Between those two examples previously posted in this thread I would** most definitely **choose the Amwld piece. For how much more cost is a question I am not willing to go into, being that my barber half collection is at a few grades lower level of preservation. By the way, one of my latest pieces came from the OP.
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
@Wabbit2313 said:
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
@Wabbit2313 said:
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
Your sig line may be betraying you -- the Heritage example being discussed is the furthest thing from being a victim of a "knife fight" -- on the obverse bust, or otherwise.
@Wabbit2313 said:
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
Your sig line may be betraying you -- the Heritage example being discussed is the furthest thing from being a victim of a "knife fight" -- on the obverse bust, or otherwise.
You guys do know those are just normal circulation lines I hope? When a coin has the original dirt, like this one, it is exaggerated. When a coin has been cleaned, like the OP coin, the lines are not as visible, but they are there. The shine on the original coin gives it away. Probably an MS70 rub or similar, or perhaps a really old scrub that PCGS looked the other way on..
You are un frickin believable! Go look at my listing! My pictures are larger than the Heritage images. There is not a single coin among my 9 sets of Barber Half's that have "circulation lines" like the heritage coin! You have finally earned a disagree from me!
@Wabbit2313 said:
You guys do know those are just normal circulation lines I hope? When a coin has the original dirt, like this one, it is exaggerated. When a coin has been cleaned, like the OP coin, the lines are not as visible, but they are there. The shine on the original coin gives it away. Probably an MS70 rub or similar, or perhaps a really old scrub that PCGS looked the other way on..
@Wabbit2313 said:
You guys do know those are just normal circulation lines I hope? When a coin has the original dirt, like this one, it is exaggerated. When a coin has been cleaned, like the OP coin, the lines are not as visible, but they are there. The shine on the original coin gives it away. Probably an MS70 rub or similar, or perhaps a really old scrub that PCGS looked the other way on.
I have seen plenty of circulated coins that don't have these. I disagree with your characterization, but even if you were right, the marks are post mint made and severely limit eye appeal. I would expect coins like that to trade at a discount.
@Wabbit2313 said:
You guys do know those are just normal circulation lines I hope? When a coin has the original dirt, like this one, it is exaggerated. When a coin has been cleaned, like the OP coin, the lines are not as visible, but they are there. The shine on the original coin gives it away. Probably an MS70 rub or similar, or perhaps a really old scrub that PCGS looked the other way on.
I have seen plenty of circulated coins that don't have these. I disagree with your characterization, but even if you were right, the marks are post mint made and severely limit eye appeal. I would expect coins like that to trade at a discount.
I highly expect if I owned that particular coin you might try and use any leverage for a discount, but it wouldn't wash with me. Still would much rather have this particular example (the Heritage coin) vs. a classic "soaped and watered long ago" job.
@Wabbit2313 said:
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
Your sig line may be betraying you -- the Heritage example being discussed is the furthest thing from being a victim of a "knife fight" -- on the obverse bust, or otherwise.
My opinion (politely) stands. The Heritage example being discussed is more appealing to me than the particular coin of yours.
@Wabbit2313 said:
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
Your sig line may be betraying you -- the Heritage example being discussed is the furthest thing from being a victim of a "knife fight" -- on the obverse bust, or otherwise.
My opinion (politely) stands. The Heritage example being discussed is more appealing to me than the particular coin of yours.
@Wabbit2313 said:
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
Your sig line may be betraying you -- the Heritage example being discussed is the furthest thing from being a victim of a "knife fight" -- on the obverse bust, or otherwise.
My opinion (politely) stands. The Heritage example being discussed is more appealing to me than the particular coin of yours.
To each their own. Again, we are judging by obverse images only here (I would turn down either coin if it had a bruised rim on the reverse -- hate bruised rims) but I highly prefer original gray/grey circ surfaces vs. gray surfaces with the classic "old coin sheen" marketed sometimes as "soap and watered long ago." That's what I see and stand by, having no skin in either coin. Some of my Barbers are "perfect" circs -- some are not (but I tolerate them as they are the best I could find within budget at a certain place and time.)
@Wabbit2313 said:
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
Your sig line may be betraying you -- the Heritage example being discussed is the furthest thing from being a victim of a "knife fight" -- on the obverse bust, or otherwise.
