@Zoins said:
It's interesting that @jtlee321 has one as well. I now wondering if this is a special kind of natural, mechanical wear such as being used in a specific type of machine such as vending machine or meter.
I've seen similar wear resulting from coins being stuck in counting machines with the large metal plates that spin around before sorting the coins by denomination and depositing them into bags beneath the counting plates. I can't find a picture right now but if you've seen them clean or pull out a TD Bank Penny Arcade, that's what they look like.
But there's the debate- does that fall into natural wear, or damage?
If it's after the coin leaves the Mint, it's PMD, at least for ATS. They have an article explaining counting machine marks and how they slab them with a details grade: “Obverse Wheel Mark” or “Reverse Wheel Mark”.
That being said, here is a thread with an Arkansas quarter with similar edges that was done at the Mint. In this case case, it would not be PMD, but is being called PSD (post-strike damage) as it was produced at the Mint. Waffled coins would be another example of PSD.
@UnclePennyBags said:
Our host is the real winner here.... They made $15 on an 8 cent dime
This is exactly how the non-collecting world see's it. The unknowledgeable world in coin collecting see's the 1913 V Nickel as having the value of only 5 cents! We knowing the true aspects of this coin. So we as collectors, could understand the value of the $5,000,000! Just because we know about this type of coin.
People will line up to see a 1913 V nickel in person. Who is going out of their way to see that? No offense meant to the OP.
They're not going to go out of their ways to go see it, but I had one customer (who is a bidder) say that they'd like to have it to show window shoppers when they ask "have annyting speeshull?" LOL. Others think it's either just cool or funny to have. It's not for everyone. I mean, I wouldn't have it in MY collection, because it's not something I collect. Some people may. Who knows?
@Zoins said:
It's interesting that @jtlee321 has one as well. I now wondering if this is a special kind of natural, mechanical wear such as being used in a specific type of machine such as vending machine or meter.
I've seen similar wear resulting from coins being stuck in counting machines with the large metal plates that spin around before sorting the coins by denomination and depositing them into bags beneath the counting plates. I can't find a picture right now but if you've seen them clean or pull out a TD Bank Penny Arcade, that's what they look like.
But there's the debate- does that fall into natural wear, or damage?
If it's after the coin leaves the Mint, it's PMD, at least for ATS. They have an article explaining counting machine marks and how they slab them with a details grade: “Obverse Wheel Mark” or “Reverse Wheel Mark”.
That being said, here is a thread with an Arkansas quarter with similar edges that was done at the Mint. In this case case, it would not be PMD, but is being called PSD (post-strike damage) as it was produced at the Mint. Waffled coins would be another example of PSD.
Interesting topic, just no way to conclude exactly what happened. The only reason I can think that this graded is that it has the 'look' (I avoided the term eye appeal) of a market acceptable coin. It's not scratched, AT, or damaged in any other way. Only thing I can guess. It passed.
Once a coin leaves the press, and even if the coin is STILL AT THE MINT , and say the coin gets stuck in a counting machine and is damaged, the coin is Damaged and not gradable. PCGS made a mistake on this one, someone ask Fred.
If only there was a collective group of coin grading experts that actually physically examined this coin in person, and all came to a single concensus. Shoot. If only. . .
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Once a coin leaves the press, and even if the coin is STILL AT THE MINT , and say the coin gets stuck in a counting machine and is damaged, the coin is Damaged and not gradable. PCGS made a mistake on this one, someone ask Fred.
@FredWeinberg Can you comment on the above? Your expertise is requested
@Zoins said:
Of note, the top two TPGs don't label waffled coins as damaged but as "Mint Cancelled", probably because it was intentional.
Yes they will not labeled as mint errors but mint canceled. I have sold a ton of them.
The coin in question is damaged, the op knows this, the buyer may think he is getting a lowball coin, but is not and is being tricked.
They're not being tricked if the TPG graded it an ag03. It's like like it's raw and I'm saying "here's your lowball Roosevelt dime." I don't necessarily care what it's being called here, what matters is that the TPG's called it AG03 and that's what it's selling it as. You're acting like you don't sell the coin for what it is on the slab.
I keep reiterating that this coin is NOT naturally worn. I sent it in honestly just to see what would happen.
If you know it is NOT naturally worn, then how was it "worn"?
This is a reasonable question that everyone keeps overlooking.
That's not my question to answer, as this coin did not have a GoPro on it it's entire life. That's the job I have to the TPG, which graded it. You got me as to how it got like that. Who knows?
By an amazing coincidence, I happened to notice yesterday that there were two coins, a cent and a dime, stuck in the bottom of the washing machine that came with the house we moved into a few months ago. This particular model has an outer shell, curved in a bit at the bottom, that spins to extract water from the clean load, and an agitator that includes the base of the tub. The agitator and base go back and forth relative to the outer shell. There is a narrow groove between the outer edge of the agitator base and the inner edge of the shell base.
The reverse of the dime was facing out, against the concave curved base of the shell. As the agitator rolled the coin back and forth against the shell, the reverse rim of the coin wore down rather like the OP's coin, though not as severely as the OP's coin. Nevertheless, many of the letters are merged into the rim.
The coin being flat, the center of the reverse is mostly intact, though there is some flattening on the high parts of the torch and the two branches.
On the obverse, which was up against the convex base of the agitator, the rims are basically intact because the flatness of the coin kept them away from the agitotor, while the center is heavily rubbed down.
The reeded edge is beaten down somewhat from rolling back and forth across whatever is under the base, but the individual reeds are still separated.
Will try to post pictures if I can.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Perhaps the buyer won't care what the history is with this one. I know I wouldn't. Sometimes it is fun to simply collect the unusual and this dime certainly fits the bill!
There was a collector a few years back that found a worn out state quarter in change. I purchased it raw, sent it in to pcgs along with a small grouping. Let me try and locate it, take a quick photo and post. (hint: PCGS doesn't ALWAYS get it wrong on these strange modern coins. . .). Give me a few minutes.
I can't find the thread (old boards) but it was one of those, "guess the grades", I think. PM contact with the OP afforded me the chance to purchase and then I submitted. (Obviously was hoping for what the OP achieved!)
Dang, still has more to say even after promising, " I am done with your thread".
I am simply giving the OP an opportunity to be HONEST in his listing as HE ADMITTED that the coin is not naturally worn.
The buyer will be disappointed.
If you're insinuating that I did this to this coin, you're out of your mind. I bought the coin like this. You either are as dense as the lead blanket on the x-ray table or simply did not read or see the original post.
@CaptHenway said:
By an amazing coincidence, I happened to notice yesterday that there were two coins, a cent and a dime, stuck in the bottom of the washing machine that came with the house we moved into a few months ago. This particular model has an outer shell, curved in a bit at the bottom, that spins to extract water from the clean load, and an agitator that includes the base of the tub. The agitator and base go back and forth relative to the outer shell. There is a narrow groove between the outer edge of the agitator base and the inner edge of the shell base.
The reverse of the dime was facing out, against the concave curved base of the shell. As the agitator rolled the coin back and forth against the shell, the reverse rim of the coin wore down rather like the OP's coin, though not as severely as the OP's coin. Nevertheless, many of the letters are merged into the rim.
The coin being flat, the center of the reverse is mostly intact, though there is some flattening on the high parts of the torch and the two branches.
On the obverse, which was up against the convex base of the agitator, the rims are basically intact because the flatness of the coin kept them away from the agitotor, while the center is heavily rubbed down.
The reeded edge is beaten down somewhat from rolling back and forth across whatever is under the base, but the individual reeds are still separated.
Will try to post pictures if I can.
Very interesting!!! That very well may be what happened. Just possibly a longer exposure to the agitator?
Dang, still has more to say even after promising, " I am done with your thread".
I am simply giving the OP an opportunity to be HONEST in his listing as HE ADMITTED that the coin is not naturally worn.
The buyer will be disappointed.
If you're insinuating that I did this to this coin, you're out of your mind. I bought the coin like this. You either are as dense as the lead blanket on the x-ray table or simply did not read or see the original post.
Wow, more insults.
He keeps saying the same thing over and over again. You people are typical Elder Numismatists. And you wonder why the YN's don't want anything to do with you.
Very interesting!!! That very well may be what happened. Just possibly a longer exposure to the agitator?
I suspect so.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
He keeps saying the same thing over and over again. You people are typical Elder Numismatists. And you wonder why the YN's don't want anything to do with you.
You have no idea how old I am. Keep flinging mud. Almost 700 followers on IG in 1 month. You've got what? 2800 and you've been on IG since at least 2/4/13. That means in 1 month, I've gotten to 25% of what you have in 4 years and 4 months. That's 52 months for the math-challenged folks. Yeah, YN's want nothing to do with me.
It wasn't that long ago I was your age... and while I wasn't as arrogant and wasn't carrying quite as big of a chip on my shoulder as you seem to be, I still had my fair share of misplaced anger that I redirected towards others. I'm glad I grew out of that, and I hope you will too.
Followers can be bought, the amount means nothing.
@basetsb said:
Followers can be bought, the amount means nothing.
Did you just suggest I am buying followers on IG? If not, then I guess you're insinuating that the BoyerNumismatics account is buying followers? Otherwise your comment is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
You were talking about how many you have. It means nothing.
@basetsb said:
Followers can be bought, the amount means nothing.
Did you just suggest I am buying followers on IG? If not, then I guess you're insinuating that the BoyerNumismatics account is buying followers? Otherwise your comment is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
You were talking about how many you have. It means nothing.
For something that means nothing, you and your brother sure seem to enjoy boasting about having the second-biggest coin-based IG.
You're having trouble following along. The total amount of followers means nothing. The amount of coin related followers will obviously increase your odds of buying/selling coins you like.
He keeps saying the same thing over and over again. You people are typical Elder Numismatists. And you wonder why the YN's don't want anything to do with you.
You have no idea how old I am. Keep flinging mud. Almost 700 followers on IG in 1 month. You've got what? 2800 and you've been on IG since at least 2/4/13. That means in 1 month, I've gotten to 25% of what you have in 4 years and 4 months. That's 52 months for the math-challenged folks. Yeah, YN's want nothing to do with me.
It wasn't that long ago I was your age... and while I wasn't as arrogant and wasn't carrying quite as big of a chip on my shoulder as you seem to be, I still had my fair share of misplaced anger that I redirected towards others. I'm glad I grew out of that, and I hope you will too.
My account is also private, and yours is not. I screen the people who want to follow me.
A quick trip to your followers panel revealed dozens of Russians, Arabic-speaking people, and the like. I only let people who I can converse with and have any potential for making a sale follow me, including 12 year olds (which is what most of the coin profiles are composed of). Even with that being said, I have no new followers that purchase anything of merit from me. I do more buying for them from others than anything. Every morning I wake up to quite a few Russians and middle eastern people.
@pa_coins 's profile also used to be private, and we had relatively the same amount of followers, give or take a few hundred because he was on there a bit longer. He opened his profile up to the world, oh, maybe a year ago now, and he has gained thousands of followers, day and night. Do any of those Lithuanians and Russians or middle easterners come to him and ask to buy things, or me, likewise? No. I wouldn't sell to them anyway because of the shipping hassle. The furthest I've shipped was Canada and back a few times because our postal systems are generally the same and handle packages well and track well. I can't say the same about any other country in the world.
Come on, bragging about followers seems a bit trivial. There's no base for it, anyway.
It was a good attempt at an ad-hominem, though. I'll give you that.
@basetsb said:
Followers can be bought, the amount means nothing.
Did you just suggest I am buying followers on IG? If not, then I guess you're insinuating that the BoyerNumismatics account is buying followers? Otherwise your comment is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
You were talking about how many you have. It means nothing.
For something that means nothing, you and your brother sure seem to enjoy boasting about having the second-biggest coin-based IG.
You're having trouble following along. The total amount of followers means nothing. The amount of coin related followers will obviously increase your odds of buying/selling coins you like.
I'm not on IG to sell coins. I may on occasion, sell coins through IG, but that is not my main motivation for being there.
I mean, IG is not my only gateway to sell coins either. I haven't attempted to really push and sell anything as hard as I used to. I really like to open it up and see what great eBay snipes @jr_coins77 got or what amazing new Morgan @colorbombcoins posted today. It's pretty neat the things you see there. A sale is just lagniappe.
@FadeToBlack said:
I'd really like to see you go back and answer my potatoes/rocks ethics post, but I have a feeling you won't.
I'll even copy/paste it for ya;
Also, RE you just selling what PCGS grades.
If I showed you some rocks, put them in a sack, labeled the sack "Potatoes" and told you it was potatoes, would you sell it as potatoes to somebody, then turn around and point at me and say "He told me it was potatoes!" when your buyer asks why it's not potatoes? Because that's what you're doing with this coin if you KNOW its no good. I mean, sure, you may be skirting the legalities of ripping somebody off, but when you get down to brass tacks, your actions are unethical. You're putting your own personal profits before the good of the hobby. Guess that tends to happen when you waste $100+ on 4 QC wheat cents though.
Lol @ the rocks and potatoes reference. It really doesn't fit well for the sake of the argument.
You and I both buy an MS63 coin as MS63. If the coin inside has a lamination peel that PCGS did not catch (as my latest capped bust half has), and I buy it, according to your logic towards me, the seller knowingly ripped me off because PCGS (when part of their job is to screen stuff like that out) did not catch it and bodybag it with a "peeling lamination" label. It's graded, so should I contact PCGS and get the cert pulled because the capped half has a lamination error? If that's what all of us are supposed to do (PCGS' job), then we may as well not even have a certification service. I mean, seriously. We're paying them HOW much to give their opinions? Key word opinions. I can't tell you how many peeling lamination coins I've seen holdered. If it's MY job to call up PCGS or contact seniors in the company to get the cert pulled for a coin that's got peeling lamination but has a straight grade, why are we paying them?
What are we paying them for if we think we know more than the graders? Why don't we sell raw and assign a grade...oh wait, we can't. The world wants certified coins. This coin is certified. Just like my capped half that has a lamination error/planchet flaw. It's a VF35 and I bought it as such. I felt no resentment to the seller because it graded. That's just insanity. The graders believed the coin was market acceptable and graded it as such. If not, it would've been bodybagged and sent back. The concept is rather simple.
Comparing apples to oranges, or in your case rocks to potatoes, does not make a strong case. Humans make mistakes. That's why we are humans and not Gods. Nobody is a perfect being. That's just fact. The multiple graders agreed in the grade, as they do on ten thousand coins per day. It's not like they take notes on why they grade the coin the way they do, they don't have time for that. None of us would.
Apples to oranges
Rocks to potatoes
Gold bond to mayonnaise
Eminem the rapper to Elvis
Beauty and the beast to Bravehart
Snails to Mountain Lions
Extra Firm to down pillows
Poison Ivy to Tulips
One can make a comparison, but it doesn't mean it's legitimate, lol.
I love this one. Sent to anacs late 90's. Came back AU55. I was happy with that. Sent that same piece back to anacs for reholder, (coin able to rotate in old holder). SYN, came back MS62, didn't ask for a regrade. That coin stayed that way for a number of years. PCGS at one point didn't recognize this variety. Joined the collectors club around 2008 and found that in fact now was a recognized variety. Send it in for crossover, lo and behold MS62.
1936 Doubled Die, Die 01.
PS: LOVE my Lincolns this way, Brown and beautiful.
~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~ POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
@ECHOES said:
I love this one. Sent to anacs late 90's. Came back AU55. I was happy with that. Sent that same piece back to anacs for reholder, (coin able to rotate in old holder). SYN, came back MS62, didn't ask for a regrade. That coin stayed that way for a number of years. PCGS at one point didn't recognize this variety. Joined the collectors club around 2008 and found that in fact now was a recognized variety. Send it in for crossover, lo and behold MS62.
1936 Doubled Die, Die 01.
PS: LOVE my Lincolns this way, Brown and beautiful.
@CaptHenway said:
By an amazing coincidence, I happened to notice yesterday that there were two coins, a cent and a dime, stuck in the bottom of the washing machine that came with the house we moved into a few months ago. This particular model has an outer shell, curved in a bit at the bottom, that spins to extract water from the clean load, and an agitator that includes the base of the tub. The agitator and base go back and forth relative to the outer shell. There is a narrow groove between the outer edge of the agitator base and the inner edge of the shell base.
The reverse of the dime was facing out, against the concave curved base of the shell. As the agitator rolled the coin back and forth against the shell, the reverse rim of the coin wore down rather like the OP's coin, though not as severely as the OP's coin. Nevertheless, many of the letters are merged into the rim.
The coin being flat, the center of the reverse is mostly intact, though there is some flattening on the high parts of the torch and the two branches.
On the obverse, which was up against the convex base of the agitator, the rims are basically intact because the flatness of the coin kept them away from the agitotor, while the center is heavily rubbed down.
The reeded edge is beaten down somewhat from rolling back and forth across whatever is under the base, but the individual reeds are still separated.
Will try to post pictures if I can.
Does this mean that it is NW (natural wear) or AW (artificial wear)? I'm so confused.
I guess it is market acceptable (MA)... but not completely original.
$56.55! Great price for such a Low grade, right? Are you satisfied in the end, OP? The final chapter in a very interesting thread!
One More Thing... Great story coin for whoever bought it!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.
$16 Modern coin grading fee
$10 Secure Plus
$7 Special Label (Retro Doily) (Service level fee plus Special Label fee of $7 per coin)
Est. $15 Shipping & Handling fee (were probably part of a larger order)
$5.66 10% eBay fees (normally)
$1.70 3% PayPal fees (normally)
$55.36 in estimated fees = not much meat left on the bone.
oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's
Comments
If it's after the coin leaves the Mint, it's PMD, at least for ATS. They have an article explaining counting machine marks and how they slab them with a details grade: “Obverse Wheel Mark” or “Reverse Wheel Mark”.
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/4412/Wheel-Marks/
That being said, here is a thread with an Arkansas quarter with similar edges that was done at the Mint. In this case case, it would not be PMD, but is being called PSD (post-strike damage) as it was produced at the Mint. Waffled coins would be another example of PSD.
https://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=279827
They're not going to go out of their ways to go see it, but I had one customer (who is a bidder) say that they'd like to have it to show window shoppers when they ask "have annyting speeshull?" LOL. Others think it's either just cool or funny to have. It's not for everyone. I mean, I wouldn't have it in MY collection, because it's not something I collect. Some people may. Who knows?
Interesting topic, just no way to conclude exactly what happened. The only reason I can think that this graded is that it has the 'look' (I avoided the term eye appeal) of a market acceptable coin. It's not scratched, AT, or damaged in any other way. Only thing I can guess. It passed.
Once a coin leaves the press, and even if the coin is STILL AT THE MINT , and say the coin gets stuck in a counting machine and is damaged, the coin is Damaged and not gradable. PCGS made a mistake on this one, someone ask Fred.
If only there was a collective group of coin grading experts that actually physically examined this coin in person, and all came to a single concensus. Shoot. If only. . .
Of note, the top two TPGs label waffled coins as "Mint Cancelled" and not damaged, probably because the waffling was intentional.
@FredWeinberg Can you comment on the above? Your expertise is requested
Yes they will not labeled as mint errors but mint canceled. I have sold a ton of them.
The coin in question is damaged, the op knows this, the buyer may think he is getting a lowball coin, but is not and is being tricked.
They're not being tricked if the TPG graded it an ag03. It's like like it's raw and I'm saying "here's your lowball Roosevelt dime." I don't necessarily care what it's being called here, what matters is that the TPG's called it AG03 and that's what it's selling it as. You're acting like you don't sell the coin for what it is on the slab.
My YouTube Channel
Dang, still has more to say even after promising, " I am done with your thread".
That's not my question to answer, as this coin did not have a GoPro on it it's entire life. That's the job I have to the TPG, which graded it. You got me as to how it got like that. Who knows?
I am simply giving the OP an opportunity to be HONEST in his listing as HE ADMITTED that the coin is not naturally worn.
The buyer will be disappointed.
By an amazing coincidence, I happened to notice yesterday that there were two coins, a cent and a dime, stuck in the bottom of the washing machine that came with the house we moved into a few months ago. This particular model has an outer shell, curved in a bit at the bottom, that spins to extract water from the clean load, and an agitator that includes the base of the tub. The agitator and base go back and forth relative to the outer shell. There is a narrow groove between the outer edge of the agitator base and the inner edge of the shell base.
The reverse of the dime was facing out, against the concave curved base of the shell. As the agitator rolled the coin back and forth against the shell, the reverse rim of the coin wore down rather like the OP's coin, though not as severely as the OP's coin. Nevertheless, many of the letters are merged into the rim.
The coin being flat, the center of the reverse is mostly intact, though there is some flattening on the high parts of the torch and the two branches.
On the obverse, which was up against the convex base of the agitator, the rims are basically intact because the flatness of the coin kept them away from the agitotor, while the center is heavily rubbed down.
The reeded edge is beaten down somewhat from rolling back and forth across whatever is under the base, but the individual reeds are still separated.
Will try to post pictures if I can.
Perhaps the buyer won't care what the history is with this one. I know I wouldn't. Sometimes it is fun to simply collect the unusual and this dime certainly fits the bill!
There was a collector a few years back that found a worn out state quarter in change. I purchased it raw, sent it in to pcgs along with a small grouping. Let me try and locate it, take a quick photo and post. (hint: PCGS doesn't ALWAYS get it wrong on these strange modern coins. . .). Give me a few minutes.
peacockcoins
I can't find the thread (old boards) but it was one of those, "guess the grades", I think. PM contact with the OP afforded me the chance to purchase and then I submitted. (Obviously was hoping for what the OP achieved!)
peacockcoins
PCGS really needs to step up to the plate on this thread ..... Reputation matters.
I have seen many, many examples of "dryer" coins that are damaged in the dryer.
Is PCGS going to slab all of these Damaged coins as "lowball" coins or are they going to bodybag them?
MY kid has a rock tumbler. Can someone put a bunch of coins in a rock tumbler for awhile and then submit to PCGS for lowball certs and get them?
If you're insinuating that I did this to this coin, you're out of your mind. I bought the coin like this. You either are as dense as the lead blanket on the x-ray table or simply did not read or see the original post.
Very interesting!!! That very well may be what happened. Just possibly a longer exposure to the agitator?
OP Is like school in summertime.
He keeps saying the same thing over and over again. You people are typical Elder Numismatists. And you wonder why the YN's don't want anything to do with you.
I suspect so.
Followers can be bought, the amount means nothing.
@basetsb_coins on Instagram
You were talking about how many you have. It means nothing.
@basetsb_coins on Instagram
You're having trouble following along. The total amount of followers means nothing. The amount of coin related followers will obviously increase your odds of buying/selling coins you like.
@basetsb_coins on Instagram
My account is also private, and yours is not. I screen the people who want to follow me.
A quick trip to your followers panel revealed dozens of Russians, Arabic-speaking people, and the like. I only let people who I can converse with and have any potential for making a sale follow me, including 12 year olds (which is what most of the coin profiles are composed of). Even with that being said, I have no new followers that purchase anything of merit from me. I do more buying for them from others than anything. Every morning I wake up to quite a few Russians and middle eastern people.
@pa_coins 's profile also used to be private, and we had relatively the same amount of followers, give or take a few hundred because he was on there a bit longer. He opened his profile up to the world, oh, maybe a year ago now, and he has gained thousands of followers, day and night. Do any of those Lithuanians and Russians or middle easterners come to him and ask to buy things, or me, likewise? No. I wouldn't sell to them anyway because of the shipping hassle. The furthest I've shipped was Canada and back a few times because our postal systems are generally the same and handle packages well and track well. I can't say the same about any other country in the world.
Come on, bragging about followers seems a bit trivial. There's no base for it, anyway.
It was a good attempt at an ad-hominem, though. I'll give you that.
This thread sucks with pictures.
I mean, IG is not my only gateway to sell coins either. I haven't attempted to really push and sell anything as hard as I used to. I really like to open it up and see what great eBay snipes @jr_coins77 got or what amazing new Morgan @colorbombcoins posted today. It's pretty neat the things you see there. A sale is just lagniappe.
Lol @ the rocks and potatoes reference. It really doesn't fit well for the sake of the argument.
You and I both buy an MS63 coin as MS63. If the coin inside has a lamination peel that PCGS did not catch (as my latest capped bust half has), and I buy it, according to your logic towards me, the seller knowingly ripped me off because PCGS (when part of their job is to screen stuff like that out) did not catch it and bodybag it with a "peeling lamination" label. It's graded, so should I contact PCGS and get the cert pulled because the capped half has a lamination error? If that's what all of us are supposed to do (PCGS' job), then we may as well not even have a certification service. I mean, seriously. We're paying them HOW much to give their opinions? Key word opinions. I can't tell you how many peeling lamination coins I've seen holdered. If it's MY job to call up PCGS or contact seniors in the company to get the cert pulled for a coin that's got peeling lamination but has a straight grade, why are we paying them?
What are we paying them for if we think we know more than the graders? Why don't we sell raw and assign a grade...oh wait, we can't. The world wants certified coins. This coin is certified. Just like my capped half that has a lamination error/planchet flaw. It's a VF35 and I bought it as such. I felt no resentment to the seller because it graded. That's just insanity. The graders believed the coin was market acceptable and graded it as such. If not, it would've been bodybagged and sent back. The concept is rather simple.
Comparing apples to oranges, or in your case rocks to potatoes, does not make a strong case. Humans make mistakes. That's why we are humans and not Gods. Nobody is a perfect being. That's just fact. The multiple graders agreed in the grade, as they do on ten thousand coins per day. It's not like they take notes on why they grade the coin the way they do, they don't have time for that. None of us would.
Apples to oranges
Rocks to potatoes
Gold bond to mayonnaise
Eminem the rapper to Elvis
Beauty and the beast to Bravehart
Snails to Mountain Lions
Extra Firm to down pillows
Poison Ivy to Tulips
One can make a comparison, but it doesn't mean it's legitimate, lol.
Now PCGS Fault? This convo changes like the wind...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Doesn't it?
How much time and energy can be spent on pocket change? Someone post a coin that isn't a pure novelty.
Duplicate.
I love this one. Sent to anacs late 90's. Came back AU55. I was happy with that. Sent that same piece back to anacs for reholder, (coin able to rotate in old holder). SYN, came back MS62, didn't ask for a regrade. That coin stayed that way for a number of years. PCGS at one point didn't recognize this variety. Joined the collectors club around 2008 and found that in fact now was a recognized variety. Send it in for crossover, lo and behold MS62.
1936 Doubled Die, Die 01.
PS: LOVE my Lincolns this way, Brown and beautiful.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Great 1936 Die 1 !
Does this mean that it is NW (natural wear) or AW (artificial wear)? I'm so confused.
I guess it is market acceptable (MA)... but not completely original.
Sold!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2004-D-PCGS-AG03-ROOSEVELT-DIME-NO-RESERVE-LOWEST-GRADE-NEW-DOILY-/272714693411
-Grading fees,
Net profit?
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
-Purchase price
-grading fees/shipping
-eBay/PayPal fees
= not much if any
I don't think the lowball market is as strong as some think but that's not saying much the coin market overall is not good for sellers right now.
$56.55! Great price for such a Low grade, right? Are you satisfied in the end, OP? The final chapter in a very interesting thread!
One More Thing... Great story coin for whoever bought it!
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.I would be interested in knowing the profit after grading fees, ebay fees, paypal fees, shipping fees, etc.
$16 Modern coin grading fee
$10 Secure Plus
$7 Special Label (Retro Doily) (Service level fee plus Special Label fee of $7 per coin)
Est. $15 Shipping & Handling fee (were probably part of a larger order)
$5.66 10% eBay fees (normally)
$1.70 3% PayPal fees (normally)
$55.36 in estimated fees = not much meat left on the bone.
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The feeling you get for being right when other forum members were wrong: Priceless.