How not to act as a dealer.
golden
Posts: 9,998 ✭✭✭✭✭
As I was making the rounds of the recent CSNS show I came to the table of a dealer from the left coast. There were 2 or 3 guys behind the table including a young dealer. I saw an interesting coin and asked the young guy the price. He turned to the backup table and looked at an inventory sheet and then said " That is a very expensive coin ". I had to really,really restrain myself from saying that I could purchase every coin in his case. I then repeated very strongly " How much is it? ". He said $1650. That is about 4 times the PCGS price guide and it was not even nice. I moved on around the floor.
I remember seeing this guy at the FUN show. He was very hyper and pushy. If you are going to judge customers by how much money you think that they have you might not be successful . I will remember this guy and not stop at his table again.
Comments
Some people are so judgemental. I have heard of stories of collectors who look rather tattered in thier appearance who could "buy the table" of coins, and are given the "look down the nose" from the dealer. So sad that people are that way; "judging the book by the cover". Move along.
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I'll phrase it loosely
I use it as a jerk detector.
works great.
This problem seems to especially bad among dealers who deal with the upper 1%. I recall visiting Stack's in New York, circa early 1990s when I was in town on business. I asked to see some "average collector" type of coins and was met with disinterest. That was my one and only visit to Stack's.
Should have responded "I need to pickpocket some more people then. I'll be back".
I feel your pain. I would get some of that from a few dealers before(when I was in my early/mid 20's). I would get it for 1K coins too. Either you ignore it or you say 'Thank you' and walk away. I had dealer in the past tell me that they had the coin(s) I was looking for but they're not going to bother to pull them out because they're pack away. Cool. I will never do business with you guys again.
Now when I was at CSNS, they would show me whatever I wanted. When I found out a certain coin was 15K, I had to pretend that someone bumped into me and knocked me down and not that I fainted when I heard the price.
Now I completely understand that dealers will judge and think this person can't afford it, but I think it would be easier if they just say " Sure. Now this coin is going to be $5K. Do you still want to see it?". Of if they don't know the exact price "This one will be over 3K. Do you still want to see it?" It just puts everyone on the same page.
Does left coast ryhme with West Coast :0
Sometimes, looks are meant to be deceiving.
I get that sometimes at shows, as I look like the person who scares Hells Angels gangs.
I had that happen to me at CSNS show too, I blame it mostly on my young age (22). I had quite a few dealers pay no attention to me until their table was empty and a few not even get up out of their chair to help me. I had that same thing happen to me though "That is a pretty pricey coin, but I have a few other lower grades you might be interested in". Well sir I didn't spend $100 on gas, $100 on food, and $100 for a hotel to come here and buy a $50 coin.
I learned this a few years ago. A scraggly looking guy came to my table at a show. At first I was thinking of blowing him off..but as he looked through my stuff, he'd keep saying "I'll take this. and I'll take this..." Bought enough to more than pay my expenses for the show. It turns out he has a flea market coin business that does quite well.
LRC Numismatics eBay listings:
http://stores.ebay.com/lrcnumismatics
If I was in the right mood, I probably would have quoted them your last sentence.
Pre-internet I used to go to B&M coin stores...can't say I ever had a positive experience...when I lived in Manhattan..Stacks and Brigandi were among the worst....
"An educated consumer is our best customer" was the tagline of clothing company Syms...the dealers I do business with now...DWN, David Kahn, CRO, Tom Bush...understand this...
Treat people the way you want to be treated...
jon
I get the middle age pass, they answer cause they can not figure out if I have money or not.
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working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
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Playing the devils advocate, maybe the dealer realized that the price was steep for the coin and grade and used the "expensive" opening to soften the news.
Tough to imagine that a dealer at a major show would prejudge a buyer at that price level as that is a MS65 Saint range.
Or maybe he was a jerk.
I'd just say I can't afford nice clothes because I spend all my money on coins.
He was not going to tell me the price unless I forced the issue.
I wandered into Harlan Berk's place one day when I was in Chicago on business. I was thinking about a detour into ancients and was disappointed when I didn't see too many in the ground-level storefront display cases.
I explained what I was looking for and within moments was escorted to the elevator for a ride "up top". Harlan greeted me there and my guide departed back down the elevator. Sensing I was about to drown in the deep end, I made it very clear that I was a NewB in the realm of ancients and not likely to spend all that much.
Mr Berk was gracious enough to take 20-30 minutes with me taking me on a mini tour of Ancient Rome. At the end of our visit he said "Want to see something cool?" He then disappeared back in the vault I suppose and brought out a small tray full of raw 5-7 figure coins (some unique) and insisted that I inspect them, handle them, and enjoy them. What a memorable experience that was. I selected a couple of representative coins to take with me (from a different tray!!!), paid for them, thanked him, and was presented with a gift of his 100 most important ancient coins book. I didn't have the sense to ask him to autograph it. Some of the coins I had been holding were in the book.