My opinion (politely) stands. The Heritage example being discussed is more appealing to me than the particular coin of yours.
To each their own. Again, we are judging by obverse images only here (I would turn down either coin if it had a bruised rim on the reverse -- hate bruised rims) but I highly prefer original gray/grey circ surfaces vs. gray surfaces with the classic "old coin sheen" marketed sometimes as "soap and watered long ago." That's what I see and stand by, having no skin in either coin. Some of my Barbers are "perfect" circs -- some are not (but I tolerate them as they are the best I could find within budget at a certain place and time.)
I also see the sheen on your coin, a classic old cleaning or newer MS-70 job. The HA coin looks original, and you can even see some dirt on her. Not sure how you can speak for everyone and that they would all like your coin better? Several of us here do not. So what? That's what makes the world spin.
@amwldcoin said:
I think if you saw my coin in hand you would have a different opinion. The sheen you seem to think my coin has is due to the lighting.
@Wabbit2313 said:
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
Your sig line may be betraying you -- the Heritage example being discussed is the furthest thing from being a victim of a "knife fight" -- on the obverse bust, or otherwise.
My opinion (politely) stands. The Heritage example being discussed is more appealing to me than the particular coin of yours.
To each their own. Again, we are judging by obverse images only here (I would turn down either coin if it had a bruised rim on the reverse -- hate bruised rims) but I highly prefer original gray/grey circ surfaces vs. gray surfaces with the classic "old coin sheen" marketed sometimes as "soap and watered long ago." That's what I see and stand by, having no skin in either coin. Some of my Barbers are "perfect" circs -- some are not (but I tolerate them as they are the best I could find within budget at a certain place and time.)
Well, that's why I couched my terms in terms of judging "pictures" instead of "in hand." Still I honestly believe I would prefer the grayness of the Heritage coin more, vs. the grayness of your coin. I am not outright slamming your piece, as I said, I have some that look similar but they aren't my faves for that reason. As well, I see the marks on the Heritage example, but to me they are perfectly within reason. Now, if I had that coin in hand, and in rotating it in light, any of those marks caught and reflected the light back, it'd be a different story. I don't think they would -- seems nice and evenly dirty to me. But it does remind me of a similar coin which I did return -- from most all angles it was a sweet, dirty circ old piece -- except when I held it to the light from one particular angle, and a scratch "jumped out." Indeed, pics can only tell just so much, vs. in-hand.
If you will notice the low cert number you wouldn't say recent Was probably graded somewhere around 10 years ago.
@Wabbit2313 said:
I also see the sheen on your coin, a classic old cleaning or newer MS-70 job. The HA coin looks original, and you can even see some dirt on her. Not sure how you can speak for everyone and that they would all like your coin better? Several of us here do not. So what? That's what makes the world spin.
@amwldcoin said:
I think if you saw my coin in hand you would have a different opinion. The sheen you seem to think my coin has is due to the lighting.
@Wabbit2313 said:
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
Your sig line may be betraying you -- the Heritage example being discussed is the furthest thing from being a victim of a "knife fight" -- on the obverse bust, or otherwise.
My opinion (politely) stands. The Heritage example being discussed is more appealing to me than the particular coin of yours.
To each their own. Again, we are judging by obverse images only here (I would turn down either coin if it had a bruised rim on the reverse -- hate bruised rims) but I highly prefer original gray/grey circ surfaces vs. gray surfaces with the classic "old coin sheen" marketed sometimes as "soap and watered long ago." That's what I see and stand by, having no skin in either coin. Some of my Barbers are "perfect" circs -- some are not (but I tolerate them as they are the best I could find within budget at a certain place and time.)
Well, that's why I couched my terms in terms of judging "pictures" instead of "in hand." Still I honestly believe I would prefer the grayness of the Heritage coin more, vs. the grayness of your coin. I am not outright slamming your piece, as I said, I have some that look similar but they aren't my faves for that reason. As well, I see the marks on the Heritage example, but to me they are perfectly within reason. Now, if I had that coin in hand, and in rotating it in light, any of those marks caught and reflected the light back, it'd be a different story. I don't think they would -- seems nice and evenly dirty to me. But it does remind me of a similar coin which I did return -- from most all angles it was a sweet, dirty circ old piece -- except when I held it to the light from one particular angle, and a scratch "jumped out." Indeed, pics can only tell just so much, vs. in-hand.
