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How did this half eagle pass at CAC?
jonruns
Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭✭✭
First let me say that I love CAC and that this post is not an attempt to start a dialogue about the merits of CAC...personally I try to buy PCGS/CAC coins exclusively....
The 1842-O half eagle is a scarce coin with less than 100 known survivors...many are pitted due to heavy circulation...mostly on the obverse for some reason...
My question then is: does CAC relax its standards in the case of more scarce dates?
Shouldn't that long scratch disqualify this coin from passing?
This coin last sold as lot #8212 in David Lawrence 11/15...it is in a PCGS/CAC VF30 holder
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One thing to keep in mind is that the CAC imprimatur also means JA wouldn't have a problem paying his VF30 bid for that coin.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Here is my only VF30 coin.. think it would CAC??? (hoping for a gold!)
As I understand the requirement for a CAC green bean, they must agree with the grade... Cheers, RickO
CAC is notoriously tough on gold, that said VF 30 gives a wide range of latitude for issues affecting grade, etc.
I personally don't like the dings/scratches on that, but I am not a gold guy.
The 1911 (no
Sorry) would grade AU by the looks. Def CAC GOLD (just don't crack and cross for a higher grade as you will loose that cool slab).
i can't answer for cac, but if you consider that there are so few of these coins graded, that is going to help it's chances more so than if it were a common coin, simply because there aren't many coins at vf30 to give a bid on.
also, cac has seen it in hand, we have not. perhaps they are net grading it.
No such thing as definite in CAC gold. We've seen some equivalent lustrous PCGS/NGC old holdered VF30/35's that are XF45/AU50 all day long..... come through here and not get the CAC gold bean, even with superb original surfaces. Pretty hard to define JA's particular tastes on something he only assigns a sticker to in 1 out of 300 coins submitted.
As far as leniency in grading/CACing on key date coins with low pops? One would think that it is the case. The CAC bean also represents (or should) the top 5-40% of coins out there. It wouldn't make sense to reject every 1842-0 $5 in existence because essentially none come with totally problem free surfaces....as you'd expect on a common 1901-s $5. CAC stickers what they are willing to buy/bid on. That's really all you can say.
A twenty point grade jump is worth CAC GOLD.
To give CAC the benefit of the doubt I would suggest that the marks between stars ten and thirteen might not pop out in-hand as they do in the image. Regardless, I had a conversation with the folks at CAC one time about what they would do with a theoretical very scarce coin that might be otherwise original, attractive and accurately graded but that might have some unacceptable aspect to it. They told me that they would not bend their standards just because of scarcity, but of course it was a conversation about a theoretical coin and no real coin was being discussed.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
@jwitten
I love you man
but by sticking your coin in to this thread, some members are posting about your coin rather than the OP's!
Of course they are net grading it.
All grading below 70 is "net" grading.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Both me and the OP SHOULD NOT NEED to post disclaimers about CAC or any grading service before posting an opinion. Take that comment as mine.
First thing: IMO, what JA wishes to pay for a coin SHOULD NOT have any relation to the CAC sticker. So now it seems you can get a bean if the price is right OR if the grade falls into the top of the range.
Next: IMO, the coin is damaged and over graded (in spite of the weak "O" Mint strike). It's scratched, cleaned, and has several cuts into the rim. That is only the obverse.
Old coins get beat up, we each need to decide what we can tolerate. NGC and CAC have a higher tolerance on this coin than I do. I also understand that they help make the "market" and I don't.
With less than 100 known survivors of this coin....to my eyes this coin is beautiful
It could be "worth" it....doesn't mean it gets it. In fact, I'd say the majority of what most of us call no brainer up-grades, do not end up receiving CAC Gold beans. We'll know if it goes "Gold" when JWitten submits it. The scratch across the upper cheek and lower jaw doesn't help.
@Jimnight said: "With less than 100 known survivors of this coin....to my eyes this coin is beautiful ."
Then you should really love that low grade, corroded, "Gloucester Token" that was certified decades ago!
I do. LOL.
The only reason I can see it not getting gold is if they feel it shouldn't have graded at all with the scratch, which is very possible. Without the scratch, the coin is borderline MS by today's standards.
Most posters will just gloss over this post. It is however 100% true. It's exactly what it means.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
For a coin that could have been crappy, this '42-O turned out not so bad for a VF. Decent. Well-placed wholesome original scratches beneath crusty virgin toning.
Common in this grade, but lots of cleaned-up crap is graded higher and is telemarketer-acceptable.
CAC has an obligation. To buy what it likes. It doesn't expect anyone to agree with every coin. Anyone looking at coins wants to get their "eye" in synch with whatever's on the label. CAC tells you each and every one they like. And their spot price for it today.
No one can take a lesson from every coin. If this piece has one, it's based on having the soul of a 45
Very scarce, old coins get passes all the time for things that would bodybag commonplace ones.
A customer recently sent me a draped bust half dollar with obvious scratches that cross each other, extending nearly the entire diameter of the coin, both sides. It's a PCGS straight-graded R8 die marriage valued in the middle 5 digits.
Lance.
I didn't gloss over it but I did have to look up the word "imprimatur"...LOL
Thanks to everyone for their serious and articulate responses...99% of the time when I see a green bean I agree with CAC...I just wish they would agree with my submissions 99% of the time too...
Very helpful responses...as I'm trying to get my eyes "in synch" with CAC...
Good luck @JWitten...keep us posted on your submission...
For the assigned grade that coin looks all there to me regarding wear. It's possible the long scratch is so minor in depth that it was barely taken into consideration.
If I was in the market for one, I'd buy it. It has a wholesome look.
thanks...i meant market graded.
So did I
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I have seen far too many scratched antebellum coins with CAC stickers for my liking. That includes common date and rarer material. This is why I do not understand those that use PCGS/NGC or CAC as grading crutches. Learn for yourself and figure out a sense of your own personal taste.
For the record - CAC has beaned 11 - 42-O half eagles, NGC have graded 49, PCGS have graded 61. So this one falls in elite territory. Lack of intentional processing on early gold is an asset that JA appears to like from my experience and I trust that this one is within that category.
Best, SH
Let's put it another way. If you agree with CAC 99% of the time that's pretty good. It would also mean in your mind your were right 100% of the time ; )
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
CAC supposedly for each grade, differentiates A and B coins from C and D ones. If that's a B coin I'd hate to see what a C or D looks like.
"CAC stickers what they are willing to buy/bid on. That's really all you can say."
This.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Suppose or hope or use their accepted coins as an exemplar, As said above, buying is the bottom line. Impute A or B as you wish. CAC isn't arguing, it's just next day check or bank wire. Eve4ything you've got. All day, every day.
I have seen 66+ C coins in 65 holders I don't like. Super-clean and "meh". Some will love them. A couple of my purist customers are thrilled to have them. I killed the sale of quite a few Pogue MS67B Bust 50c for "buy a flashy 66".
No matter, It's not a grading service. It's an acceptance service that pre-qualifies a coin for immediate purchase by CAC,
JA thinks some of the prices some A coins bring are 'irrationally exuberant". Don't you?
No matter, the sign outside the door reads "Always Buying Coins We Like..... Always".
Buy, buy, buy.
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5