram, Facebook, etc. which seem to be very active and promising.

  • Options
    crazyhounddogcrazyhounddog Posts: 13,815 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I for one am tired of the "Chicken Little" cries of the sky is falling. I see nothing to lead me to believe that collecting old money will ever be in trouble. Generally it's the dealer's that sing this song cause they can't move their in inventory.
    Give me a break. It's a hobby not the Fortune 500.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • Options
    Golden1Golden1 Posts: 208 ✭✭✭

    @kaz said:
    In general, among younger folks I see (besides less disposable income) less of a tendency to accumulate things. There does not seem to be much interest, for example, in our family's heirloom antiques among the younger people, even those with houses large enough to accommodate the furniture. I also think the trend towards paying for things electronically leads to less interest in coins/currency in general.
    History, like civics, "social studies (remember that?)" is being de emphasized due to the all important STEM subjects and the need to pass mandated tests at all stages in the education process. To really appreciate coins requires some interest in their historic context, and as artifacts of our society. I'm just not seeing that so much these days.

    It's a legitimate concern. Excellent synopsis!

  • Options
    dpooledpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Good question!

    I think a surge in PMs is the most likely to reignite wider interest, since many coins are depositories of PMs, and are poised to stimulate further interest because of their history and beauty, once rediscovered. The "fertile ground" for such a reigniting is the fact that lots of cash is sloshing around among the richest 5% world-wide, and these folks are looking for places to put it where even speculative hopes for appreciation exist. Just sticking money in banks earns you nothing, or even less than nothing in Europe and Japan.

    As to the other point of controversy here: please don't feel defensive. History as expressed in coins is obviously legitimate and of wide interest here. Interpretations of that history are often a point of passion and disagreement, obviously, and we don't like to be argumentative here. (Did I just say that??) :o

  • Options
    Golden1Golden1 Posts: 208 ✭✭✭

    I hope I don't get banned for posting this political article on coinage, but here goes...

    The Carson City Mint Becomes a Political Pawn

    The reverse side of an 1870-CC Liberty Seated silver dollar. Theoretically, at least, this could have been the very first coin minted in Carson City. Photo courtesy of Ira & Larry Goldberg Coins & Collectibles, Inc., Beverly Hills, CA.
    The very first Carson City Mint coin to debut was the 1870-CC Liberty Seated silver dollar. On February 11, 1870, Mr. A. Wright, an individual who had earlier deposited silver at the Mint, received 2303 of these dollars. Three days later, gold eagles ($10 gold coins) were struck, followed closely by half eagles ($5 gold) and double eagles ($20 gold).

    Several denominations of US coins were never minted at Carson City, even though they were contemporaries of the Carson City Mint. These included all coins composed of copper and nickel, half dimes, gold dollars, quarter eagles, and three dollar gold pieces.

    Oddly enough, the most short-lived American coin series ever, the 20-cent piece, was in fact produced at Carson City. Actually, the 1876-CC is one of the rarities most cherished by modern day coin collectors, worth over $400,000 in top uncirculated condition.

    During its time of service, politics often impacted the status of the Carson City Mint. Years earlier, in 1834, the US government announced it would value silver and gold at a ratio of 16 to 1, (up from the 15:1 ratio established in 1792, see bimetallism). In doing so, Uncle Sam also continued to specify the weight of silver or gold to be coined into one dollar's worth of hard money. Anyone could bring their bullion to the Mint and receive "Y" dollars worth of coins in exchange for "X" ounces of bullion, based on these criteria. In effect, this practice set the price the government was willing to pay per troy ounce for silver and gold (example: a $10 gold eagle, containing .48375 troy ounces of pure gold, put the governmental value of gold at $20.67 per troy ounce).

    This worked well until the late 1840s and 1850s, when the supply of gold increased dramatically, upsetting the existing gold-silver balance (see California Gold Rush). Consequently, silver became more scarce relative to gold than before, meaning silver barons could sell 16 ounces of silver to private buyers, many of the foreign-based, for more than one ounce of gold. As a result, they often preferred to sell their silver this way rather than take it to one of the US mints for conversion into coinage.

