Ask a stupid coin question thread.

1Mike1 · July 19, 2017 5:48PM

If someone answers a stupid question incorrectly, should someone chime in with the correct answer making the person who answered initially look more stupider than the stupid question being asked?

OldEastside · July 19, 2017 5:48PM

When I was a kid we had 5 & Dime Stores and when we went in there we had nickels and dime coins in our pockets and purses...........so how come we don't have 99 cent coins for all the 99 cent stores ? ..........hmmm

Steve

keyman64 · July 19, 2017 5:48PM

@Fairlaneman said:
Is the Total Coin Market really in the chithole?

Ken

Total?...No. But if the quality isn't ALL THERE, yes.

keyman64 · July 19, 2017 5:50PM

@Coinstartled said:
When is the grey sheet going to catch up to the declining Morgan market?

http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/479188/1882-CC-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-66

The grey sheet hasn't been relevant in what?...10 years? Still isn't, even after NGC peeps took it over. What is relevant?....AUCTION PRICES, as you seem to be acutely aware.

keyman64 · July 19, 2017 5:51PM

@CommemKing said:
I don't understand what a capped die is.

http://www.coinfacts.com/error_coins/capped_die.htm

jedm · July 19, 2017 5:52PM

@WinLoseWin said:

Why are coins usually round?

Because at one time coins were called "duits" and it sounded funny when someone said "I'll pay you when I get a square duit" so they started making them round and they've just kinda stayed that way for no other reason.

WinLoseWin · July 19, 2017 5:57PM

@jedm said:

@WinLoseWin said:

Why are coins usually round?

Because at one time coins were called "duits" and it sounded funny when someone said "I'll pay you when I get a square duit" so they started making them round and they've just kinda stayed that way for no other reason.

.
.
Wasn't going to give you a LOL, but I finally got a round duit,

.
.

MsMorrisine · July 19, 2017 6:09PM

how long did it take to carve those roman coins?

RichieURich · July 19, 2017 6:15PM

@Numiven said:
1. Do dealers have a different (cheaper) prices at PCGS and NGC when they send in their coins for grading at the shows?

how do people meet the 3 yrs of full time dealer requirement to register as a PCGS as a dealer? As u cannot make a living having a non-pcgs /ngc affiliation for 3 yrs?

I'll try a couple answers.
1. The dealer rate is slightly less than the collector rate. For example, for an Economy the stated rate is $20 and I pay $18. For dealers who submit huge numbers of coins, their rates are even less.
2. Someone can make a living not being a PCGS or NGC dealer, for the 3 years it takes to meet the Authorized Dealer requirements for PCGS and NGC. I don't think it would be good for a brand new dealer to become a PCGS/NGC Authorized Dealer the day he/she starts his/her business. For example, the new dealer could say we will submit all coins to PCGS for free, get a lot of coins from the public, then skip town; where would that leave PCGS? The public knows that the dealers in the Authorized Dealer list have met some kind of requirements, or that dealer wouldn't be on the list.

KindaNewish · July 19, 2017 6:32PM

@1Mike1 said:
If someone answers a stupid question incorrectly, should someone chime in with the correct answer making the person who answered initially look more stupider than the stupid question being asked?

No. Wrong. You're the puppet.

Coinstartled · July 19, 2017 6:46PM

@keyman64 said:

@Coinstartled said:
When is the grey sheet going to catch up to the declining Morgan market?

http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/479188/1882-CC-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-66

>

@keyman64 said:

@Coinstartled said:
When is the grey sheet going to catch up to the declining Morgan market?

http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/479188/1882-CC-Morgan-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS-66

The grey sheet hasn't been relevant in what?...10 years? Still isn't, even after NGC peeps took it over. What is relevant?....AUCTION PRICES, as you seem to be acutely aware.

I found them to be quite good on a liquid market such as Morgan's. JF seems reluctant though to adjust pricing downward. I got hammered on one coin earlier in the year because of that. I like to have a piece of paper in my hand that is close.....checking auction archives is secondary. At least it was.

pocketpiececommems · July 19, 2017 7:30PM

Why is it harder to get a cir classic commem graded PO01 compared to Morgan dollar PO01's

Coin Finder · July 19, 2017 9:10PM

Do people on the Buy, Sell, Trade forum who state they are "taking offers" ever sell anything that way?

You · July 19, 2017 9:27PM

@Meltdown said:
is this toning artificial or natural?

