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You've sent 10 coins to CAC
topstuf
Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭
5 come back with stickers, 5 come back without.
What would.... you.... do?
You've sent 10 coins to CAC
This is a private poll: no-one will see what you voted for.
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I chose sell them all, but that isn't because of CAC or submission results per se.
All depends upon the individual coins and my collecting goals at the time. It has nothing to do with that result.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
I'd guess depends on why the 5 didn't pass. Low end for the grade I can deal with. Over graded ( maybe I missed something) or problem I can't. Those I would off.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
And what would be YOUR clue? I'm assuming that if you bought them in the first place,....YOU...approved them.
With your money.
No?
If we are to ...BELIEVE....them (????) the only reason for rejection would BE that they were "lower end of grade."
If you MISSED something and they were OVERGRADED, then I would think the grading company could be the remedy.
When I submit to CAC I enclose a note that tells them to just throw away any coins that don't sticker as they are worthless to me without the "BEAN"
Damn! I can only HOPE that's sarcasm that will NOT come to pass.
But...... who knows?
But what if I'm only sending coins to QA or WINGS ?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
If a missed a problem with a coin it's just as much on me. It happens. Getting a PCGS to downgrade a coin would be indeed be one possible remedy.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I can't agree with that. If that's true, it means that the grading is simply unnecessary. If the coin gets a "grade" there's no reason to think that it's "on you" if you make a "mistake."
Raw, sure. Graded? No way.
Then start a poll to get your answer.
Mark, you bring up another consideration.
If a coin does NOT pass the expert, infallible, bygawd for shure, gold medal, scrutiny of the god of all grades, then it follows that having a coin regraded DOWN....."should" bring it into ...um..."conformity" with the holy standards.
How many grades down to you ask them to grade it?
I've sort of concluded that if CAC doesn't sticker a coin I thought they would, it's flawed in some way. I'll look those over again extra carefully but find they aren't as necessary as I thought they once were.
So mistakes aren't made? I wrote the check. I have to be part of the blame.
Anyways why bother sending in the coins to CAC if one is not going to bother to learn from it. To me that is a lot of the point of sending them in
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
You've sent 10 coins to CAC, 5 beaned, you.....
What Mark said, I would want to know why the 5 missed prior to any decision. Sometimes sell, sometimes not, depends on alot of factors, rarity (if rare I am more forgiving of issues and learn from the decision and avoid next time), what the problem is, whether cracking and getting into a lower grade holder solves the problem (which for unmessed with coins does work), or if the coin was messed with. CAC is pretty darn good on identifying messed with coins. But I have examples of slightly messed with coins (for example subtle spot removal that is not obvious until CAC points it out) that is otherwise all there that failed CAC that I am keeping in the near future. Then there are some I have parted ways with.
Best, SH
I couldn't vote. There wasn't a "I wouldn't have sent them in in the first place."
I'm in the keep them all camp.
The majority of my coins were purchased before CAC existed, so I enjoy them for what they are with or without a sticker.
Since CAC started up the majority of the coins I have purchased have been CAC'd but that is probably just because the nice looking coins for the grade end up with sticker before they are offered for sale.
I thought about getting submission privileges but decided not to follow through. I figured why go to the time and expense before I'm actually ready to sell. I enjoy the coin as it is.
When I have sold off some coins, they are submitted to CAC as part of the auction process. At that point it's like getting your paper back from your grade school teacher with a star attached or a needs improvement message
But in either case it's on to a new owner.
I send the same note to QA and James disposes of them for me,,,,,,,
I've kept some, I've disposed of some. Depends on the reason they didn't bean.
In general, if I think the coin would bean at some reasonable other grade, I'll generally keep it. If it would never bean, then I'll kick it to the curb.
The PREMISE of grade approval should be the ENTIRE range of the grade.
Otherwise, grading is moot and degrees become the norm.
It's either a VF20 or it's NOT.
My opinion.
I would punish those bad, evil non-stickered coins by freeing them from their safe plastic tombs and force them into a hard, rough life as circulation coins.
Everyone wants to split hairs when it comes to grading.
I suppose that's why there are four grades of VF 20,25,30,35
And we are supposed (if we buy the gimmick) to believe that those are really TWELVE grades.
Taking A,B, and C rates on each of those divisions.
I'd sell some, sticker/no sticker, and put that toward some dark side stuff
I keep some and I sell some. Not having a bean on the coin does not diminish it's value in my eyes.
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One man does not make a market.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/133461
voted would not care, I wanted a would not submit option.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset/133461
When you put it that way, it does seem a little crazy.
Light!
Light at the end of the tunnel!
If we were to legitimize the whole concept, we'd have to assume that darkside coins are most likely questionably graded.
Well, If you say I sent them in, the only thing I can imagine happened is that I was convinced, (by myself, or by someone else), that I would increase the sale value by being CAC'ed. So, I would apparently be planning to sell, and would sell them all.
I can't imagine why I would send coins to CAC that I intended to keep in my collection! They don't automatically become better in my eyes just because of the sticker....
Their opinion not a factor for me - mine is. I would rather use the money buy nice coin vs their opinion. I would vote on not submit option. I don't answer to anyone in this business. One guys opinion whether it gets sticker - It's a step backwards...and a cash cow for him. Why subsidize that.
