Why the bad rap with Booker T. Washington Commems?
CommemKing
Posts: 2,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
Everyone says this is their least desired commems in the 50 piece set. I know millions and millions of them were minted, but it's one of my favorite coins in the set. I love the reverse design. The obverse leaves a bit to be desired, but all together I love these coins. I have a small hoard of them. They are mostly all white, but the thing is, these babies tend to tone real nice. That means you can find wonderful examples of BTW's for very cheap and they still look great in your collection. This is not to mention the great mind and person BTW was. These coins below are very low on the value scale, but off the charts on coolness. You can't beat that combination. Please show me your finest looking BTW commem!
They say this one is worth $50. I beg to differ.
This beauty cost me less than $75.
This was another ebay cheapy:
This was another cheapy off ebay. I sold it with my 50 piece commem set.
Comments
I should add that the lot of those coins pictured cost under $275.
Cluttered design, mediocre artistry, and dull portrait. Far too many issued. Not really much to commend the coin except the man being honored. Reminds me of the Iowa or South Carolina messes, too.
Multiple issues, poor design and last classic commem issue
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I like them and have a nice set in a Capital holder, along with the Washington-Carvers. I know there is some issue as to how many were distributed, but my Redbook says that 13 of the 18 in the series have distributions of 7,004 or less. I can't imagine that I paid over $100 for any one of them.
The coins were continuously issued for no other good reason than greed, and as I recall the money earned mostly went to the sponsors, not some worthwhile cause.
I just don't like the design. Actually there are only a few old silver commemorative designs I like and own those. Maybe I would be interested in a couple of more old commemoratives but this one isn't on the list.
Very cool, I like the 2nd one best.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Well, do we consider the Carver-Washington to be a separate issue or not? Can be argued either way.
Cluttered design,
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
I have a set, but there was no real reason for so many dates/mms except for greed, so I understand people not caring.
I've seen a half dozen that were truly stunning. Most are weakly struck and bag marked. The design is meh.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Here is mine.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
That's quite the reverse, Bob!!!
The design isn't nearly as cluttered as some of the more appreciated designs. Look at the Norfolk, Texas, and Grant. I guess this one will never win in a crowd. In any event there were Oregons minted for over 10 years. Boone and Texas were minted for a while too. I guess that is good for me. There are millions out there for me to choose from. I have done pretty well so far.
Here's another beauty that I have sold:
These BTW's are quite pretty. A complete set of toned ones like these would make a good display.
I like the BTW much better than the Wash/Carver.
I like the tone of the OP coins...just not the design.
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Yes it could. During the McCarthy era the stated purpose for the funds generated from the sale of the Washington-Carver pieces was, "to fight the spread of communism among American Negros." The original designs actually had that phrase as the legend around the edge of the coin. Not even the red baters could handle that one so "Americanism" took its place.
I've always really liked the reverse- I don't have a problem with them other than there are a glut of them on the market, even MS66 coins with insane, rainbow toning can be readily found. If you could somehow transfer that toning to the more lifeless coins like Monroes or Pan Pacs you'd have some amazing coins.
An full 18 coin coin CAC set of coins would actually be pretty fun to build.
I like them, don't mind the design, and have quite a few toned ones.
I don't think it's nearly as cluttered as some others--Texas comes to mind.
And the Coin is really nice as well.
Holy crap! I never noticed this before, the building on the top of the reverse is the library at Bronx Community College. I used to teach there many years ago.
I like them
Here's mine, fresh from grading. NGC MS63 PL.
The Hall of Fame for Great Americans half-encircles the library. It was originally built by NYU which sold it to CUNY which then created the Bronx Community College.
More info below:
Several of these dates come proof like. I had fun building a PL set several years ago.
Uber common and generally boring
Latin American Collection
Like numerous large portrait coins, they get some heavy abrasions on the facial high points that don't lend to "eye appeal." Lots of uncs "look" to have friction.
I'm not so hard on these coins. Booker T. Washington and George Washington Carver were both great men who rose from very humble circumstances. They deserved to be on a U.S. commemorative coin. The trouble is the person who got control of the sales program feathered his own nest instead of putting the money to good causes.
