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State Government 'Overreach' Limiting My Choices On E-Bay *Minnesota*
cashbailey
Posts: 18 ✭
Since I'd been a coin collector in the past & wanted to amass some silver, I decided I'd start 'collecting' again in March of this year.
I decided on 90.00% silver .50 cent pieces. Mostly 1964 Kennedy's.
I’m not saying it happens every day, or even every week, but I’ve missed out on some great auctions because the sellers clearly stated.
“Due to recent law changes, any & all bids from Minnesota residents will be cancelled”
What the **** ?
http://www.numismaster.com/ta/numis/Article.jsp?ArticleId=27981
I’m not anti-government, but IMO this is a perfect example of government overreach.
Unfortunately, since it’s the ‘only one’ with this law, it also says a lot about the state of Minnesota.
10
Comments
Just be happy you don't live in California
.....or the People's Democratic Republic of Maryland.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That's a really stupid law but I wonder what kind of enforcement is going on. If I was selling on eBay I would have no qualms selling to someone from MN, I'm sure the government has better things to do than track random internet sales across state lines.
I would also like to see what the federal courts have to say about a state government restricting the transfer of legal tender in regards to the commerce clause.
I am glad I live in Texas. It is a business friendly state as the Governor of Texas abolished any sales tax on collectible coins several years ago.
Don't play with fire you just may get burnt.
Just some friendly advice!
Thank God! I live in almost wild west!
I don't care for laws like this but:
What about they put a Lien on you which will be reported to the 3 credit agencies therefore hurting your credit rating until you pay it?
Yep....VERY happy about that, but Washington State is going so loony, it is trying to catch California.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
So!
the old saying you can't fight city hall does not apply?
I, for one would not temp fate.
Who sell US currency at face on ebay?
Well. If there is a warrant issued within Minnesota , wouldn't the seller traveling through MN be arrested upon an ID check for speeding over 1/2 mph?
I see pro's & con's to that law, even tho I think it's crappy.!.!
Do cash deals at shows/shops in neighboring states.
Each state makes its own commercial laws. Free, open elections allow the residents of each state to decide what they want or do not want through actions of their elected representatives and governor. If the OP lives in Minnesota and doesn't like the statute, then elect people who will repeal it. Similarly, If you live in Kansas and don't like a statute, then elect people who will repeal it.
@Bochiman .... I agree with you about WA state... I have been back a few times as a consultant and am amazed at what has transpired since I left..... Although I miss several things in and about WA state, I do fear it is fast becoming California North and perhaps even a tad worse. I feel sorry for the rational citizens there. Cheers, RickO
Living in California is very hard as it is extremely hard to figure out what to do each day.
Do I go Kayak fishing in the ocean, surfing, sailing, hiking. backpacking, rock climbing, mountain biking, off roading, dune buggying in the dunes, gold prospection and mining, girl watching, insanely great nature photograpahy, herbal gardening, the list is way to large to go on .....
Which way do I go ...... the beach, inland valleys, awesome mountains or some of the best deserts on earth.
Years ago when housing prices were sky high, a lot of Californians left and went to Oregon, Washington, Nevada and Arizona. Unfortunately they brought their left wing ideas with them. Now they outnumber us natives (Nevada). We have been Californicated. Some say we've been Commiefornia'd. Real shame as we had our own identity but that's all gone now.
Although we do have sales tax on coins we don't have the crap that's going on in MN or Seattle.
bob
it is a funny law - they define 'dealers' to include people that buy as well
do you purchase over 4200 90% silver halves per year? then you meet the $25K volume required to register
You don't have to change the World to buy a few 90% Kennedy half dollars. Nor do you have to use eBay. Sheesh.
Well, the law did get amended and that might be enough for some of the eBay sellers to adjust their selling habits. You could try messaging them the information.
coinweek.com/education/coins-and-the-law-2/icta-minnesota-law-targeting-coin-dealers-amended/
On the other hand, this may be their protest and they might not want to change it. And, in case you are wondering, eBay does not allow you to exclude a bidder by State (only by country).
The genesis and implementation of the law makes for some pretty interesting/outrageous reading...and I keep asking, 'Did the US Mint get itself registered properly?'.
Crazy hoops were implemented over nonsensical amounts of silver and gold content and without consideration for numismatic value...and the verbiage was written so that the 'advisors' happened to be the favored sort (i.e. big sellers that can afford the time, energy and costs of a compliance department), and it's still unclear if the elderly widowers/widows they were trying to protect are actually protected.
As for if there will be any effort put into finding small violators/out of state eBay sellers, I would doubt it. BUT if you are getting looked at for anything else, well this will just be more ammunition to get used. Would it survive a court challenge? Who knows and it'd be very interesting to watch that fight, assuming anyone would care enough about a small business person who doesn't make big donations.
Now, if you are a Minnesota resident this might be the perfect time to get active locally.