I don't know what their shop is like all the time but that day they were coin dealer Gods in my estimation.
Kindness and a presumption of human decency still goes a long way in this world. Dealers like the one in the OP's story will always be out there. Better to figure out who they are quickly and spend your $$ somewhere else.
There are one or two dealers I wouldn't accept free double eagles from.
Fair enough.
That would be rather upsetting. That's why I like dealers like Larry Shapiro. He has a ton of high end big dollar items. I have purchased a handful of coins from hIm and he's always looking out. Even if I buy lower end coins (in 1921 Peace Dollar MS63) and not one of his 50,000 coins.
I felt the same way at a few tables at CSNS.
Two thoughts come to mind:
That dealer Musta thought the OP was one broke dude to not be able to afford a $1600 coin, as that is not much for a coin these days. That would be insulting.
Harlan Berk is one class act and I have new respect for him now.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
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Every time I went into Harlan Berk's I was into U.S. coins and it was back when Tom DeLorey was behind the counter. But he was of course completely top-notch to deal with.
Kind regards,
George
I am also amazed at how some dealers try to stereotype folks. I've seen more collectors come in in tattered overalls and then shock some when they go to buy something as they pull out a wad of $100 bills that would choke a horse!
More millionaires drive Pickup trucks than any other vehicle!
"Okay, thank you" a handback and a stifled snicker speaks volumes.
Try it.
I have observed that type of treatment at several different venues. I do not wear Armani suits to go to coin shows or gun shows... or on any other shopping excursions. High level business meetings are something else entirely. Even they are changing a bit. That being said, there are many who 'judge by appearance'...often to their detriment. In social or business occasions, my opinion is formed from the greeting point on through the general discourse. While I do not immediately assign judgement, it often moves in the general direction of the initial contact. Although some interactions become more like a roller coaster... starting one way and then quickly changing course.... Social intercourse is fascinating and has always intrigued me. Cheers, RickO
I would go back to the same dealer at a different show just for the fun of it. He may have learned how to treat customers.
If you see me at a show I will be the one speaking Russian with my two Natasha bodyguards. I usually dress scruffy so I blend in with all you others. I may not look like I have enough to spend on coins, but if I can afford bodyguards I can also afford your coins.
Great thread!
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If he made that one sale, his show would have been complete, not very far-sighted though.
I had the exact same experience about 6 years ago when I was in NYC for a visit. I made a special effort while there to visit their store. I was met with a very snobby reception and felt that basically they didn't have time for me and my sub-$1000 coin requests. Needless to say I won't make the effort to go back. I'll stick to purchasing from their auctions.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
An authentic Patek-Philippe is a "tell" for serious dealers. Shiny newer models get higher quotes than well-worn classics, which imply insouciance and staying power.
Re: Kccoin above . . . . I am fairly sure I am aware of the dealer in this case, and I think your rhyme is right. I have heard the same verbiage, and I set up at a couple OR shows near him as well as see him at other Regional events.
I have watched him from a fledgling collector, to a starting dealer doing a few lots on eBay, to now a large eBay presence as well as rather nice inventory. To his credit . . . he has been a self-made man. Being aware of how he deals, I would think the comment he made (quite routine as I have heard it many times as I watch potential customers go by his table), was more to prep the pricing of the coin as opposed to qualifying the buyer as competent or able to financially pull off the deal.
Not sure if I would regard him as 'hyper' or 'pushy'. I have not seen that evidenced at all, but pricing, well . . . . yes. I like his inventory but would say it is 'hard' to buy from him at levels I feel comfortable with.
He has seemed to work hard to find a niche in this rather difficult market, and, knowing him since he was a teen, I think I could say he would be surprised to know his comments can be offensive. I think it might be revealing to him if I somewhat tactfully reveal this thread to him with the desire to educate him on how he needs to be perceived, which might not be how he thinks he is., Frankly, I think he would be appalled to know he alienated a customer . . . but Golden is 100% right . . . his comments might be perceived quite negatively.
Perhaps this can be a learning experience for him. I hope so. The enjoyment in this hobby may to some degree be the quest and the accruing of prize pieces . . but in a larger sense, it is about people, friends, and mutual enjoyment of a hobby we all find as fun and a respite from our daily grind. I bet he would like to be a part of that . . .and not one who would be detrimental. We shall see . . .
Drunner
Ive had similar experiences at a dealers table that posts lots of show reports here. Always short with me , even when no one at table. Im 30 with a beard and look like id fit in better on a baseball field then a coin show. Doesnt bother me at all .... gives me stories to laugh about with my other dealer buddies
But if the dealer is rude it makes it so much easier to turn and walk away after he gives you the price
I guess the dealer will have to settle for my 300 rubleI(abt $10) Molniya pocket watch made at a watch factory in Chelyabinsk.
Harlan is a class act and a true gentleman. I have had only a few interactions with him while at the ANA. Unlike many dealers I interacted with while on staff, he was humble, polite, and rather cerebral.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I've thought of wearing my Patek Phillipe to a show, but I'm carrying enough coins and cash on me already. I don't need to risk wearing a $10,000 watch to impress a dealer.
this thread is ridiculous. i have had this happen to me before. The way I understand it, the dealer simply was telling you the coin is expensive vs reality. granted maybe they should not have had it out. it does not sound like he was knocking or being rude to you. the chip on your shoulder seems too thin. i'd bet you took it wrong.
They don't pay any attention to me b/c 90% of the people on earth never heard of PP, also maybe b/c I usually wear a T-shirt and khakis to coin shows.
I enjoy tremendously setting up at shows.
I hope that my enjoyment comes through to my customers/potential customers.
I can't comprehend the rude dealers, obnoxious types, etc.
To me, not a very successful business model.
I like to keep it fun.
Life's too short to be a jerk.
Sounds like fun.
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If selling a $1650 coin is enough to make a whole show, I am glad I don't do that for a living!
At a recent show I walked by the table of an unfamiliar dealer, saw a coin of potential interest, asked to see it and was told "That's really expensive".
He didn't mean "You can't afford that", he meant he was asking too much. Turned out the coin was on consignment and the owner wanted a lot, so while the dealer had it in the case, and was ostensibly trying to market it, he was making it clear that he did not believe in the asking price.
In my experience, this sort of thing isn't an especially rare or unusual occurrence, as I probably encounter that a couple times a year.
I am not suggesting this is what happened in the OP's story, it is however a different perspective on why dealers may say that and what they might mean.
Coin Rarities Online
Hey, no pocket pool. This is a G Rated forum...
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/2819
there was a dealer here on the right side of the u.s. that was rude with a lot of people at a show years back. i was told later that he was asked not to come back to any of the shows. we never saw him again. its to bad it had to end that way but some were glad of it.
Back in the 60's, this old "homeless" man used to shop at a hardware store where my dad worked through high school. The first time he walked in, no one would wait on him except my dad. After that, he wouldn't let anyone else wait on him, especially after he was identified as THE DuPont.
Let's see. If I'm facing south I guess your talking about the east coast.
Not sure which coast your referring to. Trust me when I say these kind of dealers are all over the place so please don't try to put the blame on either coast here.
When I visit a coin show I'm loaded for bear. If a dealer was to give me the tone he gave you I would most definitely give the SOB an earful he would not forget anytime soon. Speak up! Don't just put your tail between your legs and walk off. Let the SOB know your feelings. This is the way I live my life. If everyone would do that then they might get a clue on how to treat people.
You have also got to understand a dealer can ask what for their coins. But that sure as hell doesn't mean he'll be doing much business.
The "I can buy every coin in his case" line strikes me as somewhat arrogant in itself, but I can see the concern that dealers could be more courteous and all the other boyscout virtues. At an area show a couple months ago a wealthy dealer said he almost gave me a year timeout from visiting his table because I commented on someone's currency items on an online forum! I am not an expert by any means on currency and I see no harm in civil discussions of numismatic items online. This is a hobby first, in my opinion, and if people saw it as such in their interactions with other hobbyists we would all do better.
I also sense an arrogant tone with the "I can buy anything he has statement "
But the point I'm trying to make is to speak up rather than to bring it here. This is not going to help your situation going forward. Speak up!
This thread reminds me how as a young family with two young girls 4 and 5 the reception we got furniture and car shopping.
Didn't get upset with the furniture salesman who told us we could buy a $180 kitchen set on time since we all have different size checkbooks.
Was annoyed in a high end furniture store when none of the "interior decorators" came over (store was empty) but the owner did and gave us a tour of both floors of furniture.
I knew he was the owner since my father had just completed a major addition to his home and also knew my mother shared the same cleaning lady.
I didn't have the opportunity to bring up either facts and he may very well have thought we couldn't his inventory but pretty sure those ladies got the message that all customers walking into the store were to be shown around the store.
Most annoying memory was a car dealer who told me "he could tell when we walked in that saving some money was very important to us" and proceeded to steer us to a year old model that was fully equipped. I refused to deal with him on my second trip a few weeks later.
After negotiating the purchase of a new car my 6 yr old daughter asked me as we were walking outside what the manager who was a foot taller than myself meant when he said "he wanted to be just like me when he grow up". That was his response when I answered "none" to his question of who would be the lien holder of the new car.
I say all the time when someone ask me a price on specific stuff, "it's way too much", as I reflect after reading this thread it's interesting, cause I'm saying it to move them away from the piece because I'm assuming they are interested in more of a generic type pricing like a buck or less over spot, instead of multiples, which to my knowledge I've been right everytime, but to their perception, I may have been wrong every time, may have to change it up...