@messydesk said:
Just tested generating an MP4 file alongside an animated GIF. File size is smaller than the GIF using x264 video codec at pretty high quality compression and it looks pretty darn good. I have to figure out how to make it automatically loop forever on playback, but I assume that's a minor detail. Of course, MP4 files don't embed as nicely as GIFs, and it appears I can't show it here without creating a YouTube account and uploading it. That's the other reason I went with GIFs at first. They're easier for the end user to use.
Needs a few more pictures thrown in to really get the motion down, but I like the back and forth movement of yours better than a continual circle like the pcgs ones.
With the current file size being 1.7 MB, I have room to add pictures to the loop. The image I uploaded uses 6 different frames. The equivalent GIF is 3.2 MB.
In the minority here, but I'm not crazy about it. Definitely cutting edge and interesting. But the benefit to me in a video of a coin is seeing the width of the cartwheel luster, and this does not capture it. Because of that, I prefer the old Heritage videos.
Some refer to overgraded slabs as Coffins. I like to think of them as Happy Coins.
Omg! The 1889 $1 video makes it look like the coin is burning/vaporizing feeling rather than luster/cartwheel etc..especially on the reverse... this is how I feel with my eyes...
@Kyle said:
A couple more examples videos posted on the PCGS YouTube channel:
@jwitten said:
I think an even better option would be to format it where the user can "tilt" or "slide" the rotation ourselves, at our own speed and direction we choose. Have a little toggle on the bottom we can drag back and forth.
I think this is a great idea, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to do with coins. I've seen this with models of cars but that is more like a 3D model with computer lighting (like Pixar movies) than a coin where real photos would be nice.
@messydesk said:
Just tested generating an MP4 file alongside an animated GIF. File size is smaller than the GIF using x264 video codec at pretty high quality compression and it looks pretty darn good. I have to figure out how to make it automatically loop forever on playback, but I assume that's a minor detail. Of course, MP4 files don't embed as nicely as GIFs, and it appears I can't show it here without creating a YouTube account and uploading it. That's the other reason I went with GIFs at first. They're easier for the end user to use.
Needs a few more pictures thrown in to really get the motion down, but I like the back and forth movement of yours better than a continual circle like the pcgs ones.
Agree moving in both directions is nice. It simulates rotating a coin in hand more.
@messydesk said:
Just tested generating an MP4 file alongside an animated GIF. File size is smaller than the GIF using x264 video codec at pretty high quality compression and it looks pretty darn good. I have to figure out how to make it automatically loop forever on playback, but I assume that's a minor detail. Of course, MP4 files don't embed as nicely as GIFs, and it appears I can't show it here without creating a YouTube account and uploading it. That's the other reason I went with GIFs at first. They're easier for the end user to use.
@Ronyahski said:
In the minority here, but I'm not crazy about it. Definitely cutting edge and interesting. But the benefit to me in a video of a coin is seeing the width of the cartwheel luster, and this does not capture it. Because of that, I prefer the old Heritage videos.
Agree the Heritage videos make the cartwheel luster pop like you expect holding it in hand.
.
.
So far I prefer the stationary coin views more. But that could change depending on technique and it may vary by design and surface characteristics.
Can you do the same Buffalo as a stationary view for comparison. Also, IMO, the Buffalo obverse comes out better in the motion view than the reverse. Maybe lighting angles would need to vary by design. I would like to see the luster sweep more strongly across the Buffalo reverse the way they do in person.
In the flat views, I was able to correctly match the grade the 1797 $2.50 before finding it on Coinfacts. Did not check the other ones yet. Had trouble at first with the 1797 obverse. Would it happen to be PL or at least more PL compared to the reverse? PL surfaces could make a difference in the lighting angles that work best.
Once best ways of doing these are determined, it might end up being worth offering different options of "VideoView" styles for submitters to choose from, or even option to buy them all. It looks like different ways are going to be preferred by different people. I'm guessing there would be at least 3 or more categories, the flat view; the coin changing direction and more to be determined.
.
.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
The two different styles on the Buffalo really make a big difference. In my opinion, that design may be too high relief to have the "movement" version be effective. I do definitely prefer the shorter videos.
