@Dpeck100 said:
Whomever bought a PSA 8 Rose for over $18k can't be enjoying this price action. I bet the VCP chart on that card looks like the perfect bubble formation.
Would be intersting to see it. Because of overall sales volumes at those prices it might not look as intense at the peak as I invision but the fall has been relentless just like the run was.
Bet the guy that sold it is still enjoying the return.
@Dpeck100 said:
Whomever bought a PSA 8 Rose for over $18k can't be enjoying this price action. I bet the VCP chart on that card looks like the perfect bubble formation.
Would be intersting to see it. Because of overall sales volumes at those prices it might not look as intense at the peak as I invision but the fall has been relentless just like the run was.
Bet the guy that sold it is still enjoying the return.
I don't shop at the high end of the market, but the decline of the icon cards in our hobby has brought me back in. Some cards I wanted were priced so high during the peak - 1975 Brett, 1979 OPC Gretzky, etc - that I had given up ever adding them to my collection. Now, in this market, I have been able to add both cards.
If you compare 2014 to 2017, the impact of the spike is still there, so overall hobby values have risen for most collectors.
Bet the guy that sold it is still enjoying the return.
lets just call it $14k profit.
send your guys over to my house. i'd like to add an entire second story to mine. got $20k saved for the project and figure your guys should be able to knock it out for that considering!
@RookieWax said:
Let's see your 2017 data vs. 2015, or vs. 2014, or vs. 2013. See...it's easy. Shall I keep going?
I agree throw out 2016. A psa 8.5 Rose RC went from 11k to 41k in a month last year but now it's back to 16-18k. Still better then 11k but 2016 crazy prices are long gone.
Ps. Its no pool but this is what my 2016 profits got me:
I welcome a correction, especially for 86 Fleer PSA 10s. Some cards (Olajuwon, Mullin, Ewing etc) have dropped 50% or more since early 2016.
Joe
IG: goatcollectibles23
The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
@Dpeck100 said:
Whomever bought a PSA 8 Rose for over $18k can't be enjoying this price action. I bet the VCP chart on that card looks like the perfect bubble formation.
Would be intersting to see it. Because of overall sales volumes at those prices it might not look as intense at the peak as I invision but the fall has been relentless just like the run was.
Bet the guy that sold it is still enjoying the return.
Here's the pool I was able to purchase after buying up all of those 1990 Fleer Basketball Cases at $1000 each (remember that crazy time!)and reselling later when the Jordan card fell back to earth. I'm hoping to be able to expand on this layout! Thinking a fancy jacuzzi and waterfall if I can just sell another box Okay, JK!!
Here's the pool I was able to purchase after buying up all of those 1990 Fleer Basketball Cases at $1000 each (remember that crazy time!)and reselling later when the Jordan card fell back to earth. I'm hoping to be able to expand on this layout! Thinking a fancy jacuzzi and waterfall if I can just sell another box Okay, JK!!
Jenny's sell of the numerous unopened cases has hurt the graded card community. Numerous mantle's have been graded PSA 10, as well as Brett, Rose, Clemente, cards. I know I hit two 1964 topps mantle's that were both psa 9's.
It's hard to maky any assessment of up/down in this market unless we know the cards have been paid for. We're using suspect data to make generalizations about the market. It's what makes this hobby so unique, but also very hard to analyze. VCP simply puts sales data on-line with disregard for payments/shilling/fake auctions.
IMO, pick some cards that are less likely to be manipulated, but are vintage HOF's. That should give us a better idea where the market is.
Collecting PSA 9's from 1970-1977. Raw 9's from 72-77. Raw 10's from '78-'83. Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks. Prefer to buy in bulk.
@Sdub said:
It's hard to maky any assessment of up/down in this market unless we know the cards have been paid for. We're using suspect data to make generalizations about the market. It's what makes this hobby so unique, but also very hard to analyze. VCP simply puts sales data on-line with disregard for payments/shilling/fake auctions.
IMO, pick some cards that are less likely to be manipulated, but are vintage HOF's. That should give us a better idea where the market is.
Agreed. A % of sales are never paid for on ebay...what that % is i do not know. Also you cannot account for sales in a private setting, though high dollars cards do not change hands in this method more than other markets.
@Sdub said:
It's hard to maky any assessment of up/down in this market unless we know the cards have been paid for. We're using suspect data to make generalizations about the market. It's what makes this hobby so unique, but also very hard to analyze. VCP simply puts sales data on-line with disregard for payments/shilling/fake auctions.
IMO, pick some cards that are less likely to be manipulated, but are vintage HOF's. That should give us a better idea where the market is.
Agreed. A % of sales are never paid for on ebay...what that % is i do not know. Also you cannot account for sales in a private setting, though high dollars cards do not change hands in this method more than other markets.
You are correct in that a lot of high dollar cards never make eBay and are done in private. Also, there are some high prices for "sold" but paid is another thing in some cases. Last year there were several key rookies with very suspicious bids and were no question being shilled like crazy. I kept track of their user ID's and knew who was doing it and with what cards, and when I saw them bidding and retracting I stayed away from those auctions. Anyone who was bidding and buying Rookies of Clemente in PSA 7-8, Rose PSA 8, Ryan PSA 8, Koufax PSA 8, and Jordan 10's were going to overpay from March 2017 up to the National. Once the Dynamic Duo were shut down it all stopped.
Today prices are based on supply and demand, and can't use price history for some cards during the above period because it is artificial. High end centered examples of key HOF rookies command huge dollars still - don't believe me just bid on some and try to buy them. Plenty of collectors still paying good money.
It was a manipulation. It was so crazy some here, who never intended to sell, decided to do so. Of course, it was brilliant. Mr. Mint has a sweet pool that his Rose PSA 8 built.
When it was going on it the MJ was obvious. It trades so much more than the high end vintage it was blatant and easy to see in my opinion.
** Working on the following sets-2013 Spectra Football Hall of Fame 50th Anniversary Autograph set, 2015 Spectra Football Illustrious Legends Autograph set, 2014-15 Hall of Fame Heroes autograph set. **
@CrissCriss said:
LOL!!!! Now, the excuse is "cards are bought but not paid for."
My statement is actually supporting your position not refuting it. The empirical data shows card prices are coming down relative to last year for some key cards. I see it as an opportunity to buy if they drop in price. I wish it had held off for a couple of years because I had a gut feeling on the 56 Mantle back in 2014 when they were $3200-3800, and I was grabbing them as quickly as I could. Card went from $3500 to $10k plus in 2 years and it made perfect sense based on price, popularity, 3rd Topps Mantle card, Triple crown year...
I think the 52 Mantle will continue to have value, and pre war will continue to rise. As a follower and shareholder of Buffett I follow his simple mantra - "when others are greedy be fearful and when others are fearful be greedy."
@CrissCriss said:
LOL!!!! Now, the excuse is "cards are bought but not paid for."
Awesome.
No, incorrect. I'm stating that YOU do not know if these cards were paid for. YOU are the one making the analysis of the current state of the card market (which I don't disagree with you BTW). 100% of your data is from sold auctions, of which you have little, if any, evidence these were paid for. On the contrary, we have evidence of fraud, shilling, fake bidding, etc. for some of the data you are citing.
Suggesting baseball cards may be entering a bear market seems logical and compelling. For the flippers and bid smugglers, I hope we see a massive correction. I'm ready to jump when prices calm down a little bit more.
Since Kendall is quoting Buffett, I'll stay with that mantra: "It's more important to know what you don't know, then to know what you know"; something like that.
Don't take it personally CrissCross, I ike your posts.
Collecting PSA 9's from 1970-1977. Raw 9's from 72-77. Raw 10's from '78-'83. Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks. Prefer to buy in bulk.
How many people here took advantage of the spike and sold cards? I sold off about a dozen cards and made really good profits. I didn't sell the crown jewels of my collection since I bought them so long ago that I didn't think I could buy them back at the prices I paid.
I did buy into the frenzy mainly 1974-1983 Rookies - 1974 Winfield PSA 9 and the 1983 Topps BB Big 3 in PSA 10. Overpaid about 10% compared to the market now.
@ndleo said:
How many people here took advantage of the spike and sold cards? I sold off about a dozen cards and made really good profits. I didn't sell the crown jewels of my collection since I bought them so long ago that I didn't think I could buy them back at the prices I paid.
I did buy into the frenzy mainly 1974-1983 Rookies - 1974 Winfield PSA 9 and the 1983 Topps BB Big 3 in PSA 10. Overpaid about 10% compared to the market now.
Nope. I actually took advantage in an opposite direction by acquiring a handful of nice examples of cards which surfaced while the spike was taking place. I had to assume they were out there because the sellers also observed a detectable opportunity to cash in. Now after a year or so of watching fluctuations, I'm still comfortable with the process, as only one card out of several purchased seems to have taken a substantial dip. The others have maintained or increased in value. I won't even mention what they are. I continue to pursue them as investments.
@ndleo said:
How many people here took advantage of the spike and sold cards? I sold off about a dozen cards and made really good profits. I didn't sell the crown jewels of my collection since I bought them so long ago that I didn't think I could buy them back at the prices I paid.
I did buy into the frenzy mainly 1974-1983 Rookies - 1974 Winfield PSA 9 and the 1983 Topps BB Big 3 in PSA 10. Overpaid about 10% compared to the market now.
Nope. I actually took advantage in an opposite direction by acquiring a handful of nice examples of cards which surfaced while the spike was taking place. I had to assume they were out there because the sellers also observed a detectable opportunity to cash in. Now after a year or so of watching fluctuations, I'm still comfortable with the process, as only one card out of several purchased seems to have taken a substantial dip. The others have maintained or increased in value. I won't even mention what they are. I continue to pursue them as investments.
I did some contrarian buying as well. I went big into 2000 FB Boxes and we all know how that turned out. I would like to thank Kyle Shanahan for his playcalling in the 2nd half.
@ndleo said:
How many people here took advantage of the spike and sold cards? I sold off about a dozen cards and made really good profits. I didn't sell the crown jewels of my collection since I bought them so long ago that I didn't think I could buy them back at the prices I paid.
sold a few and bought a few. was just another day.
I'm a newby on the forum but am I missing something? The OP was just stating facts from stats the he researched. His post wasn't biased. And who cares if certain sales prices were "manipulated" or not- it still went for those prices.
No no no you don't get it. We're not bashing him. You need to understand the intent of the OP. It's kinda like when the Soup Of The Day is Mixed Vegetable. Some people like Mixed Vegetable Soup. Some don't. Some eat it because it's healthy. Some won't for the same reason. Some will feed it to the dog first and see what kind of reaction they get. And some will buy it simply based on the notion that soup is good food. The next day the soup might be Tomato with Rice. But we need to wait until it's served before we pass judgment or reach for the Pepto.
I think prices have gone down some on some cards , but the point about many of the top sales during the high period not being completed is a legitimate one, dancing or not.
Bought this for $250 years ago. Hopefully it has not dropped below that yet
@AaronfromKy said:
I'm a newby on the forum but am I missing something? The OP was just stating facts from stats the he researched. His post wasn't biased. And who cares if certain sales prices were "manipulated" or not- it still went for those prices.
@AaronfromKy said:
I'm a newby on the forum but am I missing something? The OP was just stating facts from stats the he researched. His post wasn't biased. And who cares if certain sales prices were "manipulated" or not- it still went for those prices.
@AaronfromKy said:
I'm a newby on the forum but am I missing something? The OP was just stating facts from stats the he researched. His post wasn't biased. And who cares if certain sales prices were "manipulated" or not- it still went for those prices.
@Dpeck100 said:
Whomever bought a PSA 8 Rose for over $18k can't be enjoying this price action. I bet the VCP chart on that card looks like the perfect bubble formation.
Would be intersting to see it. Because of overall sales volumes at those prices it might not look as intense at the peak as I invision but the fall has been relentless just like the run was.
Bet the guy that sold it is still enjoying the return.
The pool is ok ..the deck is what impresses me ..wow... very well designed ,,beautiful
@AaronfromKy said:
I'm a newby on the forum but am I missing something? The OP was just stating facts from stats the he researched. His post wasn't biased. And who cares if certain sales prices were "manipulated" or not- it still went for those prices.
Why are some of you bashing him?
alt?
The problem is that Criss (Yoda) says a lot of crazy things all the time, and when he actually posts something with substance no one listens or give much relevance.
Alt means alternative account.
He is implying that Criss(yoda) has a different account and asked that question with his alternative account.
No. Criss doesn't have a alt account. It's just a guy that I guess has a lot to learn. I didn't know the OP did stuff like that. That's what I was missing when I posted that. I wasn't trying to make waves. Thank you lawyer05
Comments
Bet the guy that sold it is still enjoying the return.
That's a nice $18K pool!
Oh hell yeah!!!!!
Let's see your 2017 data vs. 2015, or vs. 2014, or vs. 2013. See...it's easy. Shall I keep going?
