How many crossover attempts is enough to get you to throw in the towel?
ModCrewman
Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭✭✭
I just received the dreaded DNC for the 3rd time on an NGC coin I've been trying to cross.
I had joked with my wife when sending it in this last time that it's becoming like a gambling addiction at this point. I just keep trying and throwing money down the hole hoping they'll change their mind. It's a significant coin, stickered by a respected source, and would nearly be a top-pop if successful.
The official poll Question: When is it time to concede and throw in the towel recognizing that they simply aren't going to cross it?
The follow-up question is "What is the highest number of crossover attempts you've made on a single coin before finally getting it to cross?"
How many crossover attempts is enough to get you to throw in the towel?
This is a private poll: no-one will see what you voted for.
0
Comments
Never tried because the odds are 3 to 1 you lose.
No repeats for me...although it would depend on the value of the coin and money spread.
Depends on what it is.
Are you trying to cross it at a particular grade or "Any"?
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
I am trying to cross at grade. It wouldn't be a killer if it went down a grade, but I'd sure prefer if it didn't; I'd have to guess the problem is the designation.
Just once for me. I figure if they couldn't get it right the first time (or it was right the first time), the chances are slim they'll get it right the second time.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I don't do cross-overs. I buy the coin I like in either a PCGS (by for most often) or NGC holder. The coin stays were it is. I would rather spend my money on more coins.
I have done crack-outs and submissions for higher grades. For me that's a one and done.
Could you show the coin and the grade it is now?
Cross at any grade to get it in PCGS plastic. Then do a regrade for a proper, raw judgment. In my experience it upgrades very frequently.
Lance.
How many coins would a woodchuck cross if a woodchuck could cross coins?
Maybe you should have someone else submit it.
once.
Is it the coin I think it is?
I think it depends on the coin.
Coin Rarities Online
Really depends on the coin, imho, and how well you know your coin/series and your honest thoughts on it.
Tale of 2 coins:
One was NGC and I tried it 3-4 times. Initially, I put it on a regular order. After 2x doing that, I almost gave up. Proof IHC. I knew it should cross. Later, I added it as an "add-on" coin. Finally, I just put it in with during one of the crossover specials. It finally crossed there, like I believe it should have the entire time.
The other coin, also NGC, but a MS IHC. If it crossed to PCGS, as I think it should, it would then become one of the top pop. I think that is why it isn't crossing. It's only a few hundred $$$ coin right now, and wouldn't go up that much if it crossed, but I don't feel like cracking it out as I enjoy the coin anyhow. I think it has been attempted 3x by me. Oh well.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
So frusturating though to sort of, "give up" on a coin only to see it a few months later in a higher, fresh slab! That's happened to me once on a 1971-D Ike dollar I just knew deserved the MS67 grade.
peacockcoins
Yup that would be my strategy....
Best, SH
Wouldn't a crack-out do the same thing in one step?
No. It could bodybag.
Lance.
If a coin is a top pop, or near, don't count on it crossing through plastic.
While true.....I kind of made the assumption if we are seeking a straight cross, and have enough confidence that we are willing to try it numerous times, we aren't talking about a border-line bodybag coin.
You shouldn't have to do this!!!
Screwed once on a grade will not send back especially if experienced eyes see it is no problem and high end. There is a grading style--if you know how they grade you know what is worth the try raw or certified for crossover.
I agree, TommyType.
But really, if we are confident the coin will not bodybag then we shouldn't be thinking "cross" at all. Why accept a conservative, through-the-plastic assessment and then pay a premium fee at that?
Dimeman, I'm with you. We shouldn't have to do this two-step thing! Two fees, two waiting periods, double mailing costs. It's outrageous.
PCGS could fix this for us: After graders agree to a cross and assign a grade (and we know they are concerned about hidden surprises so they protect themselves and PCGS), and after they send it on its way for cracking and slabbing and mailing, the coin could be returned to graders for a second look after cracking but before slabbing.
Then they will have the raw look they always prefer and can confidently give the coin a proper (fair) grade.
This isn't done, I'm told, because it is a slower, longer process and on the surface it feels like redundant, costly effort.
I am not big on raising grading fees. But I'd pay a little more for this "2nd look and reassessment". It would surely cost less than the two-step thing.
Lance.
Great poll!!! Thanks!
Two is my limit
It is.
There is a 5-4-3-2-1 theory. On the first time, you submit all five, one crossed. On the second trial, one out of 4 crossed. After that one of three, and then one of two and very last one of one made to a PCGS slab.
In this case, you submit 15 coins and five crossed. Bam, 33% cross rate.
What does this tells you
Years ago, I purchased a near-six figure coin after a dealer had submitted it back and forth between PCGS and NGC a total of 40 times, each time cracking the coin out to submit it raw. It was returned to them as an MS63 each and every time, until they were sick of re-submitting. When I finally had the chance to actually buy the coin, it was already raw again, in preparation of yet another submission. I wanted the coin in a holder, so I sent it back to PCGS, and BAM, it was returned to me in a fresh PCGS MS64 holder!!
Great story. I've been wondering how many times I have to submit a coin I recently acquired and this is inspiration.
So my question is if you have a coin with a green bean and the coin crosses, I hear that you can resubmit the coin to CAC and they will put the green bean back on the coin.
So if you take the same coin and crack it out and it comes back a grade lower. Can you submit to CAC and will they give a gold bean?
Here is my Washington Quarter Variety Registry Set
This is my Washington Quarter Proof Variety Registry Set
I'm seeing an idea.....send it to Cardinal and have HIM submit it!
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I have never attempted a crossover. I just crack em and resubmit.
I still tend to believe that some of the submittals are NOT anonymous. I can see a coin or batch of coins getting the VIP treatment with a note or some other form of communication given between the dispatcher (person taking the coins to the grading room) and the grader.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Typically 2 or maybe 3 max .. however that is rare.
My all time record on resubmissions is 8, but that was a raw coin, not a crossover.
My Coin Blog
My Toned Lincoln Registry Set
Good question. Logic would say yes. (If you had a nice image of the coin in the prior slab with a bean)
I would get CAC's opinion about restickering BEFORE I cracked it out.
Second question; not necessarily.
I have never tried
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I generally subscribe to this philosophy adding that I would buy either raw or in a PCGS holder. The coin is in my opinion a truly special coin, but cracking it from the NGC holder and potentially losing the designation is a $3,000 gamble if I can't get it back into a DCAM holder and I'm not willing to take that risk.
@ModCrewman you had me at DCAM. May I ask for pics?!
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
This is what I would call poetic justice and ONE (+1) for the collector !
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I tried to cross an NGC 58 twice and it came back 50 both times.
I'm guessing you don't mean "cross" since I don't know how you could attempt to cross the same coin twice and get an AU50 grade each time. Did you crack it?
Or maybe this was many years ago when PCGS would tell you why it didn't cross by citing the lower grade it deserved?
Lance.
never tried it here. i got the coin because i like it.
But if you might sell it and the future owner prefers another brand of plarstic, you're leaving money on the table. Always be mindful of what the market likes.
In the old days there was an economic reason to do this since PCGS carried a heavy premium over NGC. I think that premium has been mostly erased and that more people are concentrating on the coin instead of the holder.
Maybe it varies from series to series, but there is still a significant premium for PCGS over NGC for many U.S. coins.
In the series I focus on there is also a fairly big difference in grading standards which contributes to the premium, no doubt.
Lance.
I have never done it.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
It depends on the upshot. If I am confident that it is all there and if the potential increase in value supports it, I would submit it as many times as was necessary.
Not always. I had a few junk slabs laying around including a "better" date condition rarity modern in an ICG holder. Since I had nothing better to do, I threw it in an economy submission for the February crossover special. It crossed at grade to my surprise! That was the first attempt.
Yeah, I tried to cross once and reconsider once.
I buy the coin I like and that is it.... I will not waste money on crossovers.... Cheers, RickO