That's artificial. Toning that is splotchy in that manner and in which the color changes sharply at irregular areas from toned to not toned or from one color to another (i.e. changes from orange to blue at 9 o'clock without fading and in an irregular splotchy pattern) are artificial and usually point to being toned with some sort of liquid. Another tell is that the colors crawl up onto the devices. That doesn't mean someone won't spend money on it (although I don't find it attractive personally). The truth is, the vast vast vast majority of silver eagles on the market with colorful toning are artificial, but the line between artificial and "market acceptable" for these coins has faded and PCGS in particular is certifying them like hotcakes, artificial or not (to PCGS and NGC, market acceptability > technical grading).

3keepSECRETif2rDEAD · July 19, 2017 9:59PM

...was gonna start a thread but this place fits better so here it goes...

Do NGC gen 6 holders carry any plastic premium? The holders with the newly added line but hologram stickers from the fattys???

cameonut2011 · July 19, 2017 10:23PM

@Meltdown said:
is this toning artificial or natural?

Regardless, it isn't a sought after look which is pretty much everything market wise.

Edited: I'm tired and didn't mean that in the snotty way that you could have read my original post.

cameonut2011 · July 19, 2017 10:27PM

@Fairlaneman said:
Is the Total Coin Market really in the chithole?

Ken

Pretty much except for early federal coinage and maybe a handful of other small niches.

cameonut2011 · July 19, 2017 10:29PM

@BryceM said:
Does CAC offer more money for an MS65+ coin with a green sticker than an MS65 coin with a green sticker

I wish.

cameonut2011 · July 19, 2017 10:32PM

@Boosibri said:
What will happen to coin prices when the one individual determining good from bad hangs it up?

If CAC closed its doors, I think the market would tank unless some well financed group tried to keep CAC's role as a market maker alive.

cameonut2011 · July 19, 2017 10:34PM

@1Mike1 said:
If someone answers a stupid question incorrectly, should someone chime in with the correct answer making the person who answered initially look more stupider than the stupid question being asked?

Is there a special forum badge for that?

cameonut2011 · July 19, 2017 10:36PM

Why do collectors tolerate grade inflation?

1Mike1 · July 19, 2017 10:41PM

@cameonut2011 said:

@1Mike1 said:
If someone answers a stupid question incorrectly, should someone chime in with the correct answer making the person who answered initially look more stupider than the stupid question being asked?

Is there a special forum badge for that?

Yes, I have a picture of it. If you hold the alt key down on the keyboard and then press F4 it will show you the pic.

keyman64 · July 20, 2017 1:53AM

@thebigeng said:
Do people on the Buy, Sell, Trade forum who state they are "taking offers" ever sell anything that way?

Yes, I have.

Treashunt · July 20, 2017 3:18AM

@Coinstartled said:
Why is the reverse of a Morgan nearly always nicer than the obverse. I get the strike part but not the lack of marks.

Because of the design, the cheek has a magnet that attracts other coins to hit it.

Treashunt · July 20, 2017 3:19AM

@totally said:
I thought we needed a thread like this for dumb questions. What's the best way to obtain a PR 69 or 70 DCAM 1992 or 1996 half dollar for my type set? Basically I just want one and to spend as little as possible because it's something I won't love but something I would need for a set. Is the best way ebay auction or at a coin show in a junk bin?

The cheapest way is the junk bin

Treashunt · July 20, 2017 3:21AM

@3stars said:
Why have dates on coins? No need for them and would make preparing dies a lot easier. Kills the coin hobby, but from a practical standpoint they aren't needed. You can account for the number of coins produced in a year simply by counting them.

The same reason as for why mintmarks on coins?

Tradition.
Actually, I believe that the dates & MM's are there for quality control.
By knowing which mint produced a certain coin, inspectors (when coins contained actual precious metals, like gold) could tell if a particular mint was producing the correct quality of coinage.
Think: Trial of the Pyx.

http://www.royalmint.com/discover/uk-coins/history-of-the-trial-of-the-pyx

Treashunt · July 20, 2017 3:23AM

@Numiven said:
Why does US coin have inverted obverse and reverse unlike coins from other countries?

I thought all (or most) countries inverted the reverse).
Reason: due to the design, it was the idea that it would strike better considering the relief on the obv v rev designs

1Mike1 · July 20, 2017 5:46AM

As tax payers, why do we pay more to produce a cent than it's worth? Then, why do we pay more money to off load those cents through a coin star machine so the coin star owner can hand them back to the bank and then the banks/businesses can hand them back to us?

Coinstartled · July 20, 2017 6:39AM

@1Mike1 said:
As tax payers, why do we pay more to produce a cent than it's worth? Then, why do we pay more money to off load those cents through a coin star machine so the coin star owner can hand them back to the bank and then the banks/businesses can hand them back to us?