All good. I dislike some of my own coins and it was not my intention to attack you. I just don't think the coin is worth that much as is but I hope you get a buyer who is not smashed!
This thread has taken a bizarre turn. It is absurd to click BIN on an eBay listing only to gripe about the price and return it because you agreed to pay too much. That is an abusive return.
@cameonut2011 said:
This thread has taken a bizarre turn. It is absurd to click BIN on an eBay listing only to gripe about the price and return it because you agreed to pay too much. That is an abusive return.
I truly believe the OP was correct. The buyer was drunk. Whether or not that's a valid excuse is open to interpretation I suppose. I believe I honoring deals.
A Lannister always pays its debts
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Wabbit2313 said:
You guys do know those are just normal circulation lines I hope? When a coin has the original dirt, like this one, it is exaggerated. When a coin has been cleaned, like the OP coin, the lines are not as visible, but they are there. The shine on the original coin gives it away. Probably an MS70 rub or similar, or perhaps a really old scrub that PCGS looked the other way on.
I have seen plenty of circulated coins that don't have these. I disagree with your characterization, but even if you were right, the marks are post mint made and severely limit eye appeal. I would expect coins like that to trade at a discount.
I highly expect if I owned that particular coin you might try and use any leverage for a discount, but it wouldn't wash with me. Still would much rather have this particular example (the Heritage coin) vs. a classic "soaped and watered long ago" job.
i sell on ebay and any case i ever had opened on me for buyers remose as the reason i won every time and didnt have to refund the buyer as that is not a valid excuse to ebay for a return. its in their seller protection policy
@speedemon said:
i sell on ebay and any case i ever had opened on me for buyers remose as the reason i won every time and didnt have to refund the buyer as that is not a valid excuse to ebay for a return. its in their seller protection policy
How can you avoid returns within the return period when eBay coerces sellers to offer unconditional returns?
@cameonut2011 said:
This thread has taken a bizarre turn. It is absurd to click BIN on an eBay listing only to gripe about the price and return it because you agreed to pay too much. That is an abusive return.
I truly believe the OP was correct. The buyer was drunk. Whether or not that's a valid excuse is open to interpretation I suppose. I believe I honoring deals.
i have sold on ebay for the last 5 years and had about every scam pulled on me at on time or another and thru it all ive learned that there are only a couple of reasons that a seller is gonna win a resolution case and buyers remorse is the 100% guaranteed one. if your listing states no retuns and ebay confirms thru ebay messages that its buyer remose then the buyer is gonna lose. period
Doesn't matter in my case because I want a satisfied customer! I have no problem with this return...just the way it started!
@speedemon said:
i have sold on ebay for the last 5 years and had about every scam pulled on me at on time or another and thru it all ive learned that there are only a couple of reasons that a seller is gonna win a resolution case and buyers remorse is the 100% guaranteed one. if your listing states no retuns and ebay confirms thru ebay messages that its buyer remose then the buyer is gonna lose. period
@OldIndianNutKase said:
I have bought some coins on eBay and Heritage after a few glassesof wine. But I will always honor a bid.
OINK
I was about to say the same thing. Wine bidding can be hazardous!
Only bid retractions (twice over 15+ years IIRC) were for missing decimals after an app update confused my typing skillz. I sent both sellers an explanation and apology and neither seemed too upset (no one blocked me anyway).
@cameonut2011 said:
This thread has taken a bizarre turn. It is absurd to click BIN on an eBay listing only to gripe about the price and return it because you agreed to pay too much. That is an abusive return.
There are buyers who don't do their research before buying a coin, they trust the seller, their feedback, the holder, they are trying to fill a list of dates, better dates obviously are in stronger demand. However sellers have responsibilities first to the hobby to be courteous, honest and the other boyscout virtues. It is relatively easy to check reasonable market on any given coin on Coinfacts and HA. If buyers have unhappy experiences even if they were stupid to pull the trigger on a purchase, they may not be interested in buying more. There are so many other hobbies, it is vital to make this one better.
@Wabbit2313 said:
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
@Wabbit2313 said:
You guys do know those are just normal circulation lines I hope? When a coin has the original dirt, like this one, it is exaggerated. When a coin has been cleaned, like the OP coin, the lines are not as visible, but they are there. The shine on the original coin gives it away. Probably an MS70 rub or similar, or perhaps a really old scrub that PCGS looked the other way on..
I transferred the OP's coin image to Photoshop where I corrected for the obvious deficiency in contrast in the original image. There are numerous marks and lines on the neck, throat, cheek and temple areas with possible corrosion on the lips and on the jawline below the earlobe. There are also some newer, shinier hairlines in the fields.
Now, that's not to say that the seller's coin isn't a decent coin. It is. Those marks are exactly what we would expect to find on any VF25 Barber Half Dollar. However, after having examined the contrast corrected image I have to agree with Wabbit that the Heritage coin is more original and thus its lines and marks are more readily visible.
The apparent discrepancy in line and mark visibility between the Heritage image and the eBay seller's image is magnified by the fact that the Heritage coin was obviously lit with a more uniform diffuse light source and the seller's coin was lit from a side angle with point source lighting (as evidenced by the shiny areas on the fringes of the cap, bangs, forehead, and nose).
All of us who study coin images know full well that lighting plays a huge role in how well some marks on a coin are either hidden or magnified, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Knowing the eBay seller as well as I do, I have no doubt whatsoever that any marks that don't show up well in his photos are the result of completely UNintentional actions. He is not the type of seller to intentionally deceive his customers.
All this being said, the claim that the seller's coin is somehow markedly superior to the Heritage coin by some $330 is simply ridiculous.
My current coin collecting interests are: (1) British coins 1838-1970 in XF-AU-UNC, (2) silver type coins in XF-AU with that classic medium gray coloration and exceptional eye appeal.
I have to humbly disagree with your thoughts on my coin! If anything the way I take pictures exaggerates scratches and marks! If I took a picture of the heritage coin I would wager it would look much worse! Perhaps when I get it back you can have an in hand look?
@Wabbit2313 said:
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
@Wabbit2313 said:
You guys do know those are just normal circulation lines I hope? When a coin has the original dirt, like this one, it is exaggerated. When a coin has been cleaned, like the OP coin, the lines are not as visible, but they are there. The shine on the original coin gives it away. Probably an MS70 rub or similar, or perhaps a really old scrub that PCGS looked the other way on..
I transferred the OP's coin image to Photoshop where I corrected for the obvious deficiency in contrast in the original image. There are numerous marks and lines on the neck, throat, cheek and temple areas with possible corrosion on the lips and on the jawline below the earlobe. There are also some newer, shinier hairlines in the fields.
Now, that's not to say that the seller's coin isn't a decent coin. It is. Those marks are exactly what we would expect to find on any VF25 Barber Half Dollar. However, after having examined the contrast corrected image I have to agree with Wabbit that the Heritage coin is more original and thus its lines and marks are more readily visible.
The apparent discrepancy in line and mark visibility between the Heritage image and the eBay seller's image is magnified by the fact that the Heritage coin was obviously lit with a more uniform diffuse light source and the seller's coin was lit from a side angle with point source lighting (as evidenced by the shiny areas on the fringes of the cap, bangs, forehead, and nose).
All of us who study coin images know full well that lighting plays a huge role in how well some marks on a coin are either hidden or magnified, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Knowing the eBay seller as well as I do, I have no doubt whatsoever that any marks that don't show up well in his photos are the result of completely UNintentional actions. He is not the type of seller to intentionally deceive his customers.
All this being said, the claim that the seller's coin is somehow markedly superior to the Heritage coin by some $330 is simply ridiculous.
@cameonut2011 said:
This thread has taken a bizarre turn. It is absurd to click BIN on an eBay listing only to gripe about the price and return it because you agreed to pay too much. That is an abusive return.
There are buyers who don't do their research before buying a coin, they trust the seller, their feedback, the holder, they are trying to fill a list of dates, better dates obviously are in stronger demand. However sellers have responsibilities first to the hobby to be courteous, honest and the other boyscout virtues. It is relatively easy to check reasonable market on any given coin on Coinfacts and HA. If buyers have unhappy experiences even if they were stupid to pull the trigger on a purchase, they may not be interested in buying more. There are so many other hobbies, it is vital to make this one better.
The only responsibility a seller has is to deliver the item and accurately describe it. Nothing more. There is too much hand holding these days. You should read and do your own research before entering into a contract. If not you should face the consequences of your actions.
@cameonut2011 said:
This thread has taken a bizarre turn. It is absurd to click BIN on an eBay listing only to gripe about the price and return it because you agreed to pay too much. That is an abusive return.
There are buyers who don't do their research before buying a coin, they trust the seller, their feedback, the holder, they are trying to fill a list of dates, better dates obviously are in stronger demand. However sellers have responsibilities first to the hobby to be courteous, honest and the other boyscout virtues. It is relatively easy to check reasonable market on any given coin on Coinfacts and HA. If buyers have unhappy experiences even if they were stupid to pull the trigger on a purchase, they may not be interested in buying more. There are so many other hobbies, it is vital to make this one better.
The only responsibility a seller has is to deliver the item and accurately describe it. Nothing more. There is too much hand holding these days. You should read and do your own research before entering into a contract. If not you should face the consequences of your actions.
Legally you may be correct. However ethics indicates more scrupulous actions:
What PNG requires:
To refrain from any of the following in dealing with non-professional customers:
(a) buying or selling at unreasonable prices;
(b) using high pressure sales techniques;
(c) using misleading performance data;
(d) comparing coins graded by a fringe grading service with those graded by an industry-standard, independent grading service in a way calculated to create an inaccurate impression;
(e) intentionally misrepresenting the origin, provenance or pedigree of a coin;
(f) intentionally misrepresenting the weight of a coin;
(g) intentionally misrepresenting the value of a coin;
(h) intentionally misrepresenting the investment potential of coins;
(i) intentionally misrepresenting an affiliation between myself and any Government agency.
To make an oral or written disclosure to my retail customers that (a) the coin market is speculative and unregulated; (b) many areas of numismatics lend themselves to third-party grading and authentication; (c) certification does not eliminate all risks associated with the grading of coins; and (d) as a PNG member, I am obliged to arbitrate any dispute relating to the purchase, sale or trade of coins and numismatic items.
@Justacommeman said:
Someone should start a company that opines whether or not the coin is solid for the grade
mark
Not sure if that's a good idea. Such a company would only create ambiguity and controversy.
Ya your probably right. Besides you would need a well respected industry leader with like 50 years experience who would personally screen every coin in hand to start a company like that. Where are you going to get someone like this? What was I thinking?
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
Between those two examples previously posted in this thread I would** most definitely **choose the Amwld piece. For how much more cost is a question I am not willing to go into, being that my barber half collection is at a few grades lower level of preservation. By the way, one of my latest pieces came from the OP.
I guess we do look at it differently. The Heritage coin has less wear, in the wreath, in the stars, near the eye, in LIBERTY, everywhere really. Your comment was he could not even find a dog for $550. I think he can find a really nice one for less than $550. The Heritage coin was $517 including the 18%.
If the HA coin didn't lose a knife fight I would agree with you. It would be a much better coin but the knife cuts on the bust kill it. The OP does seem to way overprice his coins hoping for someone to either bite at full price or negotiate. Guy bites and regrets it. Simple case here and nothing can be done by the seller except to accept the return/refund.
Well at least the buyer is returning the coin the proper way!
I could just see him standing in line at the post office today with a dry mouth and head pounding. lol
Even when I used to drink; I'd practice my due diligence and I'd research prices.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Your sig line may be betraying you -- the Heritage example being discussed is the furthest thing from being a victim of a "knife fight" -- on the obverse bust, or otherwise.
Perhaps you should click on the heritage picture then click on it again and then tell us what you see!
After careful consideration. Delete.
I'll try to link the enlarged picture of the Heritage coin. Click on the picture to see the enlarged image. I remember looking at this coin when it was up for auction and thinking OMG!
https://us.v-cdn.net/6027503/uploads/editor/yv/852ut7t0zn10.jpg
Knife fight looks about right to me....
