So how will the Prez $'s work going forward?
DBSTrader2
Posts: 3,498 ✭✭✭✭
Now that we've FINALLY caught up with all the Prez $'s to date (and a thankful shout-out to fellow Forum members who were so helpful!), my sons & I are curious about how the series will progress from here.
I know there was a ratio required of Prez-to-NativeAmericans that had to be maintained during Prez production. Now that Prez $'s are at least temporarily done, what's the rule now? Just 100% minted will be Native American? And would that be in similar N.A. numbers as in recent years, or bumped-up to the higher combined total of each prior year's Prez/NA combo?
I'd also hope the prices of Mint/Proof sets would fall, due to less dollar coins, but will they?
And what is the rule for minting any new coins in the future as any living Prez's pass away? Is there a certain number of years required between their passing & production? Will just 1 coin be produced as each one meets the requirement, or does the Mint plan to wait until several ex-Prez's pass away to produce them all in 1 year?
Just curious! Thanks!
Comments
I wouldn't be surprised if they retire the series. They have so many in the vaults just sitting in the mint bags. Honestly, no idea.
I am pretty sure the prez dollars are done. I think the law stated that when all eligible ones were honored, the program would end. Reagan was the last.
I think the ratio of sac $ was violated by the mint but they just could not produce the required amount with the lack of demand, and there were no penalties for violating the provision.
I too thought they were done.
They can't be done,,,,, my Dansco has holes for:
Bush #41
Clinton #42
Bush #43
Obama #44
Is there a dansco for #45?
That was someone with wishful thinking
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
There are some more empty holes but no name for #45.
My Dansco has a page with photos of all the presidents .
The photo page of each president is right before the page with coins.
I just had a GREAT idea,,,,,,, let's hire Dan Carr to strike coins for
41
42
43
44
45
Then we can complete the series,,,, and since no such coins exist they truly are fantasy issues. Then in 8 more years after The Donald is out of office we will need the next Pres coin,,,,, most likely Ivanka,,,,,,,#46
Say what you will about the Presidential Dollar series. I enjoyed collecting them very much. American history, etc. I also think the State Quarter series was AWESOME! And....I'm a high profile business executive with lots of money. LOTS of money. Yet I still enjoy the simple things in life. Like Statehood Quarters and Presidential Dollars. Lots of money. Sometimes I think that's why Mrs. Hydrant and all the little hydrants are so attached to me. Money. My girlfriend tells me it's my movie star good looks that causes all these people to surround me. She's pretty, and very young, but I don't believe her. It's my high profile business executive MONEY. And maybe just a little....Good night.
I have not read any plans for the continuation of the series. I am not sure if the congressional authorization even allowed for it to continue. That would be worth researching. Cheers, RickO
The presidential dollar series failed on all levels. The coins did not circulate to any important degree. They have had no impact on the economy except to reduce the national debt because the pieces in storage, which cost money to warehouse, are “a national asset.”
Coin collectors don’t want them. The presidential dollar Proof sets were a complete drug on the market. As a dealer I couldn’t get much more than face value for them, and I was not alone. In conversations with other dealers I heard the same thing.
My club had a large group of very select, prepackaged Mint State presidential dollars donated to us. If slabbed, these coins would have graded MS-67 or 68. I tried to sell them at the club auctions. People would not even pay face value for them! I had a couple of members buy sets for their kids or grandkids, from Washington to Hays, for face value. Finally we give them out as door prizes.
Nobody seems to want these coins. Continuing this serious would be silly, but given that it’s the Federal Government, silly is often the order of the day.
They should have stopped production with the president who said " the buck stops here", just because.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I noticed that the mint did reduce prices on proof sets this year....... so there is that
Of course the "buck" he was talking about was a deer horn that was used as part of a poker game.
Morgan dollars (well, maybe not the proofs) were in the same situation until the 1960's. Millions of them sat unwanted in government vaults. But just watch - once the coins' metal value exceeds their face value (100 years from now at the latest) look for them to become enormously popular and for their values to skyrocket. I can't wait!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Ive got my album filled with dead presidents. The End.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
The ones that were minted will sit in vaults until the heat death of the universe.
The mint will continue to produce NA$ based on the legal requirement - primarily for collectors each year - with the remainder in vaults.
Eventually, they'll run out of vault space and just start piling them in the fountains around Washington, where nobody will bother to steal them.
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Maybe if they melted some of each issue of the ones in storage & used them to make the new ones (when the time comes), the reduced mintages would result in a renewed interest among collectors? And maybe the government could start paying their bills in dollar coins, too! ;-) The biggest problem is they refused to circulate them via banks towards the end to people who may have shown some interest if they weren't so hard or costly to get. But until people in government stop doing stupid things for stupid's sake, we'll end up with more, similar fiascos.............
