How much metal can a silver coin lose and still be considered problem free?

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Coinstartled
Coinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

I recall it being stated that a worn smooth coin has a loss of about 7% of metal. An AG or poor is probably what 3 or 4%? Absence of metal is not a criteria for a non grade, only the consistency of the wear. Cleaning and scratching bad, worn out good......or about good.

*I may have overstated the percentages of metal loss and would appreciate the opinions of the forum intelligentsia.

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  • crazyhounddog
    crazyhounddog Posts: 14,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @topstuf said:
    Just did it.

    It's 6.768% loss.

    Okay folks. It must be good Will Hunting right here on the forum. Very well done! :)

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • Coinstartled
    Coinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    ^ Post of the day....I'll shut up now!
    ^

  • Darin
    Darin Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @topstuf said:
    Just did it.

    It's 6.768% loss.

    Are you sure you should be a posting a love note from Einstein to his mistress?

  • VanHalen
    VanHalen Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Could easily lose 10% of it's weight and still be a gradeable PO1.

    Your 7% figure varies widely between denominations/series and would be closer to a minimum weight lose for a "slick" than a maximum.

  • WillieBoyd2
    WillieBoyd2 Posts: 5,411 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 22, 2024 8:09PM
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    Morgan silver dollars are supposed to weigh around 26.73 gm.

    My grandmother lived near Reno and pulled these worn specimens out of circulation in the 1960's along with many others.
    They no doubt were used at the casinos there.
    I graded them using the Redbook grades.

    image
    United States Dollar 1896-O Very Fine 26.20 gm
    98% of normal

    image
    United States Dollar 1897-O Fine 25.94 gm
    97% of normal

    :)

    https://www.brianrxm.com
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  • UnclePennyBags
    UnclePennyBags Posts: 327 ✭✭✭
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    I've had po01 or close barber and standing liberty quarters that weighed closer to 5 grams than they did to 6.25

    Successful trades.... MichaelDixon,

  • Coinstartled
    Coinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2017 8:21PM
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    @VanHalen said:
    Could easily lose 10% of it's weight and still be a gradeable PO1.

    Your 7% figure varies widely between denominations/series and would be closer to a minimum weight lose for a "slick" than a maximum.

    @UnclePennyBags said:
    I've had po01 or close barber and standing liberty quarters that weighed closer to 5 grams than they did to 6.25

    So a twenty percent decline. Suppose it makes sense as the fractional coins would have more relief vs size that the larger dollar would.

    WillieBoyd....thank you for the numbers on the Morgans.

  • UnclePennyBags
    UnclePennyBags Posts: 327 ✭✭✭
    edited April 27, 2017 9:37PM
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    Good info here http://about.ag/silverbags.htm on $1000 face bags average loss.... I used to try mostly for halves as they seemed to lose the lease weight without the dollar coin premium for junk 90%.... sorry got really far off the problem free part

    Successful trades.... MichaelDixon,

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    For my personal standards, metal loss is a feature that affects my evaluation likely far more than it does TPG's. Once a coin goes below XF45, I lose interest - rapidly as the grade decreases. While I am not a grade chaser, I use that as a standard (albeit we know there is fluidity in grades). I like my coins to have well defined features and clean surfaces. Cheers, RickO

  • RogerB
    RogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The US Mint did several sampling studies on gold coins during the 19th century. maybe I can find something that is small enough to post.

  • BillJones
    BillJones Posts: 35,942 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @topstuf said:
    Just did it.

    It's 6.768% loss.

    I got a headache just looking at that. :s Math courses that featured formulas like that drove me crazy in college.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • Jimnight
    Jimnight Posts: 10,846 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Very scientific thread, I like it.

  • Coinsponge
    Coinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭
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    What if it is moving at the speed of light? I guess it is all relative.

    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
  • mr1931S
    mr1931S Posts: 7,314 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2017 11:42AM
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    _How much metal can a silver coin lose and still be considered problem free?
    _
    A very small (tiny) amount of metal is actually lost by a circulating coin. The metal on a coin is mostly displaced from higher to lower areas through wear by circulating for a long time. I proved this to myself by conducting careful weight experiments with pennies a few years ago. Some of the extremely well-worn pennies that I weighed actually weighed more than new ones!

    I never have considered simple (without damage) heavy circulation wear on a coin a problem.

    "Two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe; and I'm not sure about the universe."
    -Albert Einstein-

    Mistakes are natural. But repeated mistakes without reflection are something else. That may be the “stupidity” he was referring to. In research, he admitted uncertainty openly. “If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?” This shows humility. Even a Nobel laureate accepted doubt. That humility makes the quote less cynical and more observational.

  • Kkathyl
    Kkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @CoinsAndMoreCoins that is so true , or is it , not sure anymore

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • Testoon2
    Testoon2 Posts: 60 ✭
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    I know it's not silver, but my avatar, one of the most worn Buffaloes I've seen, has lost 8.2% of its weight (4.59 g).

  • Coinstartled
    Coinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2017 1:48PM
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    @mr1874 said:
    _How much metal can a silver coin lose and still be considered problem free?
    _
    A very small (tiny) amount of metal is actually lost by a circulating coin. The metal on a coin is mostly displaced from higher to lower areas through wear by circulating for a long time. I proved this to myself by conducting careful weight experiments with pennies a few years ago. Some of the extremely well-worn pennies that I weighed actually weighed more than new ones!

    I never have considered simple (without damage) heavy circulation wear on a coin a problem.

    Interesting perspective. Perhaps copper wears differently than silver in that regard.

  • illini420
    illini420 Posts: 11,660 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Circulated Barbers can lose quite a bit, but not as much at it looks. You can usually fit $7 or $8 face value of Barber Dimes in a $5 dime tube as the worn dimes get pretty thin, but most likely the coins have still only lost less than 10% of their weight. The rims wear off first and that allows so many to stack.

    Here's a thread I did a few years ago where I weighed $50 face value of the different Barber denominations.

    Circulated Barber Coinage Weight Loss Report

    :+1:

    Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700

  • Coinstartled
    Coinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2017 1:52PM
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    Thank you Illini. Maybe 90% silver should be advertised as 81% silver!

    (I would put in the wink guy but they look too cheesy now.)

  • ChrisRx
    ChrisRx Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 28, 2017 8:12PM
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    @ricko said:
    For my personal standards, metal loss is a feature that affects my evaluation likely far more than it does TPG's. Once a coin goes below XF45, I lose interest - rapidly as the grade decreases. While I am not a grade chaser, I use that as a standard (albeit we know there is fluidity in grades). I like my coins to have well defined features and clean surfaces. Cheers, RickO

    Either you don't collect chain cents, or you are very wealthy ;)

    image
  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @ChrisRx.... I do have different standards for old copper... ;) Cheers, RickO

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