Does anyone else think there's going to be a public outrage when all the new media is hyping this as a $100 coin, but will actually cost around $1600 when it goes on sale? (Collectors will realize $100 is a par value, but Joe Public is used to having their money at face value...)
I don't think there will be public outrage, but I'm sure a lot of people who hear about this(who aren't already collectors) will be upset. The news seems to be slightly vague on the fact that it is actually going to be so expensive and why. I think that silver sales will likely be stronger to non collectors.
Although it wouldn't surprise me if the media later spins this as some sort of bait and switch and puts some poor soul who couldn't afford to buy one on camera.
severe Political Hangover seems to have set in and made the "media" the current popular whipping boy. perhaps any angst should be directed towards the US Mint Public Relations Department who no doubt have notified all the major News Outlets, probably providing them with a stock story.
Man are they pumping the PR machine hard on these. So many MSM TV and print reports and I even heard it on 2 different radio shows. The thing is though, each one of them made it sound like it's a regular coin to be spent and exchanged as $100. They just said "the new $100 gold coin" so 99% of listeners would think it's just a high denomination coin for circulation made of gold. They made no mention of it being a high priced collectible coin. Just "the new $100 gold coin features a black woman"
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@MilesWaits said:
Let the Hysteria begin!
Any "accurate" guesses on mintage?
Mintage or sales? I guess net sales of 36,789.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@keets said:
severe Political Hangover seems to have set in and made the "media" the current popular whipping boy. perhaps any angst should be directed towards the US Mint Public Relations Department who no doubt have notified all the major News Outlets, probably providing them with a stock story.
in short, don't blame the messenger.
So I see, now we should assume that the mint didn't mention in it's press release that it was going to be a 1oz gold coin. (With a cost closer to $1500 than $100)So if the mint gave a "stock" story, I suppose we shouldn't have expected the news to do a bit of research on their own to follow up. I think you may be the one taking this a bit to personally.
@CaptHenway said:
By sheer coincidence, a major collection of Standard Silver patterns, which are known for their large stars on Miss Liberty, is coming up for auction:
I don't see the problem with this coin. It's fine. It's about time black people be better represented on money. Of all the federal reserve notes and coins that circulate today, 99+% depict white people. Ok. Native americans are depicted on some dollar coins. But this coin isn't even going to be in circulation! Anyone who spends it for its face value would be making a bad financial decision! It's about time a person of color and a female (or both) are depicted on a federal reserve note denomination that is commonly circulated or a commonly circulated coin denomination (which doesn't include $1). Black people have had a long history in our country that hasn't always been so kind to them. Black people are a big part of our country and they don't even have representation on our money! A commemorative quarter design could depict MLK or something...or, change dimes to a famous black person like Rosa Parks? That way you check 2 boxes-female and minority.
Positive BST transactions with Timbuk3, coindeuce, charlottedude.
A google of silver 2017 Liberty shows this from Mintage World -
" -A four-piece American Liberty silver medal set with a different finish and struck at a different production facility each would be released in the second half of 2017. A Reverse Proof set from the San Francisco Mint is also planned for 2018.
This was discussed on 13th October in Philadelphia during the Mint’s numismatic forum which aims at promoting the numismatic hobby and expanding the collector base. "
@Tomthemailcarrier said:
I'm in for 1 gold and 5 silver. My wife really likes the coin.
My wife really likes it also. She usually has no opinion on coins.
Ditto. Girlfriend likes it and I believe it helps that she herself has some strong non-Anglo attractive ethnicity.
It's funny, I showed it to my wife this morning and the first thing she said was the eagle looks like it's weak and cowering, or it's back was broken. Not soaring.
It's funny, I showed it to my wife this morning and the first thing she said was the eagle looks like it's weak and cowering, or it's back was broken. Not soaring.
Did your wife pronounce it with the punctuation error you typed? "It looks like it is back was broken." You tell 'em, honey! (Puts on "make america great again" hat)
@Tomthemailcarrier said:
I'm in for 1 gold and 5 silver. My wife really likes the coin.
My wife really likes it also. She usually has no opinion on coins.