Funny you mentioned California. (I live in Minnesota, should have stated that from the beginning)
My brother lives in CA & we have a friendly ongoing contest to see which state is more liberal.
It's surprisingly close
And many do.
Let's not look at Californian's as all liberals please. I take great offense to that. I am a hard line conservative and have always been that way. So lets not put us all in one basket please.
Carry on
The thing about California is that most not from here think that California is Los Angeles.
Us California natives (not from LA) view LA as a place we want to avoid, so much so, that when driving north from San Diego, we go up the 15 to go "around" LA.
California is not LA.
You make it sound so simple Rodger.
Problem is, who knows if if any of the present elected representatives are even aware of the law ?
This isn't the end of the world for me, but when a state Government makes a new law that does absolutely nothing other than end up limiting consumer choice, they're priorities are misplaced.
I would love to get more specific, but it would become a political debate, & I'm sure the owners of this site don't want this forum being used for that purpose.
Actually I don't. Who is it ?
If you lived here, it wouldn't surprise you at all. The Nanny State Lives!
Luckily for me, I don't purchase anywhere near 4200 halves per year
I prefer eBay Bill.
And I don't like it when the nanny state of Minnesota tries protecting me, but actually ends up limiting my choices.
This is beyond dumb and dumber. I love the state of MN, but my gawd!
Feels like something more fitting of the Socialist Republic of Seattle.
Dave
I had heard (but don't rely on me and do your own homework) that the MN legislature was in the process of modifying that law to allow the typical small eBay transaction or interaction by an out of state dealer showing up at a coin show in MN. I never followed up to see if that modification or amendment went through. Anyone know if it did?
Wondercoin
Getting out of WA state ASAP after I retire (4 yrs). It can't come fast enough.
But you are overwhelmed! There's no way I could handle all the Liberalism and wish California would secede from the Union!
There were rumors many wanted to split California into Northern and Southern States....that might work!
McCulloch v. Maryland exempts the US Mint from this.
Now that I have had a chance to read the actual statutes in question I've come to realize how bat shit crazy it actually is.
It covers "bullion product" which is defined as "any coin, round, bar, or ingot containing silver, gold, platinum, palladium, or other precious metal." The state can, on a whim, decide any metal currently being used in US coinage is a "precious metal" because the term is not defined in the statute.
It applies to anyone who "buys, sells, solicits, or markets" bullion product. This means the buyer AND the seller need a license from the state. Want to trade a roll of AGEs for a new car? Better get a couple of licenses. It also applies to anyone "delivering" bullion product. Want to leave your grandson that set of MS70 Morgans you spent your life collecting? Better get a license.
This law makes it illegal to "buy", "sell", or "deliver" federal currency without the permission of a state government.
This law makes it outright illegal to "buy", "sell" or "deliver" federal currency if you've been convicted of whatever crimes the state deems worthy.
Oops, forget about leaving little Johnny those Morgans unless you have an extra $25,000 lying around you can use as surety.
And this doesn't even get into the ludicrous amount of power the un-elected, unaccountable commissioner of commerce has to enforce this law if he "believes that a person has engaged, is engaging, or is about to engage in an act, practice, or course of business constituting a violation of this chapter...."
Notice how it says believes rather than has proof of.
The only reason this law hasn't been challenged is because the threshold is so high to violate it that anyone who comes close is going to be a business and it's easier and cheaper for them to just pay the fees than fight it.
Which is, of course, the entire point of this law. It doesn't do a single thing that serves the public interest, it's sole purpose is to fill the tax coffers.
I found that most of CA is Red and only the high population centers are Blue. But the blues rule as they are like cockroaches and infect the cities in numbers so numerous that they cannot be counted. Shame to see that state go the way it has in the past 40 years. Don't know if it is better or worse but it sure has changed. I can't afford to cross the state line....their gas prices are insane and we here, in S. Nevada, get all our gas from S. Calif via a pipeline. But we are 25% cheaper in price.
My brother lives there and complains like you have no idea. He's a general contractor and has been for 45 years and almost cannot afford to be one anymore due to regulations, permit fees, and taxes.
bob
Have to get that fifty million dollars for free lawyers for illegals from somewhere.
It is just like CA, NY, IL,.... the big cities are mainly libtards, but once you get into the country it is rather nice.
20 years ago ..sounds like you still see the Beach Boys
They are ok never a huge fan tho ...
Instead listen to this loudly .....
Led Zeppelin ....
https://youtube.com/watch?v=-cfc3rCQOuU
Eagles ....
https://youtube.com/watch?v=sxSOtgLETWg
Mamas and Papas ....
https://youtube.com/watch?v=3kcmwXUdDCE
Red hot chili peppers ...
https://youtube.com/watch?v=YlUKcNNmywk
I'm in the north in the mountains. They can have the south state IF they stay outta the north state
Michelle Phillips is 73 years old... that deeply shocks me more than anything the coin market can ever do....