I have seen great stuff that didn't bean.
Keep them if you like them, if not, sell them.
But, you liked them when you bought them.
BHNC #203
Obviously, I would keep them all..... I purchased them because I liked them....not to sell. Do you sell your children if they do not get all A's on their report card? (Do they even have report cards anymore?) Cheers, RickO
I would not sell anything because CAC didn't like it. I have only purchased two coins because CAC DID LIKE THEM, and I have never passed on buying a coin solely because CAC didn't like it.
To me the CAC evaluation is largely centered on getting an evaluation on whether there was too much intentional human assistance to the coin surfaces. I doubt if most of us are as good at detecting that as those at CAC with decades of experience and probably 100,000s of coins evaluated, otherwise the coin docs would not be so successful. They are extremely good at identifying messed with coins. So with that in mind, their opinion is worth every penny of $13.50 if it passes and nothing if it does not. So while indeed it is a cash cow for CAC to evaluate all coins for stickers so that they can easily know which coins to buy for their wholesale buisness, the collateral effect to the collector is a great evaluation on coin surfaces. For 10 coins, if 5 pass, we are talking $67.50, let's say $30 ship and insure each way, so around the price of a MS65 common morgan to get an amazing education that pays off over time in being a better selector of purchases. Not sure how that is a backwards step, to me a collector, it is a step forwards.
BTW, when this whole thing CAC started a decade ago, I was on the negative side of what they were doing because I expected perfection which they clearly are not. But again, there is tremendous value in getting their evaluations on coin surfaces that go way beyond the coins you send in, so that has turned my opinion to the positive.
Best, SH
ditto
Many collectors and dealers only buy coins in plastic already; I buy a lot of raw coins to send in. It is a lot of work to get coins double certified, PCGS cac, I have not been sending in much lately to cac, PCGS and NGC are enough. CAC is just another opinion though something of a money based one. They are sometimes wrong or too strict. Maybe the two main grading services should have a box to check on the submission form "grade so cac will sticker".
I like the turn this thread has taken.
The issue isn't the cost of sending the coins in and the value of "thinking" you are now ASSURED that nothing has been done to them in the past 200+ years.
The issue is what that old bugaboo, "the market" will do to the value of your coins WHEN you do decide to sell or bequeath them.
As I study more and more on the service, it also looks like if "beans" were necessary, all EARLY circulated coins would be perceived as ...flawed.
I'm even wondering if JA has enough experience with the older issues to feel he can evaluate those.
My findings are that VERY few coins prior to 1808 get ....approved.
I remain of the opinion that CAC will (if it has not already) do extreme damage to hobby collectors of coins.
Those who are experts in the area of Charlotte and Dahlonega gold express similar reservations about JA's ability to evaluate those coins as well. I have a Bechtler one dollar gold piece in PCGS EF-40 with a gold CAC sticker that is "over beaned." It might rate the green bean, although it could be marginal for that, but never the gold bean. I bought the coin in 2011 when I didn't know better.
While Option #2 was what I realistically should have voted, I liked another one of your poll options even more.
"Those who are experts in the area of Charlotte and Dahlonega gold express similar reservations about JA's ability to evaluate those coins as well." I'm wondering, who are these experts?
I did what? No, I didn't, and wouldn't.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
My coins that did not CAC sticker, I got an explanation on everyone. This was at the very beginning of CAC in Oct. of 2007 at the first Coinfest Show. 86% passed and I was told why the others did not. Mainly, it was lack of eye appeal. Having John look at my coins, helped me greatly and was tons of FUN!!! Sold about 6 that did not sticker and replaced them with more eye appealing coins. But, I have also sold CAC coins for more eye appealing ones. My never ending search to find the right coin, with the right eye appeal, at the right price.....
Keep what you like and enjoy. Don't let someone else's opinion make you have regrets later if you decide to sell based on said opinion.
A much respected dealer who has been buying and selling southern gold since the late 1960s.
Keep them. Keep them ALL.
Absolutely.
What WE do regarding CAC is what will determine the eventual shakeout.
In this field of numismatics with so many exactitudes, we are asked to place a HUGE amount of faith in an examination of a coin where the evaluator can't even get ...TO... the surface.
No "sniffing" even.
But seriously, in further analysis of the gimmick, we are even (supposedly) being led to think that even the plastic the coin is viewed THROUGH is another element of "originality."
A true valid praise of a COIN should not matter in which ....plastic... it resides.
CAC in NO way enhances the desirability of a coin in any way ....OTHER THAN ..... creating a nebulous "hoopla" with which to ....MARKET.... coins for the dealer who chooses to emphasize the service.
"Hey man, I have a coin that was actually .....stickered..... in a great moment of history."
Not when the TPG refuses to downgrade the coin. You are then stuck with an in-between-coin that now suffers from impaired liquidity because it doesn't have a sticker. There are obvious exceptions, but large numbers of collectors will look the other way because of the absence of a CAC sticker.
If they were good enough to buy in the first place, they are good enough to keep even if they don't bean.
Collector, occasional seller