Submitter stung by counterfeits
logger7
Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭✭✭
Ouch, mostly fake $2 1/2 gold coins: https://www.pcgs.com/Membership/sharedorder.aspx?OrderNo=21284466&Year=2017&Month=9
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Most like purchased of eBay from a Chinese Mainland based seller.
Hopefully these are Lebanese counterfeits, in which case they would at least be real gold.
I hope the submitter knows that Indian quarter eagles are the "King of the Counterfeit Gold Coin Series!" according to PCGS:
https://www.pcgs.com/News/Indian-Head-Quarter-Eagles-King-Of-The-Counterfeit-Gold-Coin
wow, I feel sorry for them
BHNC #203
A complete set of counterfeit $2 1/2.
Wow! I would love to see some pictures, to see if they are obvious fakes, or decent ones. Since this is the main series I focus on, I would actually be interested in owning a complete series of counterfeits. That's somewhat impressive in itself. Thankfully, I've gotten good enough at spotting fakes to not have any of mine come back counterfeit.
Only two no-problem coins...ouch.
Fan of the Oxford Comma
CCAC Representative of the General Public
2021 Young Numismatist of the Year
Well, on the bright side, their 1909-S VDB cent and 1932-S quarter are genuine.
15 fakes....would like to see them as well.
There's got to be more to this story. It's one thing to buy a couple counterfeit gold coins, but an entire series of $2.50 gold? If purchaser bought on eBay, he had time to take the coins to a reputable dealer for consultation. If they were bought from a dealer, he surely had a return privilege. Were they stolen? Very strange submission.
Ouch is right....that's the first thing that popped into my mind. Wonder how long it took to accumulate those (I wonder if he just made a mad purchase all at once, given the date run). Looks like he wanted to have the entire run to be consecutively numbered certs. That's GOTTA hurt!
Even with the straight-graded coins, boy, that submission is a clear 'non-winner'as (I HATE to use the word 'loser', because if it were MY sub, I'd know how I'd feel, and wouldn't want to have that word bandied about, it's bad enough to get results like that, but to have it expounded upon, that would hurt more). The only saving grace (if one can call it that) is the '09S VDB, though I'm going to guess the submittor saw a higher grade in it. I can also see that '32 S Washie being offered raw as an MS (low MS) coin in the near future. Boy, that hurts each time I look at that submission. That is one TOUGH result!
damn,
somebody needs some education of diagnostics. I feel for the submitter, many years ago when I was fresh In the business, I got stung on a group of 8 fake gold coins.
Maybe many or all were mid-century middle eastern's
Tough learning lesson there. Sympathy's to the submitter.
I think the odds of randomly buying this many counterfeits is low. I bet they bought them all at once from the same person.
I'd hope they were inherited or something. Purchased by a family member before it was so easy to have an expert opinion within a couple of hours.
With the run of consecutive dates, I'd tend to agree with this.
Thought the following in the PCGS article was interesting and a bit worse than we have here!
That is a disaster for some person.... very sad...Something such as this will likely cause the individual to leave the hobby.... Cheers, RickO
someone got burned badly by fakes
**sale
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https://photos.app.goo.gl/KCe1Nn849FDidA1z7
Complete sets of counterfeit $2.50 Indian gold have been around since the late 1960s -- maybe earlier. I've been offered at least three sets over the years with every coin a counterfeit. Long ago the sellers were often "vest pocket dealers" who had limited knowledge of the series. Now they seem to be ebay and other on-line sales products.
The ANA should be prosecuting every seller of this junk under HPA or counterfeiting laws (ANA has direct and indirect capability, respectively). Seems like a good role for an organization that claims to represent coin collectors' interests....
To add insult to injury, it was probably Express service level! $60 per coin.
What if all TPG's agreed to counterstamp counterfeits as such? That way they can never re-enter the market. It would have to be clear on submission forms as part of the TPG grading agreement.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Lawsuits!!
Defacing someone else's property, (even with the best of intentions, and all of the legalese in the world), will just mean someone will sue. Doesn't matter if PCGS is correct in their counterfeit assessment! Someone will claim they are wrong, and the courts with no real experience in the matter would probably award damages....
A better plan would be to turn all counterfeits to "the authorities"....but you would probably have a hard time finding any "authority" willing to live with the headaches involved.....
Naturally submitters would have to agree in advance with their signature as a condition of a TPG opinion.
In other words, a submitter would actually be ASKING for such to be done.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Do you mean consent to defacement as part of the submission contract?
Might remain a problems because the authentication companies, no matter how good,are careful to issue an opinion, not a ruling.
As long as the submitter agrees to the contracted service, including opinion-based stamping, I don't see a legal problem. Of course, there may be a market problem in who many people wnat to submit their coins to that service vs. one that doesn't have that stipulation.
WOW !! Hard to get happy after that one !!
a few years ago I saw a date run in NGC slabs that I suspected were all fake, slabs and coins
It would cause most people to lose their sanity!
Given how many of these gold counterfeits were made in the 1960s and 1970s, it's interesting how prevalent they still are. Seems like there is no good way to get them out of the system. I wonder how many people would take up the idea of having TPGs counterstamp the counterfeits.
Too bad. May turn them off to the hobby. I can't imagine anyone wanting a full set of counterfeits in a slab but who knows?
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Or there could be a non-mechanical way to stamp them, which would be a little annoying to remove. If certifying companies wanted to there are a lot of microprinting techniques that could be picked up by devices, on the edge, etc. as well.
They could always be made compliant with HPA - that would be the legal way.
I don't like to draw conclusions. For all we know the submitter knew they were fake but wanted to see if they could get by PCGS. It's certainly not likely though.
A thing like this can really take the sails out of a prospective newbie or could be used to show the newbie why it's important to buy TPG services products in order to protect oneself and learn grading etc. Right?