Harry Bass coming up for sale ?
privaterarecoincollector
Posts: 629 ✭✭✭✭✭
I know that the Harry Bass collection is on loan for 20 years to the ANA
http://hbrf.org/coin-collection/
https://www.money.org/money-museum/Harry-W-Bass-Gallery
which startet in 1999 and ends in 2019.
Does anybody have an idea or opinion if it would be sold starting in 2019 / 2020 when the loan ends ?
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Comments
It's an intriguing question, personally I would like to see the "Core Collection" stay put at the ANA just because I like viewing it when I go to Summer Seminar. That being said, I can't speak for if the loan will be extended. If it's not, that auction(s) would be quite the spectacle.
Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage
I am an ANA member, but the last thing I want to see is further time at the ANA for the Bass Core Collection. Remember their Collection Mgr., Wyatt Yeager? How many coins were stolen, how many were not recovered? It would be better to see the Core Collection sold or loaned to a different organization. 20 years at the ANA is long enough.
I agree with this completely. The ANA is not trustworthy.
At the same time I don't want to see it go to the Smithsonian. They have too much already, and most collectors can never get access to it.
At times over the last six years or so, Stack's-Bowers has auctioned numismatic material from the collection of the Harry Bass Foundation, including some fascinating items. In August 2014, Heritage auctioned thirty patterns from this collection:
http://www.coinweek.com/coin-clubs/american-numismatic-association/historic-harry-bass-collection-patterns-offered-heritage-auctions-ana-worlds-fair-money/
I do not think that PRC should be too hopeful that coins in this collection could serve as upgrades to coins in his type set. While this is theoretically possible, the chances of this being true are not overwhelming. I attended at least two of the four Bass sales by Bowers & Merena, 1999-2000. While there were some fabulous coins, there were quite a few unappealing coins, too. There were a noteworthy number of doctored coins.
Insightful10@gmail.com
I believe coin collections should be sold.
The coins themselves would remain better preserved and appreciated.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
I agree with Analyst that there might not be many mint state coins that could upgrade, but there are a few amazing -once in a lifetime- proof coins in there: 1821 Half Eagle in Gem Proof, 1829 Half Eagle Large in Gem Proof, 1829 Half Eagle Small in Gem Proof, 1804 Eagle in Proof... I would certainly hope I will have some money at the time this collection comes up for sale, if ever.
Coins don't belong in museums, they belong in collections where they can be appreciated from owner to owner.
To say the ANA is not trustworthy is a bit harsh. They certainly have had periods where the staff was flawed but I think they are getting on track. With that said, I don't want these going to the Smithsonian either for the reason you stated. I would much prefer the core collection were sold. I can state with confidence that I would be a bidder on at least one certain lot.
Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia
Findley Ridge Collection
About Findley Ridge
I kind of have to agree with that! Coins in museums end up being:
1) Hard to view and appreciate by anyone, (coins are by nature too dang small)
2) Uninteresting to NON-collectors anyway, so they get stuck into a corner, or in storage
3) Redundant with other museums, when the coins are "not unique"
4) If the coins ARE "unique", then they remove interesting specimens from circulation within the hobby
A twenty year, (or 10 year, or whatever), loan of a special collection to a museum before being split up makes perfect sense to fuel those museums that should exist, and make special coins available for researchers. (The ANA being a prime example of that).
But if we were to ALL donate our collections to one museum or university of varying prominence depending on our collections, (mine could go to the "South Park Middle School for the totally inept"), then it pretty much sucks the life out of the hobby, one generation at a time.
Coin collecting and numismatics is more of an individual pursuit than a public display of history.
There is a saying, "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." The ANA has gone way beyound twice when it comes to scandals.
So far as the Smithsonian is concerned, collectors should have access to a wide range of what they have via pictures. Collectors should be able to use those pictures for free, right off the Internet, especially when you are using them for educational purposes. I have accessed some of the ANA pictures but down loading them and using them for a presentation or an exhibit is dicey. Some pictures work; others download badly on purpose.
The Smithsonian should be dedicated to education, not games. Part of what they got came to them when the Lilly family got a big tax break for donating their collection. That was like using public funds to buy the coins. The images of those coins should be in the public domain.
Maybe Brent Pogue will buy it!!!
Tommy:
291Fith:
Nic:
So do I, coins and paintings are entirely different kinds of things. Many people can view a painting at the same time, and experts can walk up to a hanging painting and appreciate the finer points. Displaying coins is a whole different matter. To be understood, coins have to be tilted under a lamp and viewed with a glass in a room with minimal overhead light.
Nic: in private collections
During the first half of the 20th century, many coins in both the Smithsonian and the ANS collections were harmed by curators or others who had access.
Also, auctions of great collections are part of the culture of coin collecting:
The Marvelous Pogue Family Coin Collection, Part 22: Epic Sales in the Same League
I hate to disagree with some of you, but the only chance many of us have to ever see some of the coins in this collection is at a museum or at the ANA (where I once viewed them). If they go at auction, they will end up in the hands of a few millionaires never to be seen again by most of the numismatic community...except in auction catalogs perhaps. Just my take.