Well said. I would add in nickels and dimes as well. After a year of caterwauling they would hardly be missed.

Coinstartled · July 20, 2017 6:42AM

Why do we use obverse and reverse when front and back is simpler and everyone knows what is meant?

BillDugan1959 · July 20, 2017 7:06AM

@cameonut2011 said:
Why do collectors tolerate grade inflation?

I've been doing some serious cleaning this week, found several Coin World newspapers from 1975-1976. Looking at the newspapers and especially the classified sections, I would probably guess that there were five or six persons in coins for every person left today. Grade inflation is likely part of the explanation.

Onastone · July 20, 2017 7:20AM

Moisture is obviously an enemy to coins. Many coins from the mint are sent with silica gel packs to keep them dry. Should we keep those in with our coins, throw them out, or keep them in a drawer near our coins?? And speaking of storage, is it better to store a collection in a metal cabinet vs a wooden one? Mine is currently in a wooden cabinet but I've heard that wood emits damaging gasses. If wood is so bad, why are so many coins sold in wooden boxes?

Davideo · July 20, 2017 7:32AM

@pocketpiececommems said:
Why is it harder to get a cir classic commem graded PO01 compared to Morgan dollar PO01's

I think because graders hardly see lowball commems and don't really know how to grade them/have consistent standards.

mercurydimeguy · July 20, 2017 7:50AM

Why is the coin market devoid of any regulatory elements, and why do TPGs claim no liability for the professional opinion they render for a fee like a CPA or lawyer (circular reference back to the first part of the question)?

CommemKing · July 20, 2017 7:57AM

Whats this morgan mico "O" i hear about. Are they counterfeits and is so why do they grade them?

neildrobertson · July 20, 2017 7:58AM

@Onastone said:
Moisture is obviously an enemy to coins. Many coins from the mint are sent with silica gel packs to keep them dry. Should we keep those in with our coins, throw them out, or keep them in a drawer near our coins?? And speaking of storage, is it better to store a collection in a metal cabinet vs a wooden one? Mine is currently in a wooden cabinet but I've heard that wood emits damaging gasses. If wood is so bad, why are so many coins sold in wooden boxes?

In general it's better to keep coins in a cool, dry environment. Silica Gel packs can help keep things dry, so that's moving in the right direction. If you don't live in a humid climate, then you might not ever notice the difference between having silica gel vs not having them, but it is in the general direction of goodness.

The answer to your storage question is 'it depends'. Wood can have some embedded chemicals from processing or treatment. Those chemicals can leech out over time and possibly lead to toning. Some woods will naturally have moisture and some chemical compounds in them that could impact coins as it ages over time. Wood itself is fine. Usually if you have old wood, then it is pretty stable. I think wood is still often used because it conveys an air of luxury and quality.

Most metals are pretty inert and should have very little impact on coins. Some metal cabinets or containers can have linings, coatings, or paint that could contribute to coin toning over time. Metal is not immune to some of the risks associated with wood in that sense. The main drawback of metal containers is that they do not breathe and allow for the movement of moisture. If a metal container was in an environment with temperature or humidity changes, you could be more at risk of getting condensation on a coin.

From my perspective, both wood and metal can be a wise choice.

BillDugan1959 · July 20, 2017 8:13AM

@mercurydimeguy said:
Why is the coin market devoid of any regulatory elements, and why do TPGs claim no liability for the professional opinion they render for a fee like a CPA or lawyer (circular reference back to the first part of the question)?

"Coins" are not "banking" or "stock brokerage", both of which are regulated (at least nominally). "Coins" is a minor subset of "Art and Antiques", which is still a Wild West kind of place.

braddick · July 20, 2017 8:15AM

@WinLoseWin said:

Why are coins usually round?

To prevent them from being lifted and dropped into manholes.

topstuf · July 20, 2017 8:51AM

@Coinstartled said:
Why do we use obverse and reverse when front and back is simpler and everyone knows what is meant?

We "purists" say "heads" and "tails."

Coinstartled · July 20, 2017 8:56AM

Is a PO1 Morgan with a Gold Cac sticker worth less than it was without the sticker.

CaptHenway · July 20, 2017 8:57AM

@Coinstartled said:
Why do we use obverse and reverse when front and back is simpler and everyone knows what is meant?

Because coins existed before the modern English language did?

RichieURich · July 20, 2017 9:10AM

@BillDugan1959 said:

@cameonut2011 said:
Why do collectors tolerate grade inflation?

I've been doing some serious cleaning this week, found several Coin World newspapers from 1975-1976. Looking at the newspapers and especially the classified sections, I would probably guess that there were five or six persons in coins for every person left today. Grade inflation is likely part of the explanation.