Do you have an example of what this would look like on a rainbow toned proof coin? would it capture the various shades or blue, green, gold, etc? in still shots they look dull, but in hand and rotating the coin, they look like gym stone. A video that captured the true beauty of the coin would be a great service.
Looking at all the different 'videos' presented, I would say this provides an enhanced evaluation of a coin that the two dimensional TruView does not provide. Certainly we can now evaluate luster/cartwheel effect. The initial video of the Buff nickel created a bit of 'dizziness' it seems... perhaps a tad slower as depicted later. Overall, this is a very positive evolution in visual coin evaluation and I applaud the addition of this service. Cheers, RickO
@SeatedToners said:
Do you have an example of what this would look like on a rainbow toned proof coin? would it capture the various shades or blue, green, gold, etc? in still shots they look dull, but in hand and rotating the coin, they look like gym stone. A video that captured the true beauty of the coin would be a great service.
This illustrates the difficulty in setting up a one-size-fits-all rig for doing this. Just as different coins need different lighting for a static picture, the need different lighting paths for a video. The paths used for the luster on a Morgan dollar might not pick up any color or flash on a proof seated dollar or half cent that looks gray or brown until you get just the right lighting angle. Whenever I make one of these animated images, I have to "rehearse" the lighting path to make sure it works well. Slabs restrict my options a bit when it comes to high angles, but this won't be an issue with a raw coin.
I have seen this type of technology on high end coins in the past; what were the results in terms of customer satisfaction, how the auction company saw it, etc.?
Ah, a cure for insomnia! Cast the video on the bedroom ceiling, add a peaceful ocean breeze sound track, and blissfully drift off into sleep. Better than a lava lamp!
@Zoins said:
Great work so far! It would also be great to see this in a larger, lustrous coin like a WLH, where you typically see the luster shine in a large oval.
Thanks! I've not done a WLH so far, but I have done this Canadian Centennial dollar, they're pretty lustrous
@Zoins said:
Great work so far! It would also be great to see this in a larger, lustrous coin like a WLH, where you typically see the luster shine in a large oval.
I did this one quite a while ago, and yeah, this is an effective technique for WLHs. I wish I'd have cropped the background when making this one, though.
@PCGSPhoto I really love the concept and in my opinion the first Buffalo where the coin looks like it is actually tipping around and around rather then the "Flat" view looks the best... Not sure about the change in direction though and I think just keep the tipping in the same direction going works and looks more realistic... Awesome job and can`t wait to see it perfected... AB
@mrstevesloan said:
Hi everyone - thanks for sharing your feedback, and we're happy with the largely positive response!
I see a lot of questions on pricing. If TrueView is currently $10 (and included with the $5 Secure fee), what would you be willing to pay for this videography service, per coin?
Thank you,
Steve
PCGS Marketing
Steve,
Would it be possible to move the coin more to pick up on more details (both positive and negative)?
The rotating lights are pretty but I always get a better look at the perfection and imperfections when the lights are fixed and the coin is moved instead of the other way around. I believe your graders do the same thing by holding the coins they grade under fixed lights and moving the coins instead of placing the coin on the table and moving the light source. Hope that makes sense?
I'm sure the photography department would not like to see this post since it is much easier to video a fixed coin. However, if you can capture all of the good and bad of a coin by spending a little more time and actually video the coin in a manner that all of us could more accurately grade the coin I believe that would have much more value than simply showing a pretty cartwheel from rotating lights.
@jwitten said:
I think an even better option would be to format it where the user can "tilt" or "slide" the rotation ourselves, at our own speed and direction we choose. Have a little toggle on the bottom we can drag back and forth.
I think this is a great idea, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to do with coins. I've seen this with models of cars but that is more like a 3D model with computer lighting (like Pixar movies) than a coin where real photos would be nice.
@jwitten is right and that could be easily done. As long as PCGS is willing to invest in the proper equipment it is a technology that is used everyday in a variety of industries. Heck, even us guys in the real estate industry have adopted the technology through a camera system called matterport.
I would pay $2 for a video that shows my coins cartwheel as illustrated in this post. I would pay more if the video more accurately showed the coin.