Ditto. Girlfriend likes it and I believe it helps that she herself has some strong non-Anglo attractive ethnicity.
It's funny, I showed it to my wife this morning and the first thing she said was the eagle looks like it's weak and cowering, or it's back was broken. Not soaring.
Did your wife pronounce it with the punctuation error you typed? "It looks like it is back was broken." You tell 'em, honey! (Puts on "make america great again" hat)
No, usually when I speak to my wife we don't sound out the punctuation. Maybe that's just for you intellectual progressive types to show how smart you are. I'm sorry if I do not live up to your educational standards. I suppose that to you, any negative critique of this coin makes the person a hillbilly racist Trump deplorable. Although trying to make fun of my wife who is not white by the way(not that it should matter) is something that you should do in person if you had any cojones.
Yes! Love the design. And that one graded MS70. So the premium doesn't surprise me.
And I think some of that premium might be supported by demand for the **raw ** coin -- from folks hoping for the rare Proof-like version. Those have crazy premiums.
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@Tomthemailcarrier said:
I'm in for 1 gold and 5 silver. My wife really likes the coin.
My wife really likes it also. She usually has no opinion on coins.
Ditto. Girlfriend likes it and I believe it helps that she herself has some strong non-Anglo attractive ethnicity.
It's funny, I showed it to my wife this morning and the first thing she said was the eagle looks like it's weak and cowering, or it's back was broken. Not soaring.
Did your wife pronounce it with the punctuation error you typed? "It looks like it is back was broken." You tell 'em, honey! (Puts on "make america great again" hat)
No, usually when I speak to my wife we don't sound out the punctuation. Maybe that's just for you intellectual progressive types to show how smart you are. I'm sorry if I do not live up to your educational standards. I suppose that to you, any negative critique of this coin makes the person a hillbilly racist Trump deplorable. Although trying to make fun of my wife who is not white by the way(not that it should matter) is something that you should do in person if you had any cojones.
Whoa slow down a little, it was only a grammar correction.
Back to the subject, the coin is average at best. IMHO I have always like the designs that picture more then just the headshot. I would have liked it better had it been her entire body. BTW the stars distract me too.
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@Cakes said:
Back to the subject, the coin is average at best. IMHO I have always like the designs that picture more then just the headshot. I would have liked it better had it been her entire body. BTW the stars distract me too.
They made it simple for a reason. This is a 21st century update of the first decades of coinage. 1792 to 2017. Both the year and design updated. But there's something else. They updated Lady Liberty to an A-A. So that has a 21st century update, too.
I totally missed the design nod to 1792. I get it now.
And there's that one star at the top that is awkwardly placed. Perhaps a bit smaller stars would look good. Something else again? The artwork indicates a high cheekbone. This is a high relief coin? They need to tweak the cheek. I think it'd look better that way.
As stated earlier I'm not a fan of the design in general but I personally don't get the particular hate for the eagle on the reverse. I actually like the detail and think it's the coin's best feature. Unlike the eagle on the AGE reverse. Still scratching my head over how that AGE reverse design got picked.
I might buy this Sally Hemings First Spouse Commemorative coin. It'll be overpriced by the mint, unpopular with most coin collectors, and possibly a very low population coin with good investment potential.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@Cakes said:
Back to the subject, the coin is average at best. IMHO I have always like the designs that picture more then just the headshot. I would have liked it better had it been her entire body. BTW the stars distract me too.
They made it simple for a reason. This is a 21st century update of the first decades of coinage. 1792 to 2017. Both the year and design updated. But there's something else. They updated Lady Liberty to an A-A. So that has a 21st century update, too.
I totally missed the design nod to 1792. I get it now.
And there's that one star at the top that is awkwardly placed. Perhaps a bit smaller stars would look good. Something else again? The artwork indicates a high cheekbone. This is a high relief coin? They need to tweak the cheek. I think it'd look better that way.
MM, thanks for pointing out the star at the top, it now bothers and distracts me......lol
I didn't buy one, I am still holding out hope I can buy a low quality 2009 UHR somewhat close to spot.
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us mint marketing needs a blurb with drawings or photos in the CoA describing what they are celebrating.
