Is this dealer practice ethical?
lkeigwin
Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
I'll start by saying I'm not very worked up by this. But I do find it a little troubling and somewhat deceiving.
A large, established coin dealer provides four pictures of each ebay coin. Large, circle-cropped ones of each side, and smaller slab ones. Very nice.
However, before beginning each ebay listing the dealer takes the large circle-cropped images and resizes them so they fit perfectly over the true slab images of the coin itself. The slab photos look original but aren't. The two images of each side of the coin...the large cropped one and the smaller slab one...are identical (just different in size).
I am not suggesting the images have been otherwise altered to improve the coin's appearance. I have no knowledge of that. I am just saying the slab images are significantly photoshopped.
I am not alone in that I enjoy seeing slab photos as additional perspectives on a coin. Heritage, Legend, Stacks, Goldberg, etc. usually provide slab photos alongside "glamor" shots. Often I pay more attention to the slab photos as they look more like the coin in hand, to me. They do not appear "processed" for color, contrast, sharpness, etc. So for me this is disappointing, at best.
Thoughts?
One is okay...If the dealer did not provide slab images at all there would be no foul and buyers would be no worse off. So where's the harm?
Or maybe...it's not like the four images are of different coins. The dealer is just overlaying the best shots on the slab. Big deal.
On the other hand, the slab images are rigged. Isn't that wrong?
What's your opinion? Is this ethical? Should there be disclosure?
Lance.
Comments
I agree with you that the image of the coin in the slab shot provides a different perspective that is often quite useful. I don’t know that it is unethical to substitute the “glamor shot” in the slab picture, but it does give you less information to use when you are determining how much you should bid on an item.
Lance, I too, like to use the slab shots as a reference when buying. As you said, they are typically closer to in hand look that the blow ups. They may be doing this as a time savings measure, but it is deceiving. I don't like it. FWIW
I agree with you that the image processing is deceiving, unless disclosed. As such, I consider it unethical. I have not heard of this approach being used. Who is the seller?
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Tilting at windmills.
Thought is, don't buy your coins on Ebay. Go to a show and get them there or find a super retail dealer that will send coins on approval.
Hiding something from the buyer is unethical. Overlaying the glam shot over the slab shot is hiding the slab image. It took more work to do the overlay than just presenting the unmodified slab image. The seller is actively being deceiving. I agree with the Op and several others who have posted
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
IMO...The subject matter is deceiving to say the least. I would also say it's unethicall to deceive.
Some use eBay as an approval service.
I don't care for the practice. Just shoot the slab and be done with it.
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Seems like that's far more copy/paste work than needed, along with it being a bit sneaky. Just take two shots of each side of the coin, then take two shots of each side of the whole slab. That's not difficult.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
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Lance, I agree 100%. The slab shot is useful to compare known colors, lighting, etc with the actual look of the coin. Superimposing the glamour shot to the center of the slab defeats this.
It's no worse (and no better than) than juiced photos, and plenty of auction houses and dealers do this..... but it isn't exactly completely legit either. It would be a big turn-off to me.
Honestly, it mostly seems like more trouble than it's worth. This much photo editing is time-intensive and seems to be counter-productive. The way Legend/Heritage does it is fine. I can't tell you how many times I've had lot reviewers say something like "In hand it looks more like the slab photos and not-so-much like the cropped coin photos."
I've never found the slabbed photos to be of any use in judging the coin. Then again, I'm looking at MS63-67 coins as a rule and need to see luster and marks in detail. I could care less what they do as long as the glamor shots give me a good look at the coin with magnification. GC is very good at this....probably the best. The slab photo is useful in that I can see if it's stickered, old holder, and has a verifiable serial number. The slab photos almost always pale next to the glamor shots.
While technically not wrong, it feels wrong. Why not hire a guy, (Lance) who can take a nice image of the coin, including the nice color, inside the slab?
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This is one of many that Lance shot for me, INSIDE the slab. No games.
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It is frustrating, but I don't think it is unethical unless it is being done to misrepresent the coin.
I have been corrected! I agree with Lance!
Not CCC. I'd rather not out them here. I was just curious what others thought of the practice.
Lance.
It isn't the crime of the century but it isn't right either.
That would also bug me.
Edit: Holy smokes @Wabbit ! That's a heck of a Washington.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
I stand by this statement "Buy the coin not the holder"
This hobby was founded in part with B&M shops.
In my view the Internet in time will destroy the hobby.
I would need c the photos to see what I think.
It's sop to have a slab photo and then a cropped image of the coin giving larger view of the coin. Usually obverse slab photo, obverse photo, reverse photo. Slab reverse photo.
I think it's shady. You can often determine if the white balance, tint, etc. is off from the slab.
Right. My first thought. But it can't be, given the size and resolution of the larger view. Unless a super-long macro lens with a very long working distance allowed capture of the entire slab.
Furthermore, the overlays are not always precise. Sometimes the prongs don't line up properly.
Finally, there was a recent thread of a slab with the wrong overlay. The big pix were correct but the slab coin was off. The wrong coin was accidentally overlaid. Oops.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/963379/sometimes-our-host-gets-it-wrong-label-insert
Lance.
It is fundamentally deceptive..... whatever the seller's justification may be. it is deception - ergo, unethical. Cheers, RickO