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Need Advise on this 1893 S Morgan Dollar

Coinbeast92Coinbeast92 Posts: 21 ✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

What do you all think of this piece?
it's a real Morgan but I'm pretty sure it's just an added S.

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,781 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It is impossible to tell from those pictures. There have been many fakes made of that coin. If you have a 10X glass, take a look at the "T" in "LIBERTY." If there is a raised line running through it that might run up in the rest of the design above it on high grade examples, you are on your way to proving that the coin is real. If not, then chances are it's not good.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 12,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    looks like it may also have been whizzed, on top of the added mm....

    Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Bill, check the shape of the date numerals. Looks like a modern counterfeit. :wink:

    Will someone back me up please?

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    Coinbeast92Coinbeast92 Posts: 21 ✭

    My Apologies about the photos i don't have camera on me only my phone and the lighting sucks. LOL




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    TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    no way -- punt

    Frank

    BHNC #203

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    Coinbeast92Coinbeast92 Posts: 21 ✭

    its most definitely been cleaned that i know

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    TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    and that S looks funky

    Frank

    BHNC #203

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    coindeucecoindeuce Posts: 13,510 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On genuine 1893-S coins, the upright of the 1 of the date should be centered over a denticle. That does not appear to be the case here.

    "Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
    http://www.american-legacy-coins.com

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    Coinbeast92Coinbeast92 Posts: 21 ✭

    @Treashunt said:
    and that S looks funky

    that's what i thought. thank you!

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    SDSportsFanSDSportsFan Posts: 5,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 4, 2017 12:08PM

    It appears to not have the proper diagnostics in the R and T of LIBERTY for it to be real.

    I just pulled out my 93s and compared it to yours, and the date in yours is definitely off. Also, the mintmark is not in the correct spot.

    Definitely fake.

    Steve

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    With new photos, the coin is whizzed and genuine. Now I agree added "S." The "1" is in wrong position.

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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,781 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @coindeuce said:
    On genuine 1893-S coins, the upright of the 1 of the date should be centered over a denticle. That does not appear to be the case here.

    Yes, the "1" in the date is in the wrong spot relative to the dentiles. Not good. Sorry.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    mannie graymannie gray Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    Bill, check the shape of the date numerals. Looks like a modern counterfeit. :wink:

    Will someone back me up please?

    Back up has arrived.
    The date was the first thing I noticed.
    Most likely an altered date coin.
    PASS

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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 25,170 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The 1893-S Morgan is a coin you just don't buy raw.

    All glory is fleeting.
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    BillJonesBillJones Posts: 35,781 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    The 1893-S Morgan is a coin you just don't buy raw.

    Unless you really know what you are doing. Even if you do, I'd never buy a raw one from the Internet.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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    Coinbeast92Coinbeast92 Posts: 21 ✭

    Thank You all!
    I did not buy this coin, it was given to me as a gift from my uncle. he had no idea what it even was and when he showed it to me my eyes almost fell out of my head, but when i looked closer i realized it most likely was not a an "S" mint coin.
    still a cool educational coin tho.

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    Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 12,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes, and for free, you can't beat it!
    Thanks for sharing - I think many of learned a few things from the experts posting to this thread.

    Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
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    CascadeChrisCascadeChris Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭

    No diagnostics needed. Not even surface condition or general appearance. Only one obverse die was used for 93s and its a far date. This is a left of normal / near date. Fakearooskie. Train your eye to look at the date position first on any 93s Morgan. If it's correct then you go to secondary diagnostics

    The more you VAM..
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    rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Definitely agree it is fake... all the diagnostics are missing... Great thread for educating new collectors though. Cheers, RickO

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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 32,255 ✭✭✭✭✭

    id pass on it. jmo

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    morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Doesn't look good based on the images. If this diagnostic isn't there, flat out NO GOOD, NO QUESTION.
    The 1 of the date should be over the 4th denticle, slightly favoring the 5th, to the right of the point of the neck truncation. It doesn't sit squarely over the 4th denticle. Easiest Morgan to authenticate as only 1 obverse die was used for the entire run.

    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
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    JcldJcld Posts: 449 ✭✭✭

    Awesome response morgansforever, very informative.

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    SamByrdSamByrd Posts: 3,131 ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 5, 2017 4:20PM

    It looks like maybe an 1898 S that the rest of the 8 was removed. Obviously not certain only that the obverse has been worked over , the micro porosity of the fields from chemical processing and the polishing make me think it's possible for an altered date. There is most often a reason a coin of this caliber is raw. Most people will understand that this coin is more valuable and very liquid in a legitimate tpg holder. I can't really place it but that reverse looks later though not 1921.

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    morgansforevermorgansforever Posts: 8,501 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Jcld said:
    Awesome response morgansforever, very informative.

    It's the same image I use to explain to the 100's of Ebay sellers why their coin is no good.

    World coins FSHO Hundreds of successful BST transactions U.S. coins FSHO
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    Wolf359Wolf359 Posts: 7,666 ✭✭✭

    Fake. What a shame

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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 39,419 ✭✭✭✭✭

    But is it a real morgan with alterations ?

    Both the date and mm are suspect to me.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Note of caution: On a state-of-the-art modern C/F that is made using transfer dies, the "1" will line up correctly. I'm not posting about the Chinese junk we see now.
    At this time, AFAIK, none have been reported but they ARE COMING and will come in my lifetime and I'm a very old man. LOL.

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