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Do You think the Jefferson Nickel is Doomed?
ambro51
Posts: 14,345 ✭✭✭✭✭
Should the Liberty Nickel be brought back? It's a banal uninsulting generic image and the V on the back would serve its original purpose, telling people who can't read "five" what the denomination is.
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It would be great to have the great designs back, but it will never happen!
How about bringing back the Shield nickel, complete with dozens of minor die varieties!
Yes vote here! I never liked the newly designed Jefferson.
Stop making new pennies and nickels.
There are already enough of them.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Drop the 5 cent nickel and bring back the 5 dollar eagle.
Replace them both with a two cent piece.
Most young people these days don't know V means 5.
The Jefferson nickel is fine... I like it...I prefer the older design, but I am ok with the new as well. Jefferson was also an incredible individual and great American citizen. Certainly worthy of commemorating on a coin. Cheers, RickO
I think that the Jefferson Nickel is doomed, but not for the reasons cited. Like the cent, it has almost no buying power, and it now costs more than 5 cents to make the 5 cent piece. Once the cent is vanquished, the nickel will be next.
As for reviving the old designs, that is only a coin collectors’ folly. Neither the Shield not the Liberty Nickel designs were admired in their time nor subsequently. Some observers have compared the Shield Nickel design to a tombstone despite the fact that it was similar to the Two Cent Piece. For whatever reason, the two cent coin is viewed more favorably. As for the Liberty Nickel, its design has always been considered bland and uninteresting.
It is likely that the Jefferson Nickel will be the last nickel.
The focus of those who protest all things Confederate may expand to include all things Jeffetson including Monticello, the Jefferson nickel and the University of Virginiia. Many are offended by the facts that Jefferson owned slaves. Dittto for George Washington.
Nobody looks down on Jefferson or Washington. They are the founders of these United States and Americans opinions of these two are not likely to change.
Many are offended by the facts that Jefferson owned slaves. Dittto for George Washington.
Do you have sources for these claims? I believe they are false.
As Bill said, Jefferson will likely be our last nickel design due to cost of manufacture and lack of buying power.
Please stay on topic.
I'm gonna disagree with you there, Sanction. You are conflating two dramatically different things. As Sellit said, Jefferson and Washington are venerated because they were founding fathers. The fact that they owned slaves is part of their history.
The issue from my standpoint is to examine what we are venerating as a public body. This can be done on a case by case basis and reasonable arguments can be made on both sides of the issue. Justice Taney's statue was recently taken down in Annapolis, Maryland, presumably because it was erected during the Jim Crow era to venerate Taney's Dred Scott decision which, in hindsight for most of us, was bad law. I don't like the fact that we are taking down statues of Supreme Court Justices, but Governor Hogan changed his mind because of the underlying basis for its erection and what it was intended to stand for, and it was the correct decision, IMO. In the end it comes down to what we as a society want to venerate.
As for the Jefferson nickel, I agree that its future will be a short one, but for the reasons stated by Bill above.
Tom
As a collectible, there are plenty to go around. As a coin, my banker tells me not to bring "change" in for deposit. She told my nephew the other day to" take 'em to CoinStar". I suppose , in light of that, I will start offering 72% of FV, in order to keep my profit margin, when collections come in. Because you know how albums full of nickels fair in the market, right ?
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Neither the cent nor five-cent coins are commercially relevant in today's U.S. economy. The days are long past when rounding up or down of a cent or two was of significance.
The reasonable approach is to stop all production of these at the end of a calendar year. No carry-forward for "collectors" or speculation. End them cleanly and openly.
Well, those would be my recommendations as Mint Director.....
I wish they were false claims, but they unfortunately are not. One prominent reverend has called for the Jefferson Memorial to be defunded, and some people have called for the destruction of Mt. Rushmore or at the very least the removal of GW and TJ. I heard on the news today that text will be added to the Jefferson Memorial addressing his slave ownership. In Chicago last week even a bust of Lincoln (!) was vandalized. Anyone can Google the stories as easily as I can if you want to inform yourself, and in any case I would not link to them here anyway.
I don't really feel comfortable discussing politics in the thread, but I assume that was the basis for the thread in the first place. The question was not if the nickel was doomed, but if the Jefferson nickel was doomed and would be replaced, presumably for political reasons.
Quite frankly, I am very surprised there has not been more controversy about our coins and banknotes in the aftermath of the statue upheaval. It is only a matter of time before some aggrieved person takes note of whose portraits are on our money. Once the drive to sanitize our history gets up to full speed, it will not stop at statues of Confederate generals.
As far as the Jefferson nickel design is concerned, I like the 2005 portrait the best, and could live with the 2005 Buffalo reverse (I would prefer the original).
When you take historical figures out of context of their time and apply you modern political dogma to them, few of them will please you. Even Lincoln made racist statements during the Lincoln - Douglas debates. When I was in undergraduate school in the late 1960s and early '70s, radical students called Lincoln a racist. Listen to the lyrics of the song from the musical "Hair" written in 1967. I don't remember the title, but I recall part of the words.
You should learn from history not destroy it. My fear is that the monuments will be first and then it will be museums and the history books. One mark of totalitarian regimes, both left and right, is a re-writing of history. Tolerance of and learning from the past are virtues; political extremism and hatred are not.
I thought it was domed.
bob;)
These days, only Romans and a minority of Americans know what "V" stands for.............
Maybe slowly reduce production quantities of the penny & nickel & slowly phase out, while also being a last-gasp boon to collectors......
And, while you're at it, stop production ENTIRELY of any coins that are no longer being circulated at face (JFK half, Prez/NA dollar).........
Years ago, I thought a solution was to bring back the half-dime sized piece to replace the penny and nickel. But that would never go now. Probably best to get rid of the penny and replace the nickel with nickel-plated steel like Canada did (until inflation and vending machines make it no longer feasible, too).
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
Pennies and nickels are workhorse of the economy, and until the baby boomer generation & their parents are long, long gone, they will be made, not for economical, or practical reasons, but for politically ones.
I seriously doubt at this time that it will be changed to Jefferson DAVIS !!!
As far as I know these programs make a net profit for the Treasury, so I am not sure what the benefit is of shutting them down.
I am not necessarily saying this could not or should not be done, but if it is done, the ability to weed out foreign coins of similar size to our coins would become impossible. For example, the coin counting machines at my banks use magnets to stop the steel coins from going into the counting mechanism. If that feature is eliminated, then all Canadian coins will be counted and not rejected or held back. (Same issue for vending machines.) I think we are one of the few countries that has no coins that are magnetic.
I don't think that a half dime sized copper-nickel coin ever was viable option. Even in the early to mid 19th century there were issues about the size of the half dime, and once the nickel came on the scene in 1866, the half dime faded from view by 1873.
There was also the issue of re-tooling for the vending machine industry, if the five cent coin had a place there. The vending machine issue has always been a major issue. Even as far back as 1913 there were debates as whether the Buffalo Nickel would work properly in pay telephones. The reason that we have the clad coinage today was because it limited the re-tooling that was necessary for the vending machines.
Get rid of the cent and the nickel completely except for those that would be strictly for collectors, such in proof sets. Make the cent in those out of the old copper alloy.
I totally agree with everything written here by Bill. This has got to stop. Damaging anything should put the persons responsible behind bars for a good long time.
The next change for the 5c coin will be discontinuance of the denomination.
So when Germany removed all Nazi statues after WW2 and even passed laws outlawing them, did they destroy or rewrite history? I don't think so.
When the French revolted in 1789 and replaced the statues of the monarchy, was the history of the French monarchy erased? This type of thing happens regularly when governments or peoples priorities, beliefs or heroes change.
Sometimes it's appropriate to redecorate, even when those being honored aren't as extreme as Nazis.
Jefferson will always be remembered by all those millions of Jefferson Nickels struck since 1938, at the very least. I believe that those will be common and available for centuries to come.
You are incorrect.
Both Washington and Jefferson owned slaves.
My prior post to this thread simply pointed out that with what is going on today in the area of protesting aspects of American history (resulting in the removal of historical items, such as statutes of Robert E. Lee), it is possible that the protests will expand to cover items associated with TJ, GW, other founding fathers, etc. simply because they owned slaves.
I disagree with things and actions which erase history and/or rewrite same.
I am not sure I understand the comparison to Nazi Germany or Revolutionary France (and let's throw in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe). All of those cases involved a war that had just ended - an enemy or ideology was defeated or overthrown. What we have going on in the US now is nothing like that. Statues that did not cause a stir for a hundred years (many were put up in the 1920s) are suddenly surrounded by hysteria.
And there will be no end to it. Christopher Columbus is a target, as are various street names around the country. And I guarantee that coin designs will be made an issue of at some point - It is only a question of when....
IMHO, I think the dead Presidents theme is overdue for a serious change.
For no other reason then it's time for a change after several decades of the same old tired coins.
100+ yrs for Lincoln....
Later, Paul.
On one point, I don't think 10 regular people in MD knew who Taney was, until the decision to remove him.
There's a lot of nasty stuff in the history books about dead Presidents. Someone correct me ( I know you will), but I think Andrew Jackson got a Congressional gold medal for killing every man, woman and child in a Native American tribe...and no that's not what it says on the medal, you have to read the backstory.
It's time redesign all circulating coinage. It's time for cent and nickel be eliminated
I don't think the Jefferson Nickel is going anywhere, it's here to stay.
Do what Mexico did. I was on vacation in Mexico in the 90's and over nite they moved the decimal point 2 places on the currency . My 100 peso was now 1 new peso. That was a interesting trip.
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One solution that keeps people on coins is to just move all the denominations up by a factor of 10:
Such a move would create an unneeded and unnecessary crisis in The United Sates that would look like an act of desperation. The main motivation for doing something like is to adjust the domestic currency because of massive inflation. There is no need to do that here since our inflation has been less dramatic. Our inflation has made the cent and nickel obsolete over time, however.
Not yet. 😂 🤣 😉 👍
Wow , I didn't realize how far this post went back until I seen Ricko in it !
Not my cup of tea.
At least FIVE CENTS has a V in it
How about the 3 cent nickel, wouldn't that solve everything?
I think that the classics should be revisited on all denominations. Similar to the State Quarter program that began in 1999.
The nickel does cost more to make for the denomination, but would imagine the loss is made up with the production of dimes, quarters, half dollars and dollars.
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The direction of this thread differs from what I expected. Sadly, the nickel will likely follow the fate of the cent. Eventually all coins, but future generations may see coins of higher denomination for a time. Then extinction.
If only our government had any sense at all they would enact a law making it illegal to export American nickels and then change to a Buffalo nickel (my personal preference) and make loads of them, the public would hold the strategic nickel and copper reserves instead of the massive cost of the government doing it. But they can't think outside the box, the one time seniorage hit would be a lot cheaper than the cost of maintaining some giant piles of copper and nickel somewhere. And so what if the value of the metals go up, that would benefit the Americans who helped maintain the stockpiles. I know, I'm insane.
A dollars worth of coins in every denomination. Oddly the nickel carries the most intrinsic value of all our coins. How dumbed down are we ?
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Even in 2017, the nickel cost more than 11c to produce, not including the cost of shlepping this worthless token around to make change. .
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Although they minted loads of cents, they will end up losing more seniorage in total from the additional nickels used it would seem. I mean I really don't use cash, but the Mint has been wrestling with these issues for a long time. The 2014 Technical report that you can download spends a lot of time on alternate materials and worries a lot about the vending machine industry and using stainless steel being a huge issue for them due to the magnet detection to thwart people using washers for coins.
A nickel isn't really worthless: It merely ties up more wealth than it exchanges so is less than useless. Five cents is still a tiny amount of money and provides a means to bridge the gap between a quarter and a dime. They just need to be recalled and recoined in a small piece of aluminum, aluminum bronze, or bronze, The program would actually produce a substantial profit for the government. A small bronze coin can be made for less than 3c.