You guys do know those are just normal circulation lines I hope? When a coin has the original dirt, like this one, it is exaggerated. When a coin has been cleaned, like the OP coin, the lines are not as visible, but they are there. The shine on the original coin gives it away. Probably an MS70 rub or similar, or perhaps a really old scrub that PCGS looked the other way on..
You are un frickin believable! Go look at my listing! My pictures are larger than the Heritage images. There is not a single coin among my 9 sets of Barber Half's that have "circulation lines" like the heritage coin! You have finally earned a disagree from me!
Mistaken Identity!
I have seen plenty of circulated coins that don't have these. I disagree with your characterization, but even if you were right, the marks are post mint made and severely limit eye appeal. I would expect coins like that to trade at a discount.
I highly expect if I owned that particular coin you might try and use any leverage for a discount, but it wouldn't wash with me. Still would much rather have this particular example (the Heritage coin) vs. a classic "soaped and watered long ago" job.
My opinion (politely) stands. The Heritage example being discussed is more appealing to me than the particular coin of yours.
I can tell you you would be in a vast minority of the Barber Collectors I know!
Not my coin.
My apologies!
To each their own. Again, we are judging by obverse images only here (I would turn down either coin if it had a bruised rim on the reverse -- hate bruised rims) but I highly prefer original gray/grey circ surfaces vs. gray surfaces with the classic "old coin sheen" marketed sometimes as "soap and watered long ago." That's what I see and stand by, having no skin in either coin. Some of my Barbers are "perfect" circs -- some are not (but I tolerate them as they are the best I could find within budget at a certain place and time.)
I think if you saw my coin in hand you would have a different opinion. The sheen you seem to think my coin has is due to the lighting.
I also see the sheen on your coin, a classic old cleaning or newer MS-70 job. The HA coin looks original, and you can even see some dirt on her. Not sure how you can speak for everyone and that they would all like your coin better? Several of us here do not. So what? That's what makes the world spin.
Well, that's why I couched my terms in terms of judging "pictures" instead of "in hand." Still I honestly believe I would prefer the grayness of the Heritage coin more, vs. the grayness of your coin. I am not outright slamming your piece, as I said, I have some that look similar but they aren't my faves for that reason. As well, I see the marks on the Heritage example, but to me they are perfectly within reason. Now, if I had that coin in hand, and in rotating it in light, any of those marks caught and reflected the light back, it'd be a different story. I don't think they would -- seems nice and evenly dirty to me. But it does remind me of a similar coin which I did return -- from most all angles it was a sweet, dirty circ old piece -- except when I held it to the light from one particular angle, and a scratch "jumped out." Indeed, pics can only tell just so much, vs. in-hand.
If you will notice the low cert number you wouldn't say recent Was probably graded somewhere around 10 years ago.
I'm more into circ cameo's myself...to each his own!
All good. I dislike some of my own coins and it was not my intention to attack you. I just don't think the coin is worth that much as is but I hope you get a buyer who is not smashed!
Bazinga!
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
on ebay if a case is open for buyers remorse then any negative left by the buyer will be removed by just calling ebay.
This thread has taken a bizarre turn. It is absurd to click BIN on an eBay listing only to gripe about the price and return it because you agreed to pay too much. That is an abusive return.
I truly believe the OP was correct. The buyer was drunk. Whether or not that's a valid excuse is open to interpretation I suppose. I believe I honoring deals.
A Lannister always pays its debts
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I wouldn't buy either.
i sell on ebay and any case i ever had opened on me for buyers remose as the reason i won every time and didnt have to refund the buyer as that is not a valid excuse to ebay for a return. its in their seller protection policy
my bad mispelled remorse
now if the buyer says item is not as described then buyer wins every time no matter what
How can you avoid returns within the return period when eBay coerces sellers to offer unconditional returns?
i have sold on ebay for the last 5 years and had about every scam pulled on me at on time or another and thru it all ive learned that there are only a couple of reasons that a seller is gonna win a resolution case and buyers remorse is the 100% guaranteed one. if your listing states no retuns and ebay confirms thru ebay messages that its buyer remose then the buyer is gonna lose. period
Doesn't matter in my case because I want a satisfied customer! I have no problem with this return...just the way it started!