225 years ago the mint began coining. Soon after, there were silver dollars made (photo). Today, the same simple concept used then has been updated with a modern celebration of Lady Liberty 225 years on. (and it only took us 225 years to make hair look like hair. :-)
The Mint has gotten wise to the flipper mentality.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@PerryHall said:
I might buy this Sally Hemings First Spouse Commemorative coin. It'll be overpriced by the mint, unpopular with most coin collectors, and possibly a very low population coin with good investment potential.
I might agree, but just can't get past that $440 markup over spot. The roll of ASE's I recently bought was less than the markup.
I bought in (in 2015) with the first American Liberty (with its 50K mintage, gamble paid off, it came back MS70 ), but with twice the mintage I don't see an upside to this coin.
I'll revisit the idea of investment potential in 10 months just before the coin goes off-sale.
@PerryHall said:
I might buy this Sally Hemings First Spouse Commemorative coin. It'll be overpriced by the mint, unpopular with most coin collectors, and possibly a very low population coin with good investment potential.
I might agree, but just can't get past that $440 markup over spot. The roll of ASE's I recently bought was less than the markup.
I bought in (in 2015) with the first American Liberty (with its 50K mintage, gamble paid off, it came back MS70 ), but with twice the mintage I don't see an upside to this coin.
I'll revisit the idea of investment potential in 10 months just before the coin goes off-sale.
I don't think the authorized mintage matters. It always comes down to the number actually sold. Actually the ridiculously high mintage of 100,000 will discourage many buyers (both flippers and collector investors) from buying this issue.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@dtkk49a said:
This is one of the best designed coins the mint has put out in a while and I predict it will sell out fairly quickly.
Really? Do you really think the mint will quickly sell 100,000 of these coins at close to $1,700 each?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Such a high mintage for such a pricey issue represents the Mint's perennial golden-goose-killing compulsion where it comes to collectors.
I suppose it's human nature to do that, given the notoriety of the Golden-Goose fable. It takes wisdom and savvy to resist the temptation to drain the people who from time to time support and sustain you, virtues that are in short supply.
It was on display in Baltimore today. I'll try to remember to post some pics tomorrow or Sat. Unfortunately, the way that the display was set up only the obverse was really visible. Bummer as I wanted to see the reverse as well. The book and the OGP look very nice.
@PerryHall said:
I might buy this Sally Hemings First Spouse Commemorative coin. It'll be overpriced by the mint, unpopular with most coin collectors, and possibly a very low population coin with good investment potential.
I might agree, but just can't get past that $440 markup over spot. The roll of ASE's I recently bought was less than the markup.
I bought in (in 2015) with the first American Liberty (with its 50K mintage, gamble paid off, it came back MS70 ), but with twice the mintage I don't see an upside to this coin.
I'll revisit the idea of investment potential in 10 months just before the coin goes off-sale.
I don't think the authorized mintage matters. It always comes down to the number actually sold. Actually the ridiculously high mintage of 100,000 will discourage many buyers (both flippers and collector investors) from buying this issue.
Authorized mintage does matter, and your second point nailed it. The mint sucked a lot of the air out of the SLQ, WLH, North American C&C and the Reagan C&C sets by setting bizarrely high mintages, though this coin has much less going for it that just a high mintage.
I don't think this coin will be a failure, but I also think it's not going to live up to it's hype. The 2015 sold 37K before they halted sales on day one. We'll see what this one does.
Comments
I dont think anyone is criticizing subject matter but the way they designed it
perhaps you should re-read the replies with the blinders off.
I don't think there will be public outrage, but I'm sure a lot of people who hear about this(who aren't already collectors) will be upset. The news seems to be slightly vague on the fact that it is actually going to be so expensive and why. I think that silver sales will likely be stronger to non collectors.
Although it wouldn't surprise me if the media later spins this as some sort of bait and switch and puts some poor soul who couldn't afford to buy one on camera.
My Ebay Store
severe Political Hangover seems to have set in and made the "media" the current popular whipping boy. perhaps any angst should be directed towards the US Mint Public Relations Department who no doubt have notified all the major News Outlets, probably providing them with a stock story.
in short, don't blame the messenger.
