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CAC and Non CAC Saints / where have Saints Gone?
Cougar1978
Posts: 7,645 ✭✭✭✭✭
A discussion about lack of Saints (and Libs) on the bourse at recent local show on CDN Bid focused on Generic Saints reported by CDN and of course other USGTC shows sticker coins higher in grades MS63 and above. The separate bid reporting not reflected for coins MS62 and lower. Have sellers taken USGTC off market send to CAC for stickering in hope of getting more money? Are bidders on eBay bidding up non stickered Saints with intent send to CAC? I was looking fill 20 coin slab storage box w PCGS Saints MS63 thru MS65.
So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
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1) Premiums are low for saints right now, 2) more people expect gold's next move will be up, rather than down, especially with events like North Korea and the upcoming debt ceiling showdown adding a lot of uncertainty.
There's no real reason for existing owners to bring their saints to market right now if they think they'll be worth more in two months. I suspect it has zero to do with CAC right now.
I thought I recently heard there was a flood of gold coming in from Europe and prices where falling. Maybe it Was it for smaller gold?
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It ....IS.!!!!!
I'm beginning to wonder HOW many bundle of hundreds of them (and OTHER slabbed gold)I will get emails on.
The quantity is staggering.
A PCGS 24 Saint sold for $1362 with BP yesterday on GC, ~$100 above melt. The timing right now seems poor to sell an uncirculated Saint or Lib. unless you need the funds or you think gold is going to tank.
PCGS 64 Saint
There have been many posts here and there suggesting that all kinds of coins 'have gotten scarcer' recently.
This is bull-poney.
The stuff hasn't disappeared.
People pull their good stuff off the market when prices are bad.
The likelihood of a quick price recovery is just speculation and is simply wishful thinking too.
The inflow from Europe - increase supply
Someone have proof of in flow from Europe?
Ask any generic gold importer.
Last spring, I saw quantities of pre-1933 common circulated to near unc European gold and American gold, much of it small coins, that I hadn't seen for years and years (perhaps since 1979-1980). Amounts that I thought were shocking. At the recent summer versions of the same shows, it had disappeared.
At the Chicago Coin Expo in April, there were a lot of very high-grade Saints, common dates, in PCGS slabs. Super nice coins, many 66s, all very fully priced.
Memory is tricky and anecdotal evidence can't be readily backed up, but that is what I remember.
I despise the spellcheck feature on this forum.
Yes
CN eBay
All of my collection is in a safe deposit box!
Scrooge McDuck has been trying to corner the market. The 90 to 95 foot level in his money bin is filled with them.
I have not been active in the gold Saints market for a while, however, I do keep in touch with people across the country. Many have said that they have just not been pushing them in the last six to eight months due to lack of market interest. They are still there, just not 'hot' items now. Cheers, RickO
What type of small coins?
The GC 64 Saint (above) was not a bad deal for the buyer. I may have wanted it myself.
Seems odd that when gold is on sale, no one wants it. Seems like a good time to stock up at a minimal premium.
It's the Lib's fault.
(no politics intended)
Oh how I love generic. Laura turned me on to them, with a post she made here.... (on the forums) long ago.
Sovereigns, half sovereigns, small stuff from Austria and Hungary, 20 Francs of Nappy III, also USA fives and 2 and one-halfs. The kind of stuff that was common trading material before The Krugerrand came along. The kinda stuff you used to see all the time before modern coins tied to even Troy weights came along.
I'm not really a coin collector. My collection is probably 97% double eagles and a few miscellaneous pieces.
I have been buying generic double eagles for about 5 years with the bulk purchased over the past 3 years.
I have had no problem buying as much as I want seemingly at lower premiums with each purchase.
Five years ago I was paying about a 9% premium above melt for a 62. Today I wouldn't pay over 3% for the same coin.
In recent years I've been buying somewhat higher grades 64 Saints and 63 LIbs for the same 8/9% premium above melt.
There doesn't appear any real interest in gold. in general. The metal has been declining since 2011. Meanwhile, assets have taken off whether it be stocks, real estate, art, etc. Has bitcoin siphoned off some trading interest among those that would previously have bought bullion? Perhaps? Buying and selling bitcoin has been easier to transact than buying and storing gold. We all know that history, in general, seems to be lost among the population. Besides, right now, bitcoin is hot and gold not so much.
Anyway, as Stanley Drunkeniller said, "if you don't own gold you know neither history nor economics".
So.... I buy coins regularly, mainly for their gold content. Thus, I'm not really a coin collector.
Who is selling? The European banks? Perhaps? Individuals believing they have better opportunities elsewhere? Maybe? Everyone? Probably. All I know is I'll continue to pickup low premium slabbed coins
hoping to hedge my investments. My ultimate fear is that the coins might one day be worth something.
Many won't sell their holdings because they do not want to incur large losses from when the coins were purchased for decent sized numismatic premiums. With the influx of higher denomination gold coins from Europe, I think the common date coins will languish for years and the prices will only recover if the precious metal market spikes much like modern day gold commemoratives and bullion coins. I'm glad that I sold off most of my gold before the most recent crash.
I thought revisiting this thread was worth bringing it back.
In retrospect, it appears that low prices did what they are supposed to do: diminish supply, and that's what happened. Higher prices a few years later (continuing to today) have increased the generic CAC and numismatic CAC supplies.
Unless gold goes up see no hope for them.
Profound!
Davie is buying them at spot.
Long time passing...