Better to edit your boo boo than to add another comment. Click on the gear icon and choose edit.
I have bought some coins on eBay and Heritage after a few glassesof wine. But I will always honor a bid. And I have.
But if you are bidding on >100,000, an agent may be a good way to go.
OINK
For extra fun, use a drunk agent.
.
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"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I was about to say the same thing. Wine bidding can be hazardous!
Only bid retractions (twice over 15+ years IIRC) were for missing decimals after an app update confused my typing skillz. I sent both sellers an explanation and apology and neither seemed too upset (no one blocked me anyway).
There are buyers who don't do their research before buying a coin, they trust the seller, their feedback, the holder, they are trying to fill a list of dates, better dates obviously are in stronger demand. However sellers have responsibilities first to the hobby to be courteous, honest and the other boyscout virtues. It is relatively easy to check reasonable market on any given coin on Coinfacts and HA. If buyers have unhappy experiences even if they were stupid to pull the trigger on a purchase, they may not be interested in buying more. There are so many other hobbies, it is vital to make this one better.
I transferred the OP's coin image to Photoshop where I corrected for the obvious deficiency in contrast in the original image. There are numerous marks and lines on the neck, throat, cheek and temple areas with possible corrosion on the lips and on the jawline below the earlobe. There are also some newer, shinier hairlines in the fields.
Now, that's not to say that the seller's coin isn't a decent coin. It is. Those marks are exactly what we would expect to find on any VF25 Barber Half Dollar. However, after having examined the contrast corrected image I have to agree with Wabbit that the Heritage coin is more original and thus its lines and marks are more readily visible.
The apparent discrepancy in line and mark visibility between the Heritage image and the eBay seller's image is magnified by the fact that the Heritage coin was obviously lit with a more uniform diffuse light source and the seller's coin was lit from a side angle with point source lighting (as evidenced by the shiny areas on the fringes of the cap, bangs, forehead, and nose).
All of us who study coin images know full well that lighting plays a huge role in how well some marks on a coin are either hidden or magnified, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Knowing the eBay seller as well as I do, I have no doubt whatsoever that any marks that don't show up well in his photos are the result of completely UNintentional actions. He is not the type of seller to intentionally deceive his customers.
All this being said, the claim that the seller's coin is somehow markedly superior to the Heritage coin by some $330 is simply ridiculous.
I have to humbly disagree with your thoughts on my coin! If anything the way I take pictures exaggerates scratches and marks! If I took a picture of the heritage coin I would wager it would look much worse! Perhaps when I get it back you can have an in hand look?
The only responsibility a seller has is to deliver the item and accurately describe it. Nothing more. There is too much hand holding these days. You should read and do your own research before entering into a contract. If not you should face the consequences of your actions.
Legally you may be correct. However ethics indicates more scrupulous actions:
What PNG requires:
To refrain from any of the following in dealing with non-professional customers:
(a) buying or selling at unreasonable prices;
(b) using high pressure sales techniques;
(c) using misleading performance data;
(d) comparing coins graded by a fringe grading service with those graded by an industry-standard, independent grading service in a way calculated to create an inaccurate impression;
(e) intentionally misrepresenting the origin, provenance or pedigree of a coin;
(f) intentionally misrepresenting the weight of a coin;
(g) intentionally misrepresenting the value of a coin;
(h) intentionally misrepresenting the investment potential of coins;
(i) intentionally misrepresenting an affiliation between myself and any Government agency.
To make an oral or written disclosure to my retail customers that (a) the coin market is speculative and unregulated; (b) many areas of numismatics lend themselves to third-party grading and authentication; (c) certification does not eliminate all risks associated with the grading of coins; and (d) as a PNG member, I am obliged to arbitrate any dispute relating to the purchase, sale or trade of coins and numismatic items.
https://pngdealers.org/code-of-ethics/
Not sure if that's a good idea. Such a company would only create ambiguity and controversy.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Ya your probably right. Besides you would need a well respected industry leader with like 50 years experience who would personally screen every coin in hand to start a company like that. Where are you going to get someone like this? What was I thinking?
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......