Man are they pumping the PR machine hard on these. So many MSM TV and print reports and I even heard it on 2 different radio shows. The thing is though, each one of them made it sound like it's a regular coin to be spent and exchanged as $100. They just said "the new $100 gold coin" so 99% of listeners would think it's just a high denomination coin for circulation made of gold. They made no mention of it being a high priced collectible coin. Just "the new $100 gold coin features a black woman"
By sheer coincidence, a major collection of Standard Silver patterns, which are known for their large stars on Miss Liberty, is coming up for auction:
http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2017/01/simpson-standard-silver-patterns-lead-this-late-january-sale.html
Mintage or sales? I guess net sales of 36,789.
I'm in for 1 gold and 5 silver. My wife really likes the coin.
So I see, now we should assume that the mint didn't mention in it's press release that it was going to be a 1oz gold coin. (With a cost closer to $1500 than $100)So if the mint gave a "stock" story, I suppose we shouldn't have expected the news to do a bit of research on their own to follow up. I think you may be the one taking this a bit to personally.
My Ebay Store
This is what I meant in my earlier post. The stars seem to follow the curve of Liberty's cap and don't make the size appear so awkward.
My Ebay Store
My wife really likes it also. She usually has no opinion on coins.
Ditto. Girlfriend likes it and I believe it helps that she herself has some strong non-Anglo attractive ethnicity.
I don't see the problem with this coin. It's fine. It's about time black people be better represented on money. Of all the federal reserve notes and coins that circulate today, 99+% depict white people. Ok. Native americans are depicted on some dollar coins. But this coin isn't even going to be in circulation! Anyone who spends it for its face value would be making a bad financial decision! It's about time a person of color and a female (or both) are depicted on a federal reserve note denomination that is commonly circulated or a commonly circulated coin denomination (which doesn't include $1). Black people have had a long history in our country that hasn't always been so kind to them. Black people are a big part of our country and they don't even have representation on our money! A commemorative quarter design could depict MLK or something...or, change dimes to a famous black person like Rosa Parks? That way you check 2 boxes-female and minority.
A google of silver 2017 Liberty shows this from Mintage World -
" -A four-piece American Liberty silver medal set with a different finish and struck at a different production facility each would be released in the second half of 2017. A Reverse Proof set from the San Francisco Mint is also planned for 2018.
This was discussed on 13th October in Philadelphia during the Mint’s numismatic forum which aims at promoting the numismatic hobby and expanding the collector base. "
https://www.mintageworld.com/media/detail/2169-2017-american-liberty-silver-medals/
Why would there be objections to this design?
It's funny, I showed it to my wife this morning and the first thing she said was the eagle looks like it's weak and cowering, or it's back was broken. Not soaring.
My Ebay Store
"It's or Its" is the #1 grammar mistake.
Just last month, my college-educated (UCLA & NYU) 60-year-old sister said, "It's ALWAYS has an apostrophe."
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
No, usually when I speak to my wife we don't sound out the punctuation. Maybe that's just for you intellectual progressive types to show how smart you are. I'm sorry if I do not live up to your educational standards. I suppose that to you, any negative critique of this coin makes the person a hillbilly racist Trump deplorable. Although trying to make fun of my wife who is not white by the way(not that it should matter) is something that you should do in person if you had any cojones.
My Ebay Store
Guess?
Considering the sell through numbers on the first HR Liberty, my guess is they will keep the same numbers.
This is the first I've seen of this, I actually like it!
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No, I was responding to the Peace dollar comment that I quoted.
Recall this one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2015-W-100-Gold-Liberty-Coin-NGC-MS-70-1-Ounce-9999-Gold-High-Relief-/192047620848?hash=item2cb6ee22f0:g:tEgAAOSw4GVYSIAe&nma=true&si=H%2B3%2FJc%2F6Ym2e3diizPRiTBtzaN8%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Yes! Love the design. And that one graded MS70. So the premium doesn't surprise me.
And I think some of that premium might be supported by demand for the **raw ** coin -- from folks hoping for the rare Proof-like version. Those have crazy premiums.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
Whoa slow down a little, it was only a grammar correction.
