PCGS is Looking for Opinions on "VideoView"

Kyle · September 12, 2017 5:36PM

Haven't seen this posted here yet, so thought I would share the video.

The existing TrueView service is great, and as the saying goes a picture is worth a thousand words but It's hard to compete with a video. I think this is a step in the right direction for PCGS since videos portray the look of a coin more accurately. I'd love to see PCGS implement this service in addition to their TrueView images.

I think the name can use a little work, PCGS "LiveView" has a better ring to it, in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y58ozQiHXhE

JohnF · September 12, 2017 5:54PM

I like it!

CascadeChris · September 12, 2017 6:08PM

I think @messydesk may have suggested this a while ago.

cameonut2011 · September 12, 2017 6:11PM

I love it. If it is reasonably priced, this is a service I would use especially with rainbow toners.

Zoins · September 12, 2017 6:28PM

It looks great!

It would be awesome to have an animated TrueView image too!

TommyType · September 12, 2017 6:41PM

At the very least....it would be nice to capture some of the "classic rarities" this way for posterity.....(and for those of us who will never actually hold them).

messydesk · September 12, 2017 8:34PM

Looks nice!

AUandAG · September 12, 2017 8:36PM

Luster capture! Hypnotic! Do think I'd use it on some of my dollars!

bob

leothelyon · September 12, 2017 8:39PM

Hey........rotating lights! Interesting......

CascadeChris · September 12, 2017 9:06PM

That is pretty darn cool. Its so mesmerizing I keep coming back to check it out. This service can very well be a hit.

cameonut2011 · September 12, 2017 9:08PM

How can I order this service?

CascadeChris · September 12, 2017 9:08PM

Oh and @AuroraBorealis, the forum humbly requests you have your entire collection done, please.

Kyle · September 12, 2017 9:17PM

@cameonut2011 said:
How can I order this service?

It's not an official service yet, just something they are thinking about I guess.

Numiven · September 12, 2017 9:41PM

IMO, its beautiful.

Phil had asked for inputs in intagram 2 weeks ago, everyone loved it.

A year ago, I tried something very close, where I stacked several images with various lighting effects into one like this. I need to perfect it.

jwitten · September 12, 2017 9:42PM

I think it would be nice if the rotation changed directions a couple times, instead of one direction the whole time

morgandollar1878 · September 12, 2017 10:01PM

This will be great for toners maybe cameo proofs too. Big question is the cost of the service. I cant see it being cost effective for anything under $500, maybe even closer to $1k.

panexpoguy · September 13, 2017 2:02AM

It is cool. I could see it being very popular for gold and toners.

BuffaloIronTail · September 13, 2017 5:59AM

Great............but it's not for me.

Pete

oih82w8 · September 13, 2017 6:40AM

This service appears to have possibilities!

Unknown · September 13, 2017 6:56AM

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messydesk · September 13, 2017 7:15AM

One thing I have found when doing this is that you have to get try and duplicate what you do when you look at a lustrous coin in hand. Typically, I will tip the coin back and forth, so I see a much faster flash than what is shown. The slow version has its place, too, but doesn't give the same feeling of what you'd see in hand.

I considered the video vs. GIF issue when doing this. I wanted a result that could be e-mailed, and a GIF with 6 frames at 600x600 going back and forth seemed to be the sweet spot for luster effect, image quality, and file size, especially if you have a large, still image to go along with it. Video files of that size didn't give the same quality, and there was always the issue with someone receiving such a file not having the right version of the right codec available. While that issue doesn't seem as pervasive today as it has been in the past, I still cringe when someone is showing a PowerPoint presentation and they go to play an embedded video.

Good to see PCGS catching up.

Unknown · September 13, 2017 7:18AM

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TwoSides2aCoin · September 13, 2017 7:31AM

They've rendered my opinion useless. That's why I submitted, in the first place. Nobody trusted mine.

mrstevesloan · September 13, 2017 9:06AM

Hi everyone - thanks for sharing your feedback, and we're happy with the largely positive response!

I see a lot of questions on pricing. If TrueView is currently $10 (and included with the $5 Secure fee), what would you be willing to pay for this videography service, per coin?

Thank you,
Steve
PCGS Marketing

TommyType · September 13, 2017 9:31AM

@FadeToBlack said:
If I'm a betting man, the lights don't move, the coin moves. It's then stabilized in post-editing, I've been messing with something similar, finally found a solid stabilization option last night. Now it's just a matter of figuring out how to improve the stabilization, which is probably just a matter of mastering the software and understanding how it works. As somebody new to video editing and using incredibly complex tools, that's going to take time.

I was thinking the same thing....

But I think the camera is mounted to the same "turntable" that the coin is sitting on. It would negate the need to do any rotation or manipulation after doing the video. (The difficulty then becomes the mechanical issue of tangling cords, but if the camera needs nothing more than power, and maybe a data path out, then that's not impossible to overcome. I'm familiar with a lot of Navy rotating "things", and slip-ring electrical connections).

Unknown · September 13, 2017 9:58AM

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1630Boston · September 13, 2017 9:58AM

Perhaps for some coins and not for others
I don't think I have any use for this service but I'm sure many others would JMO

nencoin · September 13, 2017 10:11AM

I like it.

crazyhounddog · September 13, 2017 10:36AM

Actually I'm doing the same thing with a solar powered turntable. I like the rotating lights better. You don't get as dizzy.

jwitten · September 13, 2017 10:48AM

@mrstevesloan said:
Hi everyone - thanks for sharing your feedback, and we're happy with the largely positive response!

I see a lot of questions on pricing. If TrueView is currently $10 (and included with the $5 Secure fee), what would you be willing to pay for this videography service, per coin?

Thank you,
Steve
PCGS Marketing

Tough to say. It's neat, but not life changing or anything. Maybe another $10-$20?

northcoin · September 13, 2017 11:13AM

I like the idea but it would be nice to see some alternatives (speed and lighting) to choose from in the way the coin is presented. Maybe more pausing at different points like we get when the obverse view switches to the reverse.

jwitten · September 13, 2017 11:38AM

I think an even better option would be to format it where the user can "tilt" or "slide" the rotation ourselves, at our own speed and direction we choose. Have a little toggle on the bottom we can drag back and forth.

ModCrewman · September 13, 2017 11:42AM

I think the sample video is too long. I'm inclined to think 10-15 seconds per side would be adequate. (It looks like it takes about 15 seconds to do one full rotation of the light around the coin. As easy as it is to rewind and replay the video, I don't think there would be any reason to go around more than once.

To some extent we've become spoiled with having TrueView's available for only $5 more. I'm thinking maybe a $10-15 range would be about right.

Maybe $10 if added to a TV and $15 if a la carte?

I guess that was an incomplete thought...why would anyone ever do a la carte at that pricing?

Maybe it would be $20 for Secure with video, $10 for just TrueView, and $15 for just video?

Another incomplete thought...that essentially amounts to just $15 for the video regardless with no bundling savings.

Maybe to additionally promote the Secure service level the price of a stand alone TrueView goes to $12-15, $15 for stand alone video, and $20 for Secure with both.

PCGSPhoto · September 13, 2017 11:49AM

One thing that concerns me when it comes to other movements is that it would mean doing specific movements on a coin-by-coin basis. Which way to angle the coin and at what time? How long to keep it in a specific position on the coin? What should the movement of a coin animated onscreen look like? A twist? A wobble? A wave? Experiments I've done in this regard have looked a little unearthly once smoothed out.

Let's take a look at this next example that was made live today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyiGfeIPkoU

(There are things that I still need to perfect or course, looking at it on a huge computer monitor just now)

However, if I download it onto my iPhone:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vtcg47k6nkuotas/wheat.mp4?dl=0
I can open up the video in Photos, and I can scrub through the timeline of the video with my finger, going and back and forth with the light's movement very smoothly, or stop it at my leisure to look at a specific point. I find this preferable.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback so far!

ModCrewman · September 13, 2017 11:56AM

What does it look like on a cameo proof @PCGSPhoto ?

Specifically, it would be great to see it on a PR65 or so to see how or if hairlines show up.

Peace_dollar88 · September 13, 2017 12:06PM

WOW!

Peace_dollar88 · September 13, 2017 12:06PM

I think this would be a great addition to the grading service!

PCGSPhoto · September 13, 2017 12:17PM

@ModCrewman said:
What does it look like on a cameo proof @PCGSPhoto ?

Specifically, it would be great to see it on a PR65 or so to see how or if hairlines show up.

I've made a number of examples of different kinds of coins, but I don't want to put too many public at this time. I will PM you an example.

TwoSides2aCoin · September 13, 2017 12:18PM

it's cool technology, and it does offer a view of the coin in ways that most of us who collect like to see it. But we need a tilt button, too.

oih82w8 · September 13, 2017 12:28PM

I think that $10 shot be about right for this service.

Kyle · September 13, 2017 12:32PM

Seems like the consensus on price right now is $10-$20 for the video, which seems fair. I don't know if I would opt for this option if it was much more than that.

1630Boston · September 13, 2017 12:34PM

I would agree that the video was too long

tradedollarnut · September 13, 2017 12:48PM

Ok so I really like the second one with the Lincoln - the first one with the Morgan just seemed odd. I think the difference is you can see a bit of the tilt with the Lincoln so it seems lifelike. The Morgan is flat so it seems fake.

$25 seems about right for this expanded service

TommyType · September 13, 2017 1:02PM

I like the Lincoln vid better too. It looks more like a coin would look if I were holding and rotating it. (The Morgan looked like it was on a merry-go-round).

MonsterCoinz · September 13, 2017 1:42PM

$20.

It would help to know the format so we would know where it could be seen (forums, phone, website?).

Kyle · September 13, 2017 2:57PM

@tradedollarnut said:
Ok so I really like the second one with the Lincoln - the first one with the Morgan just seemed odd. I think the difference is you can see a bit of the tilt with the Lincoln so it seems lifelike. The Morgan is flat so it seems fake.

I noticed that as well, the Morgan dollar seems to have a lot of shadows, where as the Lincoln is more evenly lit.

ironmanl63 · September 13, 2017 3:55PM

$10 would be a great price. I would probably pay $15. If more than that I would probably only have certain coins videoed.

lkeigwin · September 13, 2017 4:26PM

Definitely onto something here. It's very trick but it makes the coin look eerily alive...molten...like looking into a pot of wriggly worms.

I'd favor a view that simulates a coin being tilted under steady lighting so it resembles an in-hand perspective. More along the lines of what messydesk has shown us.
Lance.

messydesk · September 13, 2017 5:57PM

Just tested generating an MP4 file alongside an animated GIF. File size is smaller than the GIF using x264 video codec at pretty high quality compression and it looks pretty darn good. I have to figure out how to make it automatically loop forever on playback, but I assume that's a minor detail. Of course, MP4 files don't embed as nicely as GIFs, and it appears I can't show it here without creating a YouTube account and uploading it. That's the other reason I went with GIFs at first. They're easier for the end user to use.

Here's a link to the file if you want to download and watch.

jwitten · September 13, 2017 6:50PM

@messydesk said:
Just tested generating an MP4 file alongside an animated GIF. File size is smaller than the GIF using x264 video codec at pretty high quality compression and it looks pretty darn good. I have to figure out how to make it automatically loop forever on playback, but I assume that's a minor detail. Of course, MP4 files don't embed as nicely as GIFs, and it appears I can't show it here without creating a YouTube account and uploading it. That's the other reason I went with GIFs at first. They're easier for the end user to use.

Here's a link to the file if you want to download and watch.

Needs a few more pictures thrown in to really get the motion down, but I like the back and forth movement of yours better than a continual circle like the pcgs ones.

ms70 · September 13, 2017 6:55PM

What, no cool background music???

Well it is interesting to say the least.... I think it would be a great marketing tool for high end coins. Yeah, the name needs to be something catchier.

PCGS is Looking for Opinions on "VideoView"

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