In the mid-70's, a collector had two ways to sell a coin: go to a coin shop, or run an ad in the coin papers.
Now, a collector has many ways to sell a coin, incl. eBay, his/her own website, the BST Forum here, etc.
Today's collector doesn't need to run a classified ad in a coin paper to sell coins.
The Internet has had a lot more impact on the size/content of the coin papers than grade inflation.

WingedLiberty1957 · July 20, 2017 9:12AM

Why do some ebay sellers put really high BIN prices on coins? Then when you ask them they offer it for 1/2 price.

Listen to this crazy story. Earlier this year an ebay seller had a nicely toned 1925-S Lincoln PCGS MS64BN (Guide around $400 I think) listed at $2000. I offered him $900 (which was really stretching high IMHO) which he rejected. He then countered $1200, which I passed on. Then he relisted it for $2800 BIN ($800 higher than it was before I made my offer). A few months later he sold it for $1200. If he was willing to sell it for $1200, why not list it at $1600 or something that was closer to his sell price. Are some sellers insane?

WingedLiberty1957 · July 20, 2017 9:19AM

Why are there so many cookers (AT'ers) of coins on ebay ... edynamicmarketing, etc. Do they really make money? Does anyone actually buy their dreck? I just find it hard to believe they haven't all gone out of business already. Its sad because that flood of bad material has effectively hidden the occasional gem that does pop up from a legitimate dealer. It gives all toned coins a bad name (backlash).

WingedLiberty1957 · July 20, 2017 9:21AM

Why does PCGS in almost every case list high grade RD copper at a significantly higher price than high grade BN copper -- when high grade BN copper often has a fraction of the population?

Treashunt · July 20, 2017 9:26AM

@1Mike1 said:
As tax payers, why do we pay more to produce a cent than it's worth? Then, why do we pay more money to off load those cents through a coin star machine so the coin star owner can hand them back to the bank and then the banks/businesses can hand them back to us?

One good reason is that the Senators & Representatives from Illinois are very powerful in Congress and they would refuse to allow Lincoln to be removed from circulation

BillDugan1959 · July 20, 2017 9:26AM

@RichieURich said:

@BillDugan1959 said:

@cameonut2011 said:
Why do collectors tolerate grade inflation?

I've been doing some serious cleaning this week, found several Coin World newspapers from 1975-1976. Looking at the newspapers and especially the classified sections, I would probably guess that there were five or six persons in coins for every person left today. Grade inflation is likely part of the explanation.

In the mid-70's, a collector had two ways to sell a coin: go to a coin shop, or run an ad in the coin papers.
Now, a collector has many ways to sell a coin, incl. eBay, his/her own website, the BST Forum here, etc.
Today's collector doesn't need to run a classified ad in a coin paper to sell coins.
The Internet has had a lot more impact on the size/content of the coin papers than grade inflation.

I can see that argument/reasoning a bit. Nonetheless, "Coins" isn't the popular hobby/pastime that it used to be. Back in the late 1970s, I used to be able to go to a "Club" coin show practically every weekend between October 1st and mid-March and never have to travel more than 100 miles.

Classified ad selling is also likely down because of a general decline in the trustworthiness of both sellers and buyers. eBay feedback remains of some use when dealing with unknown parties, even if it ain't what it used to be.

Treashunt · July 20, 2017 9:27AM

@WingedLiberty1957 said:
Why does PCGS in almost every case list high grade RD copper at a significantly higher price than high grade BN copper -- when high grade BN copper often has a fraction of the population?

Far more desirable in RD

Coinstartled · July 20, 2017 9:35AM

@WingedLiberty1957 said:
Why do some ebay sellers put really high BIN prices on coins? Then when you ask them they offer it for 1/2 price.

Listen to this crazy story. Earlier this year an ebay seller had a nicely toned 1925-S Lincoln PCGS MS64BN (Guide around $400 I think) listed at $2000. I offered him $900 (which was really stretching high IMHO) which he rejected. He then countered $1200, which I passed on. Then he relisted it for $2800 BIN ($800 higher than it was before I made my offer). A few months later he sold it for $1200. If he was willing to sell it for $1200, why not list it at $1600 or something that was closer to his sell price. Are some sellers insane?

Sometimes sellers want to get more money than what they are willing to sell it for. All he needed was one deep pocketed collector that really liked the toning.

cladking · July 20, 2017 9:42AM

@dpoole said:
Oh, boy. I get to ask a numismatic stupid question. Here goes:

When will the coin market come back?

Sooner than you think.

And it will be back for years before most people notice it's back.

Ask a stupid coin question thread.

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