1911-D Quarter Eagles
earlycoins
Posts: 282 ✭✭✭
After spending decades collecting older coins, I've recently become interested in the Indian quarter and half eagles.
I'm aware that most of the quarter are generally bullion pieces, with high end examples oriented toward registry collections.
But one piece has me confused, and I'm hoping that those in the know here, might be able to illuminate things a bit.
There's a pretty 1911-D in a forthcoming Heritage auction, which aside from a small planchet flaw looks like a nice example. Question is this. Why are they bringing the dollars they do?
These are not rare pieces.
In MS 64, there is a combined pop of well over 700.
In 65, over a hundred, but with only eight CAC'd, and those bring in the low 30s into the 40s.
The 64 examples, with 79 CACs, are the in high teens to mid-twenties.
As an example, the piece coming to auction, was last seen in a Stacks sale, where it was passed, with a reserve of 22k.
Is the 11-D boiler room fodder, and being pushed by those always knowledgable phone sales folks, with prices being pushed to a higher than normal point, or is there something else going on here?
I understand that it's the potential stopper in the series, but there's got to be something else in the wind.
Can anyone advise?
EC
Comments
I assume because of demand. It's the scarcest coin by far in a short and popular series, the proverbial big fish in a small pond.
1909-S VDB cent not rare (thousands graded 64 and up)
1916-D dime not rare (thousands graded at PCGS, though only hundreds in MS grades)
Same deal
Compare the estimated survival rates with the rest of the series. That may help.
I have often wondered the same thing about the entire series. The prices never seemed to make sense to me. I've heard it's a popular series, that it was heavily marketed, etc. One dealer has told me it is a complicated series to price. I love the look of the coins but the prices for high grade examples just don't seem to make sense to me.
First of all, they are not "bullion pieces". Show me where you can buy decent gold indians for near melt, and I will take them all. Because of the small number of coins needed to make a complete set (15), they are very collectible. Since the 1911-D is the rarest, it is the most expensive. I have 2 that I cherrypicked as normal 1911.
It's the only key date in the only US gold coin series that a middle class collector can hope to complete.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I may have used an incorrect term - bullion. What I meant was several thousand in 63-64. Still apparently collectible for type, at $600 or thereabouts with CAC.
Gotcha. I thought you meant they were just like a modern gold eagle or something, where their value was only based on gold price.
agree with above.
a very popular easy to complete set in gold, so it makes since that the one highlighted date would be high demand due to popularity. It has always been very high in relation to the other coins in the series, long before the pop reports came into existence, so it keeps its mystique still to this day
Agree. None of the dates are rare, and all are readily available. I compled an entire set in mostly MS-63/64 w/ all but two CAC'd in less than a year. The 11-D was the last. A nice AU55/CAC'd coin that I had a hard time paying $3700 for, because it's simply not a rare coin.
'dude
I remember selling a complete set, in a Capital Plastic holder, in XF in 1975 for $1500.
The 11-D $2.5 is one of the most over valued coins in the hobby and that alone turns me off to the series.
Latin American Collection
No wonder you don't like most of my toners! lol. Those are the main coins I collect
Thanks to all for the valued counsel!
Sorry, I just think some of the toners had some help
Latin American Collection
The senses may say 700 hundred in 64 but with the value of ms65 so high the temptation to send in to try to get a ms65 is strong and some wil did it over one over look for the higher grades.
Www.killermarbles.com
Www.suncitycoin.com
When a product is in demand, the price is high....I know that seems to over simplify the issue, but, when all is said and done, that is the answer. Cheers, RickO
Recently submitted one for a lady who doesn't know what it's worth and wants to know, so I said, "let's let the experts tell us". Will have true view photos, too.
Am thinking it's worth less than I thought , after reading this thread.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I've just spent several hours examining every image on line, most courtesy of our host, Coinfacts, and the auction histories.
What I'm seeing is VERY little duplication via re-holders. Going through over 100 images for MS 64 auctions, I'm finding only about a dozen that are the same coin.
From what I'm seeing, there really are quite few examples of these out in the wild. Of the 79 CACs, 14 seem to have come to auction.
Even if one presumes many multiple attempts to reach a 65 holder, without turning in labels, one would still be seeing 400-500 of these available. Also, from what I'm seeing, many are over-graded.
The need for registry completion, and attempted upgrades aside, is there any rational perspective from which these are anything more than an $7-10,00 coin in 64, and $15-18 in 65?
I'm doing this research before diving into a series that looks appealing, but am not seeing the value.
While it may be an unfair comparison, and I'm certain others can come up with some more appropriate, if one compares to an 1885-S half eagle, with not dissimilar pop numbers, a 66 is $11,500, 65 - $2,450 and 64, of which there are 430 P examples, $820.
When you are planning to purchase a mintmarked example of Indian gold, look for a strong, clear D, S or O. There are also some nice varieties of repunched and overpunched mintmarks. Coins with very strong clashing on the Indian's throat are also known and sell for no more than ordinary, boring pieces.
As always, Roger, your knowledge is appreciated.
Only ANACS will acknowledge the clashing on the holder, and I have found I can usually sell those for a small premium, whether or not it is really worth it.
Good to know. The quandary is getting the die varieties recognized by PCGS and NGC, and listed in a respected published reference.
I tried with NGC a few years ago, and then tried a few at ANACS. After they put them on the label, I sold them on ebay for a decent (but fairly small) premium. So I have been saving up a few for when they have a grading promo. I currently have about 10 there now
I looked into collecting collecting Indian $2.5 and $5s but couldn't figure out prices to relative value so i passed on putting together these sets. I do have some really nice examples as I love the look of these coins. So i started my Large size Capped Bust quarter set- Now those are tough to locate and the prices are closer to what the relative value should be. Having said that, I might go on to put a set of these beautiful coins together.
Yup, Along with the 1909-S VDB and 1907 HR Saint.
When someone claims a key date coin in a popularly collected series is overvalued, they are wrong---coin values are dictated by the marketplace and not by any single collector. It may be overvalued to you in which case don't buy it. It always comes down to supply and demand and the market for key date coins in popular series is quite efficient.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If stocks can be over valued in a much more efficient and liquid market coins will have greater levels of over or under valuation due to liquidity and depth of market.
Were early commems overvalued 20 years ago? The series was promoted and manipulated which led it to being overvalued relative to its fundamental rarity. The Indian series are also promoted and supported, albeit not to the same levels but I would strongly bet that future price movements in this series and specifically in the faux rarity 11-D will be more likely down than up.
Latin American Collection
IMO, All MS 11-D 2.5 Ind. is worth 30% less than monthly CDN bid.