    As the prolific Comstock Lode and mines in Colorado dumped silver into the open market, this situation reversed itself, and by the mid 1870s, private buyers were purchasing 16 ounces of silver for less than one ounce of gold.

    Recalling the Treasury's offer to buy silver at the ratio of 16 to 1, silver owners came to the Carson City Mint and other US mints, desiring their silver to be coined into dollars.

    Much to their disgust, they learned that Congress had already enacted the Coinage Act of 1873, eliminating the silver dollar, and in effect, demonetized silver and committed our country to a gold standard only. Silver advocates, or "Silverites," as they came to be known, denounced the law as the "Crime of '73". This touched off a bitter political feud between Silverites seeking the return of bimetallism, and the "Gold Bugs", those who favored the gold monometallism concept. Throughout the remainder of the 19th century and then some, this controversy dominated American political debate.

    Furious at the loss of a profitable market for their bullion, the "Crime of '73" became a rallying cry for groups, mostly from the West, insisting the government buy silver. The persuasive Silverites arm-twisted Congress to pass the Bland-Allison Act in 1878.

    This was not a full return to bimetallism, but under Bland-Allison, the Treasury Dept was required to purchase $2 to $4 million of silver monthly and mint it into dollar coins, in a quest to stabilize the price of silver at artificially high levels. The dollars were named after George T. Morgan, the designer of the new coin. Accordingly, large quantities of Morgan silver dollars were minted, but many did not circulate well, especially in eastern states where silver was resented. Millions of the unused coins ended up in Treasury storage vaults for decades.

    **The election of 1884 sent Democrat Grover Cleveland to the White House. At that time, the top Carson City Mint officials had been placed there by Republican presidents, and were loyal members of the GOP. In September 1885, Cleveland fired all mint employees and completely shut down the facility.

    The doors reopened a year later, but only to function as an assay office. When Benjamin Harrison recaptured the presidency for the GOP in 1888, the Democratic appointees were replaced by Republicans. In 1889, Carson City was allocated funds to resume coining operations. **

    The Bland-Allison Act was modified by the Sherman Silver Purchase Act of 1890. The Act mandated a government purchase of 4.5 million ounces of silver each month, to be paid for with Treasury bonds redeemable in either gold or silver. Unexpectedly, most bond holders redeemed their notes in gold, depleting the Treasury’s gold reserve and throwing the entire country into a severe financial panic in 1893, leading to the repeal of the Sherman Act and greatly slowing the production of silver dollars. This is explains the scarcity of silver dollars minted in the years 1893 through 1895.

    Simultaneous to the national political and economic developments of the 1890s, the once plentiful Nevada silver mines were tailing off. Add to that a persistently low silver price, the already mentioned national economic crises, and whiff of scandal (a Mint employee was accused of attempting to smuggle out gold bullion in a lunch box), it came as no surprise when on June 1, 1893, Mint Director Robert Preston ordered a cessation of coining operations at the Carson City Mint.

    Because the facility was to remain open as an assay office, many assumed that when conditions improved, coins would once again emanate from Carson City. But, sadly, as we now know today, the world had seen the last of the "CC" coins.

    http://www.us-coin-values-advisor.com/carson-city-mint.html#Political_Pawn

  • Options
    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Golden1 said:
    I was going to ask why/when "In God We Trust" was introduced to coinage, but I didn't want to be lambasted for bringing religion into a discussion...so I won't ask.

    In God we trust was added during the War of Secession at the suggestion off a minister who felt that sure times required a greater power. [Frankly, it probably does violate the Establishment clause, at least in spirit. ]

  • Options
    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s not clear that any of the OPs suggestions address how to create new interest in coin collecting. But here are some very brief responses to the numbered comments.

    1. It is likely that increasing prices of gold and silver only serve to discourage collecting coins. The monetary investment increases and thereby prices even ordinary coins (VF or EF silver and gold) out of the budget of potential collectors. Interest increases, but only monetary, not as a hobby.
    2. There are numerous ways to have and hold portable wealth. Precious metals are one of the worst. They place your assets under total value control of organizations and forces over which you have no influence. During the US gold standard era, banks uniformly opposed holding specie as reserves: specie paid no interest and generated no income.
    3. Disposal income is always attracted to means of its use. Hobbies are one of those uses, but nothing demands expansion of any hobby. Telephone technology has absorbed a great deal of disposable income, especially at the nearly $1,000 per device price level.
    4. The U.S. Government still churns out huge quantities of coins and paper currency along with other less known financial instruments in response to public economic demand. “Bitcoin” and other fantasy currencies have no backing of any kind by anybody. Like tulip bulbs, they have “value” only until the fad changes. National currencies are backed by measurable and publicly reported economies – the day-to-day capitalist exchange of goods and services. As for “cashless” that is a function of corporations and businesses, not the government. A credit card transaction has a total cost of less than one-cent; handling the same sum in coin and currency can cost over $1. If you had a business, which would you prefer? Further, electronic transactions allow card issuers to skim a fee for every use of their cards. Again, this is not government, it is basic capitalist economics.
    5. Inheritance certainly accounts for development of a certain small percentage of new coin collectors. But anecdotal reports, some posted on hobby message boards like this one, support the idea that a lot of heirs could care less about any coins they receive in Estate distribution. Some of this obviously comes from very poor buying decisions by original, now deceased, purchasers. Promoters have sold many thousands of gold plated Kennedy halves, cents, statehood quarters and overpriced common material. Heirs are/or will be/ stuck with this nearly worthless material.
    6. All economies are cyclical. Each boom creates and concentrates new wealth; each bust redistributes and moderates prior gains. The time from cycle peak to peak (the macro cycle) varies with changes in micro cycles they contain. Historically, the greatest threat to economic stability and moderation of cycle amplitude is speculation/greed – especially within one or more large segments of an economy. Three out of the past three significant economic declines have had a very prominent component of speculation/greed – the Great Depression, the S&L Crisis and the 2007 Depression. Precious metals have little practical role in an economic collapse. As the OP notes it is “what will be valuable” to individual, family and community survival, and recovery that is important.

    We remain within the grip of the 2007 Depression. This cycle saw not only declining economic activity, but a nearly complete restructuring of income sources. Localities that had invested in quality public education, diverse employment training and re-training, and used community resources to supply workers ready for professional service and technical manufacturing jobs have recovered and largely advanced. Other areas, and there are far too many, are mired in unemployment, absence of meaningful employment and socially condoned failure, now compounded by greedy drug distributors and rampant opioid addiction which further saps economic vitality and potential.

    1. Precious metals (and precious stones) are not in short supply – they never have been. They are “precious” because of the roles assigned by tradition and the uses to which people put them. Mints make their trinkets in precious metals because they are easy to sell to people (or are mandated by Congress in the case of palladium). Mints also make shiny trinkets in other metals and multiple colors for the same reasons. If a material is truly rare, then supply and demand will ensure that it gets to the preferred commercial use, which is not for stamping out baubles.
  • Options
    koynekwestkoynekwest Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Please-no politics here. Ain't the place for it.

  • Options
    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭
    1. The liberal left is destroying our history, removing historic statues and I don't believe much history is being taught is schools anymore. These coins represent our history. Will the youth come back to their roots in history?

    I don't see a problem here. Yes, the critics who get the most press are the people who want to remove Confederate statures, but among this group are those who like to do the same thing to monuments dedicated George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. We have already seen controversies surrounding the portraits on the $10 and $20 bills. Therefore, it would not be a stretch to say once they have won the monument issue, the Jefferson Nickel and Washington Quarter could be the next items on their list.

    I would remind those who say that mentioning these issues is “political” that telling people that they must be quiet over these issues is also political. Censorship is one of the most effective political tools that authoritarian regimes have.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Options
    EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,676 ✭✭✭✭✭

    John Kraljevich on Robert E. Lee in Numismatics

    He wrote:
    "The current debate about the disposition of monuments erected to honor the Confederate States of America enables us to examine what coins, medals, and paper money have in common with other forms of public art, along with the evident differences. The most obvious contrasts are scale and location: there are no numismatic items that are 10 feet tall, nor any that dominate a public square. On the other hand, government issued coins dominate the theoretical public square in a way that no single statue ever could."

    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • Options
    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Unfortunately, Golden has deleted his post. I guess those who advocate censorship have “won” the argument, but they have not succeeded in changing any minds. All they do in the end is harden positions.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Options
    shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is amazing what we have lived through. When I was in grade school we were taught not to trust Russian or Chinese "history" books as they were rewritten whenever there was a change in politics. It really does look like we are going through a phase of that now. It may be valid, it may be overdue, but it sure adds questions to the criticism of other systems.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • Options
    JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No.

    mark

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • Options
    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,484 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @shorecoll said:
    It is amazing what we have lived through. When I was in grade school we were taught not to trust Russian or Chinese "history" books as they were rewritten whenever there was a change in politics. It really does look like we are going through a phase of that now. It may be valid, it may be overdue, but it sure adds questions to the criticism of other systems.

    Many of those who now want to re-write history are sympathetic to the Soviet and Chinese systems and would like to see them implemented here. The concept of academic freedom is in big trouble on a lot of college campuses.

    I have read a lot of history books, and it’s interesting to see slant that authors take which reflect their current political view. If you are on the far left, you read Howard Zinn. The late Mr. Zinn has already re-written U.S. History in his influential books on the subject. I don’t agree with his interpretations and analysis, but that’s perfectly okay in a free society. What I object to is the suppression of opposing points of view.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Options
    Peace_dollar88Peace_dollar88 Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No. I know several young (18-35) year old collectors. Myself included. I think the hobby is thriving and will continue to.

  • Options
    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @BillJones said:
    Unfortunately, Golden has deleted his post. I guess those who advocate censorship have “won” the argument, but they have not succeeded in changing any minds. All they do in the end is harden positions.

    It is unfortunate the OP deleted his original comments. That simply confuses others. Yet, no one posting seemed to advocate censorship unless insisting that coin collecting is the subject of these and similar message boards is important, is now called "censorship."

  • Options
    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 12:19PM

    @RogerB said:

    There are numerous ways to have and hold portable wealth. Precious metals are one of the worst. They place your assets under total value control of organizations and forces over which you have no influence. During the US gold standard era, banks uniformly opposed holding specie as reserves: specie paid no interest and generated no income.

    Precious metals (and precious stones) are not in short supply – they never have been. They are “precious” because of the roles assigned by tradition and the uses to which people put them. Mints make their trinkets in precious metals because they are easy to sell to people (or are mandated by Congress in the case of palladium). Mints also make shiny trinkets in other metals and multiple colors for the same reasons. If a material is truly rare, then supply and demand will ensure that it gets to the preferred commercial use, which is not for stamping out baubles.

    I'd love to hear some of the "better" waves to hold "portable" wealth that isn't under control of some one else. It certainly can't be fiat currencies, stock certificates, land (not portable), gem stones, rare coins, beanie babies, bitco(i)ns, digi-bucks, tulips, pet rocks, etc. as they are all under the control of other entities where you have no influence in the outcome. Out of the group, I'd probably pick gold/silver/pgm type bullion as it's under the least control, is traded world wide 24hrs/day, and accepted around the world.

    Actually precious metals are in short supply, especially rhodium, platinum, palladium, and gold. Go out and mine some if you don't think so. If any wealthy investor wanted to go out and purchase $50 MILL in any of them on that day, they'd have a problem. Considering all the gold ever mined could fill 3-4 olympic swimming pools, it's not a lot to go around....the pgm metals are a tiny fraction of that. The fact that central banks store approx 20% of the world's mined gold suggests it's different from any other form of portable wealth out there. Gold as portable wealth paid the way for many oppressed Europeans to leave the continent before and during WW2 (no gold standard 1934-1944).

    Today, the banks that do "lease" out their gold do get interest on it. "Commercial use" is not always the ultimate decider in what something is worth. How do rare coins fit into that definition? Tell rare coin dealers they don't have a commercial business. Are bullion dealers/traders/specs any different? Fwiw, Central Banks keep 30,000 tonnes of gold in inventory for commercial/banking/economic use. If not true, explain why Russia and China have been doubling and tripling their stated gold inventories over the past 15 years? If that's not a commercial/economic usage, then someone should inform them they are wasting their time and paper money to buy gold. Why did Warren Buffet buy 120 MILL ounces of physical silver from 1994-2006 if not for a commercial/economic use? All of the precious metals are used commercially and in industry. The CFTC's gold COT reporting includes "commercial" traders. Gold has significant commerce. Ask the LBMA which trades approx the amount of gold mined each year (3000 tonnes)...every day on their exchanges.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Options
    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 11:36AM

    Here are the first seven of the OPs original items. They are provided for encourage honest discussion of the subject, only.

    What can spur new interest?
    1. Precious metals rise in price. I noticed many became interested in the last run up. Could it happen again? I think the biggest motivator is rising prices. Human nature is primarily influenced by fear and greed.
    2. Portable wealth, what else can you hold and carry if need be, that is portable and valuable?
    3. A economy that is booming and the inflation that will ensue from it might make new investors come to the market with new disposable income.
    4. The government going cashless and the government making bitcoin illegal
    5. Younger generations inheriting parents/grandparents collections. If they are not lazy they will have to become savvy to sell slowly to maximize profits. Once they get involved with selling, they might realize these coins value and even like their beauty?
    6. Economic crash, It's not a matter of if, but when. What will be valuable during the next depression when their is no currency?
    7. Shortages of precious metals, Mints may be limited from producing the insane amounts of collectible coins they make now, making existing coins more desirable.

  • Options
    JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 11:40AM

    The first seven are fine. No matter what side you are on number 8 is a no no

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • Options
    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 12:06PM

    In effect, all methods of holding wealth - sheep, gold, securities, beanie babies, seal juice, or what have you - are subject to control by others, except in an isolated completely subsistence economy. This might be an extended family or is more likely a small communal society. In that situation specialized skills and basic subsistence materials such as iron, copper, flint, and quartz far out value colored rocks and minerals.

    Added----
    A little elaboration might help.
    By “portable wealth” it is assumed the OP meant: property of value to yourself or others that can be easily moved from place-to-place with your person or household, without the knowledge of others.

    Think about what that definition means.
    Something of value.
    Moveable by one person or related persons.
    Unknown to others.

    It must be small and light enough to move easily, yet be undetectable; and,
    It must not be known or easily discoverable by others (against the owner’s wishes).

    The back end of portable wealth is that when the possessor needs it, it must be convertible into something that is needed. This means it must be accepted as “wealth” by others to whom the owner is unknown.

    Unless there is a vein of gold or platinum or pure silver running through owned land, and it can be extracted and purified without assistance or unusual equipment, others will always know of precious metal possession. List the steps and transactions to buying and holding gold. They are of no meaningful difference than buying and holding a bearer bond, or even a stock certificate.

    When considering more than a small store of wealth, the bulk of precious metals vastly increases the chance of discovery and appropriation by others. For course, in a catastrophic economic situation, nothing will be of much value except food, shelter, water, protection and social support (local community).

  • Options
    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, I too have lain awake and night, alert for every sound of an attack on beanie babies, cabbage patch kids and pogs....not to mention marbles. But, at least, having lost most of my marbles, they are not at risk.... :)

  • Options
    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 12:18PM

    @RogerB said:
    In effect, all methods of holding wealth - sheep, gold, securities, beanie babies, seal juice, or what have you - are subject to control by others, except in an isolated completely subsistence economy. This might be an extended family or is more likely a small communal society. In that situation specialized skills and basic subsistence materials such as iron, copper, flint, and quartz far out value colored rocks and minerals.

    The vast majority of subsistence economies today have been touched by the industrialized world. Most of them are well aware of the value of precious metals, gem stones, etc. Gold would represent a highly valued means to trade/barter/buy other needed items. They be happy to take a hunk of gold off your hands in exchange for a chuck of copper or iron. Now try the same trick in downtown Los Angeles and you can't force a 1 oz AGE on most of the people for free...they'd rather take a candy bar instead of the US Mint gold coin.

    Considering that the nation's largest half dozen or so banks (TBTF) are responsible for over 60% of economic activity/commerce, if it goes through them (ie gold buying, leasing, trading, speculating) then it's probably commerce.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Options
    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was lucky - I seemingly never did have the full complement of marbles - so there was less to worry about.

  • Options
    RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agreed. Value is related to the perceptions and "needs" of the beholder.

    You can sustain yourself and family by use of iron, copper, flint and quartz (and maybe some toilet paper). But without external trade, all 'precious' metals are too soft for any use....well fishing weights, that counts. ;)

  • Options
    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 12:23PM

    @roadrunner said:

    @RogerB said:
    In effect, all methods of holding wealth - sheep, gold, securities, beanie babies, seal juice, or what have you - are subject to control by others, except in an isolated completely subsistence economy. This might be an extended family or is more likely a small communal society. In that situation specialized skills and basic subsistence materials such as iron, copper, flint, and quartz far out value colored rocks and minerals.

    The vast majority of subsistance economies today have been touched by the industrialized world. Most of them are well aware of the value of precious metals, gem stones, etc. Gold would represent a highly valued means to trade/barter/buy other needed items. They be happy to take a hunk of gold off your hands in exchange for a chuck of copper or iron. Now try the same trick in downtown Los Angeles and you can't force a 1 oz AGE on most of the people...they'd rather take a candy bar instead of the US Mint gold coin.

    The number of falsehoods that are told about gold and silver are legion. The precious metals should be part of a diversified savings plan.

  • Options
    roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 12:38PM

    Gold is something of value, moveable by one person, unknown to others, and easily portable up to several dozen one ounce coins. If you're driving around or on horse back, you can up that number to hundreds of ounces. None of my neighbors know that I own some rare coins and/or precious metals. Why should they? In all but the complete anarchy scenario (or asteroid hit) there will be trading/exchanging of portable wealth items like PMs. In the catastrophe scenario, those stockpiled with food, water, shelter, weapons and ammo, cigs, medical supplies, etc. will soon be known to your neighbors...and they will come for it. No matter how much ammo you have, they will eventually come with more. So congrats on lasting a few more days or a couple weeks than your neighbors in the Armageddon scenario. Fwiw, the 1930's Great Depression was an economic catastrophe....and those who had gold did just fine with it....at least up until spring 1933 when FDR issued his gold executive order. One of the very best performing assets during the 1933-1936 depression? Homestake Gold Mining Co. which increased in price 4X-6X as I recall (later merged with Barrick Gold in 2002). The govt could ask for your physical gold...but not your gold miners.

    There is a huge difference in holding a bearer bond, or even a stock certificate vs. bullion. Those first 2 are illiquid in many scenarios (such as a sustained loss of power/internet). Gold was easily bartered thousands of years ago....before the advent of "paper" and debt-money assets used today. Gold still works today. Social support might become the worst enemy for those that are prepared for a catastrophe. The ones that will fare better will be members of looting gangs. What's yours....is eventually theirs.

    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • Options
    BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2017 12:33PM

    You put your hundreds and hundreds of ounces of gold on your horse?

    Poor horsie!

  • Options
    mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't think coin collecting is doomed or dying.
    It would be unrealistic to not notice the demographics of the "average" coin collector, say one who may spend anywhere from $100 a year to $5,000 a year on their hobby.
    Definitely getting older....but so is our nation as a whole.
    I think the concept of collecting is simply changing, but not dying.
    The "hole-filling" mentality of many older collectors is being replaced by more eclectic, ever-changing interests and collecting ideas.
    This may stem in part because of the explosion of information, and/or shortened attention spans of younger collectors.
    I am not putting younger collectors down---it's just that people aged 35 years or less (or about that age) seem to see the world through a different lens than us older fogies.
    We waited for the latest issues of the Red Book, Coin World or Graysheet to come out.
    Now it's all a click away.....seconds away.