"I really like the second one with the Lincoln - the first one with the Morgan just seemed odd. I think the difference is you can see a bit of the tilt with the Lincoln so it seems lifelike. The Morgan is flat so it seems fake."
"Maybe to additionally promote the Secure service level the price of a stand alone TrueView goes to $12-15, $15 for stand alone video, and $20 for Secure with both."
Is there anyway to create a add on to the service. As in dragging the coin in a certain direction to see the luster move as directed? Rather then a pre recorded shot? As someone mentioned a “tilt button” but great service and idea moving forward
Comments
With the current file size being 1.7 MB, I have room to add pictures to the loop. The image I uploaded uses 6 different frames. The equivalent GIF is 3.2 MB.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
In the minority here, but I'm not crazy about it. Definitely cutting edge and interesting. But the benefit to me in a video of a coin is seeing the width of the cartwheel luster, and this does not capture it. Because of that, I prefer the old Heritage videos.
A couple more examples videos posted on the PCGS YouTube channel:
Omg! The 1889 $1 video makes it look like the coin is burning/vaporizing feeling rather than luster/cartwheel etc..especially on the reverse... this is how I feel with my eyes...
Numismatics & Photography
rv@ravenumismatics.com
Instagram.com/coin2photo
I think this is a great idea, but I'm not sure how easy it would be to do with coins. I've seen this with models of cars but that is more like a 3D model with computer lighting (like Pixar movies) than a coin where real photos would be nice.
Agree moving in both directions is nice. It simulates rotating a coin in hand more.
I like the GIF option too. If PCGS offered this, it would be great to have both video and GIF options.
Agree the Heritage videos make the cartwheel luster pop like you expect holding it in hand.
This is a new, different look.
Here are some adjustments based on customer recommendations.
Radiant Collection: Numismatics and Exonumia of the Atomic Age.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/3232
.
.
So far I prefer the stationary coin views more. But that could change depending on technique and it may vary by design and surface characteristics.
Can you do the same Buffalo as a stationary view for comparison. Also, IMO, the Buffalo obverse comes out better in the motion view than the reverse. Maybe lighting angles would need to vary by design. I would like to see the luster sweep more strongly across the Buffalo reverse the way they do in person.
In the flat views, I was able to correctly match the grade the 1797 $2.50 before finding it on Coinfacts. Did not check the other ones yet. Had trouble at first with the 1797 obverse. Would it happen to be PL or at least more PL compared to the reverse? PL surfaces could make a difference in the lighting angles that work best.
Once best ways of doing these are determined, it might end up being worth offering different options of "VideoView" styles for submitters to choose from, or even option to buy them all. It looks like different ways are going to be preferred by different people. I'm guessing there would be at least 3 or more categories, the flat view; the coin changing direction and more to be determined.
.
.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
This is a more flat rendition of above for comparison.
Radiant Collection: Numismatics and Exonumia of the Atomic Age.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/3232
The two different styles on the Buffalo really make a big difference. In my opinion, that design may be too high relief to have the "movement" version be effective. I do definitely prefer the shorter videos.
I like this one a lot better. Appears to be more "3D" like, or like you actually have the coin in hand.
I prefer the first buffalo version
I'm kind of at the point where I can't pick a "favorite" technique anymore.
But the overall appeal of a video is clear to me. A better living rendition of the coins than a single photo can capture.
Guess you will never please everybody, but I much prefer the tilted coin version. It looks more realistic. Very neat achievement.
Do you have an example of what this would look like on a rainbow toned proof coin? would it capture the various shades or blue, green, gold, etc? in still shots they look dull, but in hand and rotating the coin, they look like gym stone. A video that captured the true beauty of the coin would be a great service.