Louis Armstrong
Here's the thing. Well-intentioned collectors give stuff to museums. The problem is, you can't just throw it over the wall and expect the museum to do anything with it. Do not give stuff to museums unless you also give them funds to properly curate, share, and exhibit whatever you gave them. The National Numismatic Collection has over a million objects in their cabinets. The amount of money required to properly catalog, exhibit and administer such a collection is considerable. The folks working there do the best they can, but it is a very small staff. Because of generous donations from the numismatic community they have a nice display of the mega-rarities, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what's in the trays.
I too have seen the Bass collection at the ANA, and it is fairly well presented, much better than the covey hole at the Smithsonian which shows one side of a selected group of great rarities. There was also an attractive, reasonably priced book on the Harry Bass Collection that was for sale. The ANA has done a decent job of making the coins available for examination while keeping them safe.
You overrate the availability of coins to which collectors have access in museums. Most of the time the coins are locked up, not on display and only available for examination to those who have the right connections.
Years ago I wanted to see the gold Comitia Americana medal that was awarded to George Washington that is held by the Boston Public Library. I have that medal in copper which was made from the same die pair. I wanted to compare the die state. The answer was "nothing doing." It might sound cynical, but I would have had a better chance of seeing it if I had been 12 years old instead of in my 50s.
Finally a number of museums have sold collections as fund raisers after they have held them for a while. The coins don't stay in the public domain.
Museum curators also have a bad habit of cleaning coins badly. Proof of this is seen with the current state of one of the 1804 Dollars and the unique 1849 $20 gold that is in the Smithsonian.
I am all for private ownership of coins, especially when they are sold through an outlet like Heritage which maintains a research facility with pictures of the coins they have sold at auction. Collectors should really appreciate what a great resource that is. It is far better than any museum that keeps its treasures locked up with no photos available.
I tend to think that certain coins belong in certain museums, but that many coins held by museums would be best sold.
As for the Bass Foundation, I would be surprised if many more coins are not sold to fund other philanthropic activities.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Museum coins (i.e. Smithsonian and others) are worse than captive animals in zoo's. Most of the time, these coins are kept in the dark and not accessible to the public. Often, they are mishandled, or worse, cleaned - due to the lack of knowledge regarding coins by the museum personnel. I agree with BillJones and others, get them out in the public, auction records and other forms of provenance will provide history and allow for the enjoyment of the specimens by those who appreciate them. Cheers, RickO
very interesting.
I have seen the US coins in the British Museum in London, first it was very easy to see them, I just called and made an appointment for the week after.
But the two top coins there, a said to be Gem 1795 Eagle and a Gem 1794 Dollar were both cleaned and I graded them sadly no grade. I wonder if the coins were given like this to the Museum (which was in 1817 I believe my Madame Banks) or if the Museum did this to the coins. I also wonder what PCGS would do with them ? How do you grade a hairlines and otherwise MS 66 1794 flowing hair dollar ? MS 62 ?
so it seems that other people agree with me that they might get sold. I would not be surprised to see the BASS sales starting in 2020.
Thanks to those of you who educated me on how museums handle and display coins. I didn't know all that and it makes good sense (their not displaying much of what they have and the tendency to clean the coins they do display). I guess I was speaking primarily of the enjoyment I had viewing the Bass coins at the ANA and viewing coins as a high school kid at the Smithsonian when I didn't know a cleaned coin from a bar of soap!
Louis Armstrong
This thread has been eye opening
no one remembers 2 years ago at CSNS when heritage sold the bass patterns?
the rest will surely follow. its not the same ana that harry knew. so why should the family keep the coins there?
I already said above in this thread, in a post on 04/28:
At times over the last six years or so, Stack's-Bowers has auctioned numismatic material from the collection of the Harry Bass Foundation, including some fascinating items. In August 2014, Heritage auctioned thirty patterns from this collection:
http://www.coinweek.com/coin-clubs/american-numismatic-association/historic-harry-bass-collection-patterns-offered-heritage-auctions-ana-worlds-fair-money/
Also, as I said, this Heritage sale was of just thirty patterns, not all of them. There still are prize patterns in the collection of the Harry Bass Foundation.
Ricko:
Bil Jones:
I asaid above, During the first half of the 20th century, many coins in both the Smithsonian and the ANS collections were harmed by curators or others who had access.
Does anyone know of coins that were harmed while housed in other museums?
In any event, the harm is often irreparable. On average, not always, collectors take far greater care of rarities than museum personnel.
Rollerman:
A-Coins sold at auction often reappear, usually within a dozen years, sometimes within a dozen months.
B-There are exhibits at major conventions. TDN put his set of bust dollars on display at FUN.
In 2012, there was a showdown of the two best PCGS registry sets of Walkers at the summer ANA and fall Long Beach events.
C-View Auction Lots! Stack's-Bowers brought Pogue coins to innumerable major conventions and conducted lot viewing sessions, with proper lighting, in California AND New York.
I'd love to have a coin from the Harry Bass collection, and not only because his name sounds just a little bit naughty.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry