Did it CAC.2? Barber Quarters
Desert Moon
Posts: 6,078 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hello folks,
I decided over the past couple years that I would like to have some barber quarters and halves in 25 to 55-ish grades. I did not want to go for colorful tones, but good old fashioned gray, which contrasts for what I have done with other silver series. To me the essence of the barber series' are to get coins that were circulated, and the coins I want come right out of circulation with no intentional human assistance, full of dirt and grime, and no obvious album long-term residence (or taco bell napkins ;-)) that can give the pretty tones we all know and love. Good, old fashioned, silver coins, that maybe Grandpa had in his hand at the Woolworth's back in the day. The other advantage to going this route is that most of these are common and not too expensive, unlike some of the crazy prices I have paid for other coins from other series. So getting back to having fun with not much financial input.
I have been reluctant to buy any though because simply I do not know what the surfaces should look like when pristine and unmessed with and not seeing in hand and buying online can be a crap shoot when looking for total unmessed with examples. Fortunately, this year, a prominent dealer who knows barbers like no other had several offerings in these coins. He is perhaps one of the most picky numismatists out there in dealing with unmessed with coins. which is something that CAC appreciates as well. So I was able to pick up 4 quarters and 3 halves.
Here are the quarters - are they CAC? What do you think? Halves will appear in another thread.
Best, SH
Comments
Nice original coins,,,,, I suspect that they all CAC'ed,,,,, if not they are still keeper's.
If one didn't I would guess the 1916-D Quarter,,,,,
Splendid! Of course they all stickered.
Lance.
I'm thinking all four coins received stickers, but your graphic for the 1916-D Barber quarter that states "San Francisco Mint" might fail the process.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
All are beautiful examples! I think all may CAC, although the 16-D is borderline IMO.
Great quarters (and pics!).
Dave
Nice coins, only the 1898 failed to earn a green bean. Looks more like a VF35.
Doug
Nice group of coins. I love Barbers in these circ grades, and they can be very attractive when they come like this.
Its hard saying if they would pass, as I have not seen a whole lot of these coins Cac'ed. If I had a gold star to give, your 1907 would get it.
Nice coins and enjoy the hunt for more Barbers. All but the 1916D
I admire the mission statement and the coins pictured. I just do not see the need for CAC with these. These are all nice original coins with reasonable and appropriate grades.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Good looking Barbers...I just don't know.
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1915 gets a bean IMO and is a coin that I would purchase.
While the rest are nice coins, They are not high end enough for the grade IMO for me to purchase with or without a bean.
Joe.
Well, that and Pennsylvania might not agree with the spelling of its largest city... (I am not a spell-check cop, though I play one on TV...)
One of the problems with guessing grades with photos is that you really can't see the mint luster. In an ideal world, the luster should shake out like this in the following grades.
EF-40 - No luster, but all of the detail in the design should be defined with light overall wear.
EF-45 - Trace luster appears in the protected areas.
AU-50 - The "cartwheel luster" is broken in the fields, but there is a great deal of it in the protected areas.
AU-55 - The "cartwheel luster" is barely broken
AU-58 - The "cartwheel luster" is complete or virtually complete. There is very light wear on the high points of the coin.
From the photos of your four coins, I would make the following speculations:
1915, EF-40 - Slam dunk - should get a green bean.
1916-D, AU-50 - Appears to have enough soft luster between the letters and around the stars to rate the grade.
1898, EF-40 - It has the sharpness, the color looks a little to "white" from a possible dip or cleaning.
1907, EF-45 - looks like green bean coin to me. It might even rate a "+."
My guess is that none of them CACed.
I would not bother to send them to CAC.... they are nice coins in original, circulated condition. If you are truly 'collecting' them, why worry about a CAC sticker? Unless, you have intents to sell...Cheers, RickO
All look really nice to me. I love this look in Barbers. It's just fun to look at.
I'll vote they all get a bean. The 1907 is my favorite.
Oops, corrected, thanks for pointing it out - I am sometimes dyslexic with my mints......
Man O'Man (Irish for I am a dumb a**), I need a spell checker in Photoshop apparently. Thanks .2 for pointing this out, corrected all 3.
Bill - if the 1898 was dipped, how does it manage to have all of that dirt and grunge in the recessed areas of the surfaces?
Best, SH
I just don't care for the bright look to it the fields. I think that a totally original coin in this grade and with this amount of age should have more of a gray look to it,.
Don't get me wrong. They are all nice coins, and finding these pieces in these grades is hard, probably harder than finding them in Mint State. The Great Depression killed these coins. They are usually Mint State because they were saved by collectors, or they are in Good or AG because they were spent.