When I was looking for these two pieces for my old commemorative coin type set, I have to confess that my parameters were very restrictive. I would not pay over $10 for the coins. Here are the coin in my set.
I find the design to be the least inspired of the commems, on par with the Washington Carver, but they tend to be found very nicely toned so that's a saving grace for this issue.
Commems and Early Type
Exactly. A good idea ruined by greed.
way common or not i still like the design. fwiw.
For an educator in todays school system, seems like a neat way to cheaply bring in a numismatic element to history lesson.
I like the fact that there are cheap, common dates/mints as well as low mintage scarce coins in these series.
Some of the toned examples shown here are really beautiful.
Bill Joneses' creamy lustrous examples are quite a deal at <$10 each, too.
Texas design may be even busier than this but I like busy designs, especially the Texas. Design on these areOK but certainly not one of the strong points.
You all have me convinced - if these coins are that unloved and unappreciated then I am going to start collecting them. I am guessing I can get a lot more for my money with in an unpopular series.
I'm with RWB on multiple levels of clumsiness of design. These issues are "quasi-classic" in historical context, the "red-headed step-child" for collectors of classics.
Let's not forget the racial component. I, like many others, may not have used the "N" word, but heard it way too often, often (back then) by those who touted their own "Americanism" the most strongly. I like many others, kept their mouths shut.
Let's see? The years they were made the KKK was big in southern Indiana. I practiced "head between my knees" in third grade. Back then, it was very widely believed across the country that the people helping Negroes, well a lot of them were Commies, so connect the dots. But reflective of pre-(and post-) Brown vs. Board of Education prejudice.
So they're to a very great degree crappy or ugly and there's way way too many of them, and I'd hazard a guess that not 50,000 white Americans know there's a Black man on an American coin. Maybe the gun manufacturers can make good(?) use of this knowledge to increase sales.
I like them.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
In addition to what Col. Jessup says, which reflects a lot of truth, there is the factor that some of the more common BTW and W-C halves were issued into circulation at face value. This caused some collectors up to 1964 to think of them as just another coin.
To this day I cannot get excited over Franklin halves, because when I started collecting U.S. coins they were just the regular issue half that came out every year. Familiarity bred contempt.
I agree with "familiarity bred contempt" as THE significant factor for the lack of allure of these issues.
I once owned this one. I believe I sold it to a member here. I guess he re-sold it to you. Glad you're enjoying it.
Proof Buffalo Registry Set
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Nice work! Guess I'm in the minority but I've always loved the design, and the spectacular toning many of these have. Seems like a LOT of coin for the money.
Take care,
Dave
My mentor at Coin World, Ed Fleischmann, once told me a story about a weekly poker game that he participated in somewhere in the late 1950's or early 1960's. The guy at whose house they played went to the bank every week and bought some rolls of coins to use in the game. One week the roll of halves was an original roll of Washington-Carvers. Everybody looked at them and then they just used them in the game. As always whatever coins people had at the end of the game were just put back in their pockets and spend, including the W-C's.
I don't necessarily think we can say sales abuses at issuance led to low collector demand today. Sales of other issues such as the Oregon Trail were heavily abused at issuance and that hasn't prevented collectors today from appreciating the coins. I wonder how many collectors today know or care about the abuses around these coins when issued.
While we may have left Communism behind, other ugliness is creeping back such as the "N" word being spray painted on Le Bron's home. More education on Booker T. Washington and George Washington Carver could be useful. Perhaps it's time for another coin?
I did not mean to imply that the distribution problems from long ago are responsible for the low demand today. The problems are excessive mintage, low interest in commemorative coins in general and yes, racism. I ran into this when I was a dealer and was offering these coins for sale.
64 PL Image courtesy of Bob Campbell.
The house in Virginia where Booker T. Washington was born. (Still standing). Courtesy An Autobiography. The Story of My Life and Work: Academic Affairs Library, UNC-CH University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, 1999. This work is the property of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
From this home to the Hall of Fame.