Looking at all the different 'videos' presented, I would say this provides an enhanced evaluation of a coin that the two dimensional TruView does not provide. Certainly we can now evaluate luster/cartwheel effect. The initial video of the Buff nickel created a bit of 'dizziness' it seems... perhaps a tad slower as depicted later. Overall, this is a very positive evolution in visual coin evaluation and I applaud the addition of this service. Cheers, RickO
This illustrates the difficulty in setting up a one-size-fits-all rig for doing this. Just as different coins need different lighting for a static picture, the need different lighting paths for a video. The paths used for the luster on a Morgan dollar might not pick up any color or flash on a proof seated dollar or half cent that looks gray or brown until you get just the right lighting angle. Whenever I make one of these animated images, I have to "rehearse" the lighting path to make sure it works well. Slabs restrict my options a bit when it comes to high angles, but this won't be an issue with a raw coin.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
Get it at the app store- Periscope
I have seen this type of technology on high end coins in the past; what were the results in terms of customer satisfaction, how the auction company saw it, etc.?
Ah, a cure for insomnia! Cast the video on the bedroom ceiling, add a peaceful ocean breeze sound track, and blissfully drift off into sleep. Better than a lava lamp!
Great work so far! It would also be great to see this in a larger, lustrous coin like a WLH, where you typically see the luster shine in a large oval.
i really like it. i would use it for some of my coins, for sure! i am glad to see pcgs continuing to innovate and offer collectors something new.
IMO the first Buffalo video with the movement is the best I have seen so far. Really liked it!
Thanks! I've not done a WLH so far, but I have done this Canadian Centennial dollar, they're pretty lustrous
Radiant Collection: Numismatics and Exonumia of the Atomic Age.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/3232
Love the idea. I do agree that the "VideoView" name is a wee bit clunky, though.
Hope to see something like this offered at a reasonable cost, and included with Secure Plus.
I did this one quite a while ago, and yeah, this is an effective technique for WLHs. I wish I'd have cropped the background when making this one, though.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars
@PCGSPhoto @PCGS_SocialMedia - Have there been any developments on the VideoView concept? Has the idea been tanked? Coming soon?
So the way to tell if it's blast white is you sit and stare at it and it doesn't move!
Seriously though, I like it. It looks really nice!
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
http://openfolder.io/shares/videos/Hypnotoad.mp4
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
I'd like to know also.
Just got my set 100% True -viewed so what would be the upcharge?
My Saint Set
Nice concept.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
@PCGSPhoto I really love the concept and in my opinion the first Buffalo where the coin looks like it is actually tipping around and around rather then the "Flat" view looks the best... Not sure about the change in direction though and I think just keep the tipping in the same direction going works and looks more realistic... Awesome job and can`t wait to see it perfected... AB
@PCGSPhoto as an added note a water mark noting the cert# and the grade would be awesome!!!!!!
Bump
Yeah cool idea. Really helpful to evaluate luster & hairlines. Any news?
Steve,
Would it be possible to move the coin more to pick up on more details (both positive and negative)?
The rotating lights are pretty but I always get a better look at the perfection and imperfections when the lights are fixed and the coin is moved instead of the other way around. I believe your graders do the same thing by holding the coins they grade under fixed lights and moving the coins instead of placing the coin on the table and moving the light source. Hope that makes sense?
I'm sure the photography department would not like to see this post since it is much easier to video a fixed coin. However, if you can capture all of the good and bad of a coin by spending a little more time and actually video the coin in a manner that all of us could more accurately grade the coin I believe that would have much more value than simply showing a pretty cartwheel from rotating lights.
@jwitten is right and that could be easily done. As long as PCGS is willing to invest in the proper equipment it is a technology that is used everyday in a variety of industries. Heck, even us guys in the real estate industry have adopted the technology through a camera system called matterport.
I would pay $2 for a video that shows my coins cartwheel as illustrated in this post. I would pay more if the video more accurately showed the coin.
September 17, 2017
Date of the OP.
"I really like the second one with the Lincoln - the first one with the Morgan just seemed odd. I think the difference is you can see a bit of the tilt with the Lincoln so it seems lifelike. The Morgan is flat so it seems fake."
"Maybe to additionally promote the Secure service level the price of a stand alone TrueView goes to $12-15, $15 for stand alone video, and $20 for Secure with both."
Is there anyway to create a add on to the service. As in dragging the coin in a certain direction to see the luster move as directed? Rather then a pre recorded shot? As someone mentioned a “tilt button” but great service and idea
moving forward