  • Options
    shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,445 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don't believe that gold or silver is the end all, be all in a doomsday scenario, but would add this. You can walk into any bazaar in the world and spend one of three things 1) gold, 2) US $100 bills, 3) American Express travelers checks. Why are travelers checks still printed (although the vast majority are on cards)? Because there are many places in the world where card terminals do not work on a regular schedule, the networks go down, electricity is sporadic, etc. On US $100 bills, the US government has no idea where most of the $100 bills are, they are the preferred "mattress" currency for the world, it is believed that 70% are offshore. That's also why the US $100 is a major target for offshore counterfeiting.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • Options
    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,893 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 8, 2017 8:17AM

    @shorecoll said:
    I don't believe that gold or silver is the end all, be all in a doomsday scenario, but would add this. You can walk into any bazaar in the world and spend one of three things 1) gold, 2) US $100 bills, 3) American Express travelers checks.

    I don't think coin dealers or many others take gold as payment. It would be nice but I don't think it happens, at least in US bazaars.

  • Options
    Golden1Golden1 Posts: 208 ✭✭✭

    Turns out Millennials are big on coin collecting!

    Meet The Millennials Saving For Retirement Using Bitcoin
    Diana Crandall , CONTRIBUTOR

    Opinions expressed by Forbes Contributors are their own.

    From billionaire investor Mike Novogratz to celebrities like Ashton Kutcher and Paris Hilton, bitcoin is increasingly becoming part of a mainstream investor’s wallet. It made bonafide millionaires out of those who took a bite early, and while discussions about the concept of an unregulated digital payment system rage on, there are a group of millennials who are thinking about a cashless future — and putting their money where their thumbs are.

    They’re part of a different 1%, the small number of Americans who’ve not only heard of bitcoin, but are buying, selling, and trading it on their smart phones and laptops. What’s more, some millennials are using bitcoin as the basis for their long-term savings. And experts say that could shake the foundation that this country’s financial institutions have built their empires on.

    Roshaan Khan, a 20-year-old senior at Virginia Commonwealth University, is one of those millennials. Khan recently invested in bitcoin and ethereum — another form of cryptocurrency — and is encouraging his friends to do the same.

    “All of my net worth is in cryptocurrencies, because I see them as the best way to escalate my ability to be financially secure and pay off my student loans,” Khan said. “I like the idea of decentralization, the fact that there’s a lot less corruption and political ties. That idea appeals to me … Not having to go through banks. Having financial control over our lives again.”

    Andreas M. Antonopoulos, the author of Mastering Bitcoin and The Internet of Money, is familiar with this mistrust. He says that the concept of money on the internet isn’t only obvious and appealing to millennials — it’s the one system, he argues, that hasn’t betrayed them.

    “When you talk to millennials who have been thoroughly disappointed by every single social institution -- the government, the church, the politics, the parties -- they can’t trust anyone anymore,” Antonopoulos said. “They remember 2008, because it was the first big crash they’ve had, and many millennials have been unable to find work. They watched no bankers go to jail.”

    Now that it’s time for them to start pushing around coins, millennials are choosing to do it digitally -- and on their own terms.

    “It feels better to run my own savings plan by investing and reinvesting in new technology,” said Emil Thorsplass, a 24-year-old musician from Norway. “I still have my regular pension fund and my bills still have to be paid through a bank account, but cryptocurrency investments have become a central part of saving for me.”

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/dianacrandall/2017/09/13/meet-the-millennials-saving-for-retirement-using-bitcoin/#249f79b070fa

  • Options
    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,637 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The last couple shows attended sales off. But good buying opportunities. Coin collecting has moved considerably to the internet / online.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • Options
    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Coin collecting is alive and well.... as is politics. Although politics has always been an influence on coins, and in some past campaigns a large issue... it is not currently a big player in the hobby. The venues of collecting are changing though.... the internet is a huge source of buying and selling coins. Shows still do well, but B&M shops, without an internet presence may be hurting. The BST here does well.... just another source of coin movement. The hobby is not dying... and there are plenty of younger collectors and dealers on the road to old age and mustard stains. Cheers, RickO

  • Options
    oldstandardoldstandard Posts: 387 ✭✭✭

    I do not get the flag ok let me be clear I do not get why someone would flag a discussion on this board not the American flag. I could never be offended I just move on pay no attention it is the best way and some good can come from not so good situations.

Leave a Comment

BoldItalicStrikethroughOrdered listUnordered list
Emoji
Image
Align leftAlign centerAlign rightToggle HTML viewToggle full pageToggle lights
Drop image/file