No, the principal reason dollar coins don't circulate is the continued issuance of the paper one dollar bill (note). You are all over-thinking this.
Also, when a one dollar coin is produced (with material at 4 cents per coin and labor and distribution costs at around 5 cents per coin), either the Treasury or the FRB records a "profit" of about 90 cents. If the coins were destroyed by official sources, that "profit" would presumably have to be reversed on somebody's ledgers. So the coins aren't going to be destroyed.
When a President dies, the USPS routinely issues a portrait commemorative postage stamp for him in the next year. I could see Congress directing the U.S. Mint to do the same thing, using the goldine dollar coin format.
My experience with these coins shows that supply has nothing to do with the lack of interest. The mintages have been limited for several years to collector sets and rolls that are sold for more than face value by the mint. The bottom line is most collectors don't want these about these coins PERIOD.
When the Obama administration aborted the series after the Garfield coin, the series lost it's following. When available at face value, there were many eager collectors for each new issue. These same people weren't willing or weren't used to paying more than face value, so the thing kinda died on the vine. But any post-Garfield coin that escapes into vending machines, metro ticket machines, or laundromat machines gets noticed and gets snapped up. That's 'what happened' and there are many people hoping to find some of the later coins.
That was not my experience at my local club. I could not "sell" Gem BU examples at face value. We finally gave them away as door prizes.
It's like the joke about bobble head dolls. First prize is one bobble head doll; second prize is two bobble head dolls.
I am aware of maybe 100 small banks that went to a lot of trouble to obtain the Presidential coins. These small banks had many customers asking for them when it was just a matter of paying face value. I remember some Bank officers saying how disappointed customers were that they would not be able to fill their albums/folders.
Yes, the informal/new collector was certainly discouraged when they were not shipped to banks.
I am not necessarily advocating for the elimination of the dollar bill, but if we did not have the paper dollar coin would circulate. I have lived in and travelled in Europe, and high value coins circulate with no issues (other than some counterfeiting, but that just opens the door to more collectibles).
And, as was mentioned, the gov't will never melt down the coins as they would lose the seignorage (profit) from minting them. There are some countries south of the border that use our dollar coins - I could see them being shipped out as part of some aid package,
But if we ship them out as part of an aid package, do we also lose that seignorage?
Would we retain that seignorage & spark some renewed interest if they started sending the more recent post-Garfield ones back out to banks so people could again collect them & complete collections? Better than just sitting in storage, isn't it? But might upset those who bought previously at above face?
No loss of seignorage unless they are melted down. A dollar coin in Ecaudor is still worth a dollar.... The question is, how would the feds "pay" for the disbursement? Example: foreign aid is approved, and then that budgeted cash gets paid to the Treasury in exchange for the dollar coins.
As for post-Garfield, I don't think there are any in the vaults - the later dollar coins (Sacs included) were minted to accommodate collector demand, and once sold out at the Mint's website that is it.
Thx everyone for updates/comments!
Now if someone could only explain to me why my original Prez $ folders didn't have room for the 2016's.... Maybe they expected a 3rd folder in the series for 2016 & beyond that never materialized? Now I have to go get me a blank dollar-size folder to accommodate the 2016 Prez $1's and N.A. $1's going forward.......... Would be nice if they did a "combined" folder for the latest Prez/NA's like they did for the Ike's & SBA's..........
I asked for two rolls of dollar coins at the bank last month. I received coins that graded good through BU including coins that were sold only for a premium by the mint. I have exactly $10 left to spend. I am suprised at how easily they are accepted although I used the SBAs for transit or parking. I would not wish SBAs on any retailer.
I hope the program is extended once a living past (or present) President passes. I think Congress will get sentimental once Bush Sr. or Carter passes.
Somewhere there are quantities of post-Garfield coins. Total mintages per President have ranged from 12 million to 5 million coins, IIRC. None has ever "sold out", or at least not that we have been told. Removing the items from Mint sale after two calendar years is not especially the same as "sold out". When The Mint uses the words "sold out" on its website, it seems to mean "this option sold out".
I have not tracked mintages and you may well be correct. However, I know that for some of the "collectors only" coins certain options (rolls, bags) have indeed been marked as sold out or not available (I am the "proud" owner of a bag of LBJ $s because the rolls were no longer available). If the Mint is holding back on any of them they are foolish but when has that ever stopped them.
I know that some years ago they reached back into the vault and sold off some older Sac $ (2001?). Would be nice if they did that again, and also if they once again allowed bulk purchases at face value (but that program was abused quite a bit by people looking for credit card miles or cash back).
The FRB vaults are full, except for the ones they ship south. They may have a FIFO inventory system (I don't know) so a bank can't order 6 boxes of Garfields or whatever, they have to take whatever is sent. I'll be visiting a couple of vaults later in the year and I'll ask, but usually when I ask about prezzies, the vault managers start cussing and throwing things.
The prezibuck series is done, it sunset with Reagan. It would take an act of congress to get it started again.
But if you haven't been paying attention...
American Innovation $1 Coin Act, H.R. 6025
In the unc. Prez coin options, I don't think it is Mint stubbornness, but rather a lack of demand for the coins at a stiff premium over face value. At face value, yes, the coins would probably quickly clear out, but the % premium on small quantities is rather stiff.
They have. By 3 dollars, since the last mint/proof set had three prezibucks in 'em.
As for visiting vaults, you must be referring to private commercial banks. Pretty certain you could not visit one of the twelve actual Federal Reserve Banks or any of their facilities and get anywhere at all. It is actually rare to meet any FRB employee who handles any physical coin or currency - it is a paper pushing and electronic keyboard tapping kind of outfit.
Nope. The Fed gots vaults.
Dollar coins pile up in Federal Reserve vaults
I know they have vaults (I've been in one in Philadelphia, many years ago), but not that the public can simply walk into and receive any attention. The Federal Reserve system is a bank for other bankers.
That's true.
But man, they spent over a half-million on a new vault in Texas just to hold these things...
(I didn't see where someone said they visited a vault full of 'em...
Perhaps, especially as the BEP prints banknotes near DFW International Airport. But perhaps are you getting confused with a major recent news story about some new Gold depository that just opened down there? (or a planned project announced down there?) And I thought that one was private, although there might be some contrived link to the State of Texas government?
The Prezibuck law is here.
To wit:
this subsection shall terminate when each President has been so honored, subject to paragraph (2)(E), and may not be resumed except by an Act of Congress.Paragraph 2E:
No coin issued under this subsection may bear the image of a living former or current President, or of any deceased former President during the 2-year period following the date of the death of that President.It's dead, Jim.
I think that law had to be winked at, somehow, to do the Reagan coin.
Whenever it should come to pass that a currently living President 'crosses the bar', both Parties in Congress will have a little session, stand up, hold hands and sing 'Kumbya' a couple times, and then vote the decedent the honor of a coin. Inevitable. Should the present goldine Dollar still be around, I'd bet that that would be the format.
The only time you could make a small profit on them was when you could order them $500 at a time for face vale, no shipping, pay with a rewards credit card and cash them in at your local credit union (assuming your credit union was less than $5.00 to $15.00 in gas away.)
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
Correct! The European Union has no problem having people accept one and two Euro coins since the smallest paper money denomination is five Euro.
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
And that is exactly why there's a premium to get a prezibuck. Abuse of the system.
businessinsider: U.S. Mint Ends The Dollar Coin “Scam” For Airline Miles
One point of clarification: the Federal Reserve is not the same as the mint, so I assume (??) that any excess $ coins minted as collector coins never made it to the Fed. I assume the Mint cannot force feed the FR banks, but I might be wrong.
As for the Reagan coin, it was a matter of interpretation. All presidents had to be honored in order, and the law would end when all eligible presidents had been honored. Carter was the stumbling block, since he was (and still is) alive. Some said that Carter not being eligible stopped the program, others said that the Reagan coin was next since he was otherwise eligible. The Reagan coin argument won out.
I am a consultant to the Fed and a member of one of their advisory committees, I have visited 7 of the 12 vaults. There are areas where I'm not allowed to go, but I can get a walk through the main floor of any of them. The other 5 are on my bucket list (what a geek!).
The Mint is a division of the United States Treasury and part of the Executive branch under our Constitution. The Federal Reserve Bank is a whole different animal, deriving its authority under laws first passed by Congress and signed by the President and upheld by the Supreme Court from time-to-time, and I ain't nearly stupid enough to go there about how the FRB derives its authority.
But I do not think the Presidential dollars or any other coins have legal tender status until the FRB has waved some form of magic wand over them. Perhaps the post-Garfield coins never leave the actual hands of The Mint or its distributors until they are sold, but the FRB has some key role in 'monetizing' them. IIRC, the coins are some form of liabilities on the FRB's books and probably some form of assets on the Treasury's books. Or it may be the other way around. If my view is wrong or too simple, I would be willingly corrected so long as it doesn't deteriorate into anti-FRB propaganda.
You might be right but there is the issue of coins sold directly by the mInt. As far as I know they are still money....
Ever see any bags of Ike dollars? As I understand it, they were listed on the forms banks used to request coins up until a few years ago. Not sure if any got delivered out, or where they all went to if there are none left in the vaults.
What about Jimmy Carter? Still alive and doing great work for Habitat for Humanity!