I did not notice it being bright in hand - perhaps it is just my photography? I can darken it adjusting Exposure or Levels in PS....
But generally I shoot and put into the composite image with minimal adjusting, if any, from the original image.
But yes, hard to find in these grades unscrubbed which is why it is fun (and not too expensive).
Because at some point if I start buying expensive Barbers, I want to know where the problems lie, so getting the opinion of CAC goes way beyond just these 4 quarters - it is all about learning.
Best, SH
Nice coins don't always get approved by CAC.
Looks like we have enough evaluations to reveal the outcome. All but the 1916-D got a CAC. Some of you mentioned the 16-D may not have passed - I would be curious to hear your reasons why it did not.
Best, SH
This is not my series, but the 1916-D does not seem to have enough luster IMHO. I would have called it XF45.
That is my lack of ability to capture the luster in the image - it is more lustrous than any of the XF's above. It is also the LED lights I used - should have used the halogens which bring out contrast and luster better, but in the summer - these lights are very hot and thus not fun to use.
Best, SH
Clearly, my standards for Barber coins are significantly stricter than CAC.
I felt the 16-d was borderline, due to a few very light scratches on the cheek. I also felt the other dates had a bit more of an original 'look'. I'm really splitting hairs here as a love them all, and I live in the mid-grade Barber world. All are fantastic examples IMO.
Dave
I would have guessed the 1898 was the one that didn't. The 1915 is a tad better than the 1898 to my eyes.
And apparently one of the leading graders in the country for whom I bought these from............... If these don't work for you I can't imagine what would if you are a Barber collector - just sayin'.......
I noticed the scratches too and you might be right - there are two that seem to form an 'X', subtle, but maybe......
I realize spacehayduke hasn't written it out in this thread, but all four Barber quarters were obtained from me. Therefore, I have seen them all in-hand and while I expected all four to receive a CAC sticker, the only coin I would have hesitated on was the 1916-D. They are nice, original coins and I have been known to know a thing or two about coin surfaces.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I think Barber fanatic's beef with those coins is he tends to like deeper toning, I do disagree with him and also look at the 16-D as a 45 alias no CAC!
I fully agree, if anyone is ever wondering about the surfaces of a coin, take it to Tom and get an education. Thanks Tom.
Best, SH
None CAC'd.
They only sticker coins they would want to buy, and I don't think they'd go for lower (non-MS) grades
BHNC #203
HI Treas,
I already posted the results. 3 CAC'd out of 4. CAC is a wholesaler of slabbed coins, why would they not want to buy worn coins?
Best, SH
In my Barber collecting heyday (the mid 90s to mid 00s), an XF was required to have main feather outline detail all the way out to the wing tips and edges as one of the primary factors for that grade. One could make an exception for notorious weak strike dates (like those from the New Orleans mint) if the other details warranted it. By the grading standards I'm accustomed to:
15 - VF35
98 - VF30
07 - XF40 (borderline)
16-D - XF40 (borderline)
Clearly the grading standards for mid-grade Barbers have become more lax. Or perhaps, "loose" is a better descriptor.
My hesitancy has nothing to do with toning. It has everything to do with remaining detail.
And yeah... I admit I'm PICKY.
And I agree that @TomB is definitely one of the leading experts on coin surfaces. He's one of (maybe the only) dealer who I would trust enough to buy a coin from his description and recommendation alone without photos.
My experience is many of the reverses on quarters don't strike up as well on the quarters compared to the half's. The surface quality of those coins do warrant the grades assigned IMO.
When I looked at the coins I liked the 1907 better than the 1916 D, so I figured if one would not sticker it would be the 16 D since it was graded higher than the 1907, which I liked better. I love this forum it is helping me learn.
I understand what @BarberFanatic is writing about with respect to Barber coinage. In my experience, BarberFanatic would be on the (very) short list of folks to get to know if you desire to understand the nuances of Barber coinage, especially quarters and half dollars. BarberFanatic also has, if I recall correctly, a superb eye for original surfaces and for picking out coins that look "like they should". Also in my experience, the grading standards that what we saw from the third part grading (TPG) services 15-20 years ago are generally not what we see today and this includes all Barber quarters and half dollars from PO3 on up through superb gem MS. This is a niche where a pretty decent shift occurred in the TPG thinking and it has affected many raw coin transactions, as well.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I must have attended the same 'old school' as BarberFanatic.
This thread has been very educational for me, especially since my hoard of better dates are all raw.
It looks like the grading shift that has occurred in the Barber series' is probably to your advantage and maybe time to get them graded?
Best, SH
Out of this group I only had the 11D as making XF:
Out of this group I only had the 11D as making XF: