Updated: Buying USPS insurance through eBay...how can I prove?
LRCTom
Posts: 857 ✭✭✭
Update: two days after I filed the claim, it showed up on the USPS website as PAID. A couple days later, the check for the refund amount appeared in my PO Box. Kudos to USPS for quick and efficient handling of this claim.
I had a buyer receive a package that had been broken into, and the coin was gone. I need to file an insurance claim. But how can I prove to the USPS that I bought insurance, when I did it through the eBay system (unlike the old way, when you kept the blue and white slip). Does the tracking number somehow indicate this? I can't find any other way of proving I actually paid for insurance.
Anyone else had to deal with this?
...Tom
LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics
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The label you printed through eBay was recorded as being insured. Check the tracking number.
The USPS will be able to do the same.
Unless you sent it registered mail, coins are not insured by the USPS and neither are they insured through Ebay. It's an explicit exception to their coverage. Even if you paid for it, they aren't going to reimburse you.
I'm currently using this company and they will insure coins up to $10,000 in most cases. $500 coverage costs $1.50 as long as you use priority mail.
https://www.shipandinsure.com/solutions.aspx
Unless things have recently changed, not true. I no longer insure most packages, but I did a few years ago, and they paid up on a few lost claims. Took a lot of arguing with them, to prove the value, etc, but they eventually paid.
From the Ebay website:
II. THE INSURANCE DOES NOT INSURE:
Coins, bullion, loose diamonds or stones, stocks, bonds, currency, deeds, evidences of debt, travelers checks, money orders, gift certificates, calling cards, lottery tickets, admission tickets, or any other negotiable documents.
http://pages.ebay.com/insurance/shipping/coverage.html
This is the coverage you buy when you print your postage on Ebay. As far as the USPS is concerned, they are very strict about not paying claims on coins if you don't use registered mail.
This is not correct. Coins and currency as well as bullion are not insurable (unless shipped via registered mail), but numismatic collectibles are. There is a difference.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I just went through this with a 3rd level manager at Ebay and argued until I had to take an aspirin. They will absolutely NOT insure coins sent through the USPS. I was missing a package worth over $900 and I already had an investigation being processed by the postal service.
It's explicitly written into their coverage and while they may have made exceptions in the past, they have no requirement to do so.
The page linked is not usps. I was talking about usps. USPS DOES insure coins. I have won multiple claims for lost coins.
Ebay has nothing to do with USPS insurance unless you use THEIR insurance service (Ship Cover) in which case you are subject to those terms and conditions. USPS will cover insurance claims as stipulated above for collectibles and items of numismatic value.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Why would you talk to ebay about usps policies? Find me a link saying they don't. They DO cover coins.
How do they differentiate numismatic collectible and bullion, say a pf70 ASE. Thats both. Who makes the call? I have heard it go both ways. Sometimes you get reimbursed sometimes you don't.
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"I had a buyer receive a package that had been broken into, and the coin was gone. I need to file an insurance claim. But how can I prove to the USPS that I bought insurance, when I did it through the eBay system"
Here's the shipping screen from Ebay. PLEASE NOTE the insurance you purchase through Ebay:
I believe all eagles, silver, gold and platinum would be properly classified as bullion regardless of grade.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Everywhere I've ever read on this topic says the only coin insurance you can buy is registered.
That's not USPS insurance, that's Ship Cover (which I referred to above). You stated USPS does not provide insurance claims for coins which is incorrect. If you are insuring coins, you should NOT use Ship Cover but USPS for insurance.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The USPS does not insure coins that are not mailed through registered mail.
My Ebay Store
That is also incorrect, on both counts, too.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Where are you seeing that screenshot of the insurance purchased? Ebay gives you two options, insurance through shipcover (does not insure coins) and usps insurance (does insure coins). The title of this thread is "Buying USPS insurance through ebay", not "buying shipcover insurance through ebay" so we are talking about USPS insurance. Where did you screenshot the insurance purchased... your page?
Neither of us knows which insurance he purchased. The default is shipcover so I'm going to assume that's what he purchased. However if I'm wrong..........
Link one single reference online confirming that USPS covers coins.
This was definitely USPS insurance, which does cover coins. ShipCover does not..they make it clear in their Terms and Conditions.
If what Topographic says is true, and I'll find out tomorrow if it is, the tracking number will provide the proof. I'll find out tomorrow and provide an update.
...Tom
LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics
Well, we do know what insurance he purchased since in the title of this thread the OP states USPS insurance, not Ebay's ship cover insurance.
You can purchase up to $5,000 in insurance via the USPS insurance option through Ebay.
And the USPS WILL pay an insurance claim for a coin if it is declared as a collectible or item of numismatic value. The stipulation in the USPS insurance terms which refers to coins is to currency and cash at face value, not to collectibles or coins of numismatic value. There is a difference.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Well, they do not list each and item they DO insure, only what they DON'T. So for example, they also don't say they insure Ipods, etc, etc. Numerous reports of people winning claims on coins confirms it (I've had at least 2 payouts). Since the poster said USPS insurance, I take it that's what he bought. If he bought shipcover, it's another story.
http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/609.htm
4.1 section g. Determing value of numismatic items.
Boom. Well done. I was on the same page earlier but scrolled right past it.
Thank you.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
4.1 Payable Claim
Insurance for loss or damage to insured, COD, or Registered Mail within the amount covered by the fee paid, or the indemnity limits for Priority Mail, or Priority Mail Express (under 4.2), is payable for the following:
And then 4.2:
For negotiable items, currency, or bullion, the maximum indemnity is $15.00.
Coins of numismatic value are not considered currency. That is the distinction you are failing to understand.
To wit:
For stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value; the fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers. The date of the fair market value determination must be current and prior to the mailing date.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
http://www.goldismoney2.com/threads/usps-ever-refuse-to-insure-your-coins.16422/
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/831866/usps-rejected-insured-ebay-lost-coins-claim
They are however completely and in every respect a negotiable item.
See above. To wit:
For stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value; the fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers. The date of the fair market value determination must be current and prior to the mailing date.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
https://gold-forum.kitco.com/archive/index.php/t-111364.html
That means you can't insure cash, or bullion. Check the link above yours for proof you can insure numismatic coins.
As I also stated above, bullion is not covered unless shipped via registered mail.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Unfortunately this section also applies to registered main insurance with specific exceptions under priority and express mail. Yes you can get coin insurance through registered mail. I have now posted THREE specific instances of people getting $15-$20 settlements from the USPS for shipping numismatic coins.
A $2009 $20 ultra high relief selling for nearly twice melt is bullion?
The difference is numismatic value. The part I referenced specifically mentions numismatic (and philatelic) value determination.
I think it could be tougher if you are selling an MS-68 slabbed AGE as we all know that is bullion vs. a Draped Bust dollar that is clearly numismatic (unless you live in Minnesota).
Yes, it is.
All of your examples are cases involving bullion, which is why the claims weren't paid.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Look, the usps is a semi government agency, so is a PAIN to deal with. Of COURSE they are going to try to get out of paying up. They denied my first requests too. You have to persevere. I copied their rules about numismatic coins, threatened legal action, etc, then they paid. Their own rules say they cover them, you just have to call them out on it sometimes.
I don't know if this thread has degenerated into splitting hairs or if the USPS isn't consistent with their insurance claims or whether the entire thing is open to interpretation. However I've read enough personal reports of getting screwed out of insurance shipping coins to avoid USPS insurance forevermore.
By definition, no it isn't. It's selling for far more than melt therefore cannot be bullion.
Perhaps the rules have changed, or they are not getting enforced correctly. The section I linked to is 609 and applies to all domestic mail. If I had a claim treated incorrectly I'd be ramming it up the chain of command. Hard. Loudly. With much publicity.
I would agree it is numismatic, and the seller got screwed by usps on that one. If they had appealed the case, they probably would have won. Like I said, the usps is semi government, so the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Many there don't even know their own rules.
This is all I need to avoid USPS insurance like the plague. I'll either ship registered or use private insurance. Anyway back to the OP, he hasn't clarified so I'm not sure which one he purchased, but I'm willing to bet it was shipcover.
The classification is based on category not value.
If nothing else, after this thread, you ought to realize that a) you can purchase USPS insurance through ebay for up to $5,000 when using priority mail and b) that numismatic collectibles are covered by USPS insurance terms and conditions. I also wouldn't classify any precious metal coin struck within the last 20 years as a numismatic coin.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I save all my shipping notice emails which could be forwarded to the usps if they seem to think you didn't purchase insurance.
He already stated the insurance was purchased via USPS.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
>
How do you know??
bul·lion
ˈbo͝olyən/Submit
noun
1. gold or silver in bulk before coining, or valued by weight.
I give up, lol..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
That's not correct. He said he wanted to know how to prove to USPS that he bought insurance through Ebay. He said nothing about what type of insurance he purchased. He might not even know.
It was a serious question. How do you know the USPS determines bullion by some arbitrary standard and not.........uh..........the dictionary?
I can guarantee in a court of law, only the dictionary is going to be relevant.
Again, to wit:
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.