Hey I'm just a bit older and Peter and Paul are still alive but Mary has passed.
Here's a song everyone can sing but is one of the saddest songs of all time:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu_rItLPTXc
That could have been me talking about Minnesota. Minneapolis/St. Paul, & to a lesser extent, Rochester & Duluth are the deep blues. I also have a brother that lives in CA, although he doesn't complain very often. Like you, he's mentioned that there are large red areas in the state, which I don't people that have never lived there, realize.
I think I mentioned this earlier, but instead of complaining, we made a game out of it. I send him what I believe to be ridiculous things happening in MN, & he goes the same for CA.
Here's the latest I sent him.
http://www.twincities.com/2017/04/16/twin-cities-housing-costs/
& him to me
http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article148948619.html
In spite of this, I remain in Minnesota…… for now.
That may change in approximately 7 years. At that time, I'd be 62, & if SS is still available at that age, I'm going to take it.
Problem is, Minnesota is one of only 4 states that taxes both SS & pension income.
South Dakota, a 1.5 hour drive from where I live, at least at this time, taxes neither.
For someone like myself, (private sector pension) that's a game changer.
Minnesota has very high tax rates (both income & sales) & because Governor Dayton raised the income tax rate to one of the highest in the nation before the last budget, we actually had/have a 1.6 billion surplus. Being the Democrat that he is, he has proposed using the vast majority of it on new spending, & the remainder on property tax rebates, which are based on income, & therefore go to the people not at all responsible for the surplus.
I'm not one of those guys who wants to start a commune in the mountains of Colorado, & start amassing 15-year-old wives & firearms. In other words, I understand there is a need for government & taxes, but gov has gone so far beyond it's intended purpose , (think of this thread) that imho, it's not sustainable, & at some point, it's going to end badly.
Time will tell
_ _ a _ _ _ _ _ _ l _ _ _
Extoll all the virtues of CA .. but a fact remains ....25-35 % of USA illegals population ,calls California home
Somebody pays taxes
There are a lot of other forums that don't clutter up their politics with coin collecting.
And all this over buying a few measly silver half dollars.
California, what an awesome state ....
Today I decided to go Kayak fishing in the Pacific Ocean.
I was looking for yellowtail by got pulled around by a shark instead, every trip I see something awesome ..... (shark released back into the ocean) ......
I am sorry Rodger, but I hit you with a "disagree," and I hope that does not affect our on-line friendship. When you are stuck in a state where the vast majority of voters will vote ONE WAY, regardless of what a politician says or does, your efforts to unseat him will be fruitless.
When I lived in Massachusetts I was in a one party congressional, working class district. Our local representative to Congress ran unopposed in every election. My post office in that town, North Quincy, was only open 8 to 4 Monday through Friday. If you had a registered letter or other package that requited a signature, I had to ask to take off from work or go the post office on Saturday, knock on the back door and hope that someone would answer who would help me.
I wrote to this congressman about that problem and got no response.
The only way that we got rid of this loser was when he decided to give up his seat because, “He wanted to spend more time with his family.” He then ran for governor of Massachusetts and came in third in a three-way race in the primary.
My parents gave money to the campaign and held up signs for a very well-known Delaware Senator and Vice President of the United States. When my father made a huge mistake with his estate planning, which affected my parents’ ability to enter an assisted living facility, I wrote a very respectful letter to this person in their name asking if he could help. His office didn’t even have the courtesy to respond to my letter. He could have said, “I can’t do anything about this situation, sorry.” instead, his office did not respond to my letter at all, which I had written on the behalf of two of his loyal supporters, cash contributors and residences of his state.
No, democracy does not always work, even when you have done things that should “geese the skids” as my parents had done. That senator and vice president should not have treated my parents like that, but he was in a "safe seat" and had no need to respond to "the little people."
I heard one in the industry that pushed for this law was a principal at 'govmint', which I feel has overpriced stuff (but not as bad as some telemarketing rare coin scammers that have been in MN). Here is an example of one of their offerings - what do you think is included in their Barber half 'set' ? 10 Barber halves?
govmint.com/1892-1915-50-cent-barber-g-vg-set.html?ad=GB2000C1&utm_source=criteo&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=dynamic&utm_campaign=GB2000C1
Look at the bright side. With States in control, a handful can overreach and we still have the remaining states in which to do business. If the Federal government controlled everything and screwed up, there would be no escape.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Following up on my previous comment ....
Sellers should carefully read the early 2016 changes to that original MN law.
Wondercoin
I hope I do not live long enough to see the government buy back all coinage and currency at face for exchange for value on plastic government cards.
Read somewhere that they fly the rebel flag and legislator's lapel pins are Swastikas . Not sure how true that is. You know how rumors are.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5