Let's also see your data on the 1990 Topps NNOF Frank Thomas.
I don't shop at the high end of the market, but the decline of the icon cards in our hobby has brought me back in. Some cards I wanted were priced so high during the peak - 1975 Brett, 1979 OPC Gretzky, etc - that I had given up ever adding them to my collection. Now, in this market, I have been able to add both cards.
If you compare 2014 to 2017, the impact of the spike is still there, so overall hobby values have risen for most collectors.
lets just call it $14k profit.
send your guys over to my house. i'd like to add an entire second story to mine. got $20k saved for the project and figure your guys should be able to knock it out for that considering!
complete w elevator, naturally.
I agree throw out 2016. A psa 8.5 Rose RC went from 11k to 41k in a month last year but now it's back to 16-18k. Still better then 11k but 2016 crazy prices are long gone.
Ps. Its no pool but this is what my 2016 profits got me:
I welcome a correction, especially for 86 Fleer PSA 10s. Some cards (Olajuwon, Mullin, Ewing etc) have dropped 50% or more since early 2016.
IG: goatcollectibles23
The biggest lesson I've learned in this hobby, and in life, is that if you have a strong conviction, you owe it to yourself to see it through. Don't sell yourself, or your investments, short. Unless the facts change. Then sell it all.
that is sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's the pool I was able to purchase after buying up all of those 1990 Fleer Basketball Cases at $1000 each (remember that crazy time!)and reselling later when the Jordan card fell back to earth. I'm hoping to be able to expand on this layout! Thinking a fancy jacuzzi and waterfall if I can just sell another box
Okay, JK!!
Work in progress - Unopened Racks/Cello/Wax with star power for Baseball, Football and Basketball
Collecting unopened 80's boxes and graded packs
I may be hoarding too much 80's junk wax but I like it!
Here's your jacuzzi attachment:
Kevin
Kevin
Thanks Kevin. You just made coffee squirt out of my nose.
Jenny's sell of the numerous unopened cases has hurt the graded card community. Numerous mantle's have been graded PSA 10, as well as Brett, Rose, Clemente, cards. I know I hit two 1964 topps mantle's that were both psa 9's.
Gotta admit Crisser keeps this place interesting
Dang it. I had to agree. So stressed.
i guess "interesting" is a word for it lol
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
It's hard to maky any assessment of up/down in this market unless we know the cards have been paid for. We're using suspect data to make generalizations about the market. It's what makes this hobby so unique, but also very hard to analyze. VCP simply puts sales data on-line with disregard for payments/shilling/fake auctions.
IMO, pick some cards that are less likely to be manipulated, but are vintage HOF's. That should give us a better idea where the market is.
Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks.
Prefer to buy in bulk.
Agreed. A % of sales are never paid for on ebay...what that % is i do not know. Also you cannot account for sales in a private setting, though high dollars cards do not change hands in this method more than other markets.
You are correct in that a lot of high dollar cards never make eBay and are done in private. Also, there are some high prices for "sold" but paid is another thing in some cases. Last year there were several key rookies with very suspicious bids and were no question being shilled like crazy. I kept track of their user ID's and knew who was doing it and with what cards, and when I saw them bidding and retracting I stayed away from those auctions. Anyone who was bidding and buying Rookies of Clemente in PSA 7-8, Rose PSA 8, Ryan PSA 8, Koufax PSA 8, and Jordan 10's were going to overpay from March 2017 up to the National. Once the Dynamic Duo were shut down it all stopped.
Today prices are based on supply and demand, and can't use price history for some cards during the above period because it is artificial. High end centered examples of key HOF rookies command huge dollars still - don't believe me just bid on some and try to buy them. Plenty of collectors still paying good money.
KC
It was a manipulation. It was so crazy some here, who never intended to sell, decided to do so. Of course, it was brilliant. Mr. Mint has a sweet pool that his Rose PSA 8 built.
When it was going on it the MJ was obvious. It trades so much more than the high end vintage it was blatant and easy to see in my opinion.
My statement is actually supporting your position not refuting it. The empirical data shows card prices are coming down relative to last year for some key cards. I see it as an opportunity to buy if they drop in price. I wish it had held off for a couple of years because I had a gut feeling on the 56 Mantle back in 2014 when they were $3200-3800, and I was grabbing them as quickly as I could. Card went from $3500 to $10k plus in 2 years and it made perfect sense based on price, popularity, 3rd Topps Mantle card, Triple crown year...
I think the 52 Mantle will continue to have value, and pre war will continue to rise. As a follower and shareholder of Buffett I follow his simple mantra - "when others are greedy be fearful and when others are fearful be greedy."
Has anyone ever made an index of the "top 50" cards and tracked it?
I've often wondered what such an index would correlate with in the markets. Small caps? High-yield?
Perhaps a drop in the "Dow Jones" of cards could serve as a canary in a coal mine for other types of assets.
I've certainly never done this type of research, and do not have time to, but I could certainly see why someone would be interested.
No, incorrect. I'm stating that YOU do not know if these cards were paid for. YOU are the one making the analysis of the current state of the card market (which I don't disagree with you BTW). 100% of your data is from sold auctions, of which you have little, if any, evidence these were paid for. On the contrary, we have evidence of fraud, shilling, fake bidding, etc. for some of the data you are citing.
Suggesting baseball cards may be entering a bear market seems logical and compelling. For the flippers and bid smugglers, I hope we see a massive correction. I'm ready to jump when prices calm down a little bit more.
Since Kendall is quoting Buffett, I'll stay with that mantra: "It's more important to know what you don't know, then to know what you know"; something like that.
Don't take it personally CrissCross, I ike your posts.
Collecting Unopened from '72-'83; mostly BBCE certified boxes/cases/racks.
Prefer to buy in bulk.
How many people here took advantage of the spike and sold cards? I sold off about a dozen cards and made really good profits. I didn't sell the crown jewels of my collection since I bought them so long ago that I didn't think I could buy them back at the prices I paid.
I did buy into the frenzy mainly 1974-1983 Rookies - 1974 Winfield PSA 9 and the 1983 Topps BB Big 3 in PSA 10. Overpaid about 10% compared to the market now.
Nope. I actually took advantage in an opposite direction by acquiring a handful of nice examples of cards which surfaced while the spike was taking place. I had to assume they were out there because the sellers also observed a detectable opportunity to cash in. Now after a year or so of watching fluctuations, I'm still comfortable with the process, as only one card out of several purchased seems to have taken a substantial dip. The others have maintained or increased in value. I won't even mention what they are. I continue to pursue them as investments.
I did some contrarian buying as well. I went big into 2000 FB Boxes and we all know how that turned out. I would like to thank Kyle Shanahan for his playcalling in the 2nd half.
the only data i have:
sold a few and bought a few. was just another day.
Showoff.
now that is cool!
I'm a newby on the forum but am I missing something? The OP was just stating facts from stats the he researched. His post wasn't biased. And who cares if certain sales prices were "manipulated" or not- it still went for those prices.
Why are some of you bashing him?
No no no you don't get it. We're not bashing him. You need to understand the intent of the OP. It's kinda like when the Soup Of The Day is Mixed Vegetable. Some people like Mixed Vegetable Soup. Some don't. Some eat it because it's healthy. Some won't for the same reason. Some will feed it to the dog first and see what kind of reaction they get. And some will buy it simply based on the notion that soup is good food. The next day the soup might be Tomato with Rice. But we need to wait until it's served before we pass judgment or reach for the Pepto.
I think prices have gone down some on some cards , but the point about many of the top sales during the high period not being completed is a legitimate one, dancing or not.
Bought this for $250 years ago. Hopefully it has not dropped below that yet
Bowman Baseball -1948-1955
Fleer Baseball-1923, 1959-2007
Al
Oh no Travis! Say it ain't so!
Kevin
Kevin
alt?
Forgive me. I don't know what alt means.
Oh boy..................
The pool is ok ..the deck is what impresses me ..wow... very well designed ,,beautiful
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
The problem is that Criss (Yoda) says a lot of crazy things all the time, and when he actually posts something with substance no one listens or give much relevance.
Alt means alternative account.
He is implying that Criss(yoda) has a different account and asked that question with his alternative account.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_players_from_Panama
I hope Travis T's time out is a short one.
No. Criss doesn't have a alt account. It's just a guy that I guess has a lot to learn. I didn't know the OP did stuff like that. That's what I was missing when I posted that. I wasn't trying to make waves. Thank you lawyer05
Thanks
I've never seen anyone return from T.O. Does it happen?
Kevin
Kevin
What happened to Travis? Didn't always agree, but enjoyed having him around
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.