Back to the subject, the coin is average at best. IMHO I have always like the designs that picture more then just the headshot. I would have liked it better had it been her entire body. BTW the stars distract me too.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I think I will add one, why not? Its controversial, it's new design with interesting elements. Its an ounce of gold.
I like that one better, if this one had her whole body in the shot I would have been better.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
They made it simple for a reason. This is a 21st century update of the first decades of coinage. 1792 to 2017. Both the year and design updated. But there's something else. They updated Lady Liberty to an A-A. So that has a 21st century update, too.
I totally missed the design nod to 1792. I get it now.
And there's that one star at the top that is awkwardly placed. Perhaps a bit smaller stars would look good. Something else again? The artwork indicates a high cheekbone. This is a high relief coin? They need to tweak the cheek. I think it'd look better that way.
As stated earlier I'm not a fan of the design in general but I personally don't get the particular hate for the eagle on the reverse. I actually like the detail and think it's the coin's best feature. Unlike the eagle on the AGE reverse. Still scratching my head over how that AGE reverse design got picked.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
no HH limit. lol
DOA
Sweet, I will getting my posse together to buy en masse and corner this market.
No household limit,,,,,, what you need a posse for?
I might buy this Sally Hemings First Spouse Commemorative coin. It'll be overpriced by the mint, unpopular with most coin collectors, and possibly a very low population coin with good investment potential.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Funding purposes...I am poor.
MM, thanks for pointing out the star at the top, it now bothers and distracts me......lol
I didn't buy one, I am still holding out hope I can buy a low quality 2009 UHR somewhat close to spot.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Pretty sure, maybe, ya can Cakes when spot reaches current pricing.
us mint marketing needs a blurb with drawings or photos in the CoA describing what they are celebrating.
225 years ago the mint began coining. Soon after, there were silver dollars made (photo). Today, the same simple concept used then has been updated with a modern celebration of Lady Liberty 225 years on. (and it only took us 225 years to make hair look like hair. :-)
The Mint has gotten wise to the flipper mentality.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I might agree, but just can't get past that $440 markup over spot. The roll of ASE's I recently bought was less than the markup.
I bought in (in 2015) with the first American Liberty (with its 50K mintage, gamble paid off, it came back MS70
), but with twice the mintage I don't see an upside to this coin.
I'll revisit the idea of investment potential in 10 months just before the coin goes off-sale.
I don't think the authorized mintage matters. It always comes down to the number actually sold. Actually the ridiculously high mintage of 100,000 will discourage many buyers (both flippers and collector investors) from buying this issue.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
This is one of the best designed coins the mint has put out in a while and I predict it will sell out fairly quickly.
They call me "Pack the Ripper"
Really? Do you really think the mint will quickly sell 100,000 of these coins at close to $1,700 each?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Markup too high. Going to be like the 1/2 oz gold 2016 walking lib .... still available 6-12 months after initial release.
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
Hmmm, I'll take the under bet. Any takers?
Well, just Love coins, period.
Such a high mintage for such a pricey issue represents the Mint's perennial golden-goose-killing compulsion where it comes to collectors.
I suppose it's human nature to do that, given the notoriety of the Golden-Goose fable. It takes wisdom and savvy to resist the temptation to drain the people who from time to time support and sustain you, virtues that are in short supply.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
It was on display in Baltimore today. I'll try to remember to post some pics tomorrow or Sat. Unfortunately, the way that the display was set up only the obverse was really visible. Bummer as I wanted to see the reverse as well. The book and the OGP look very nice.
Authorized mintage does matter, and your second point nailed it. The mint sucked a lot of the air out of the SLQ, WLH, North American C&C and the Reagan C&C sets by setting bizarrely high mintages, though this coin has much less going for it that just a high mintage.
I don't think this coin will be a failure, but I also think it's not going to live up to it's hype. The 2015 sold 37K before they halted sales on day one. We'll see what this one does.
Today's price of gold is 1251.
If it get under 1250 = coin price 1640
over 1250 = coin price 1690.
Who says $1 has no value.
I'm over the whole design thing, big deal.
It's GOLDDDD Baby, and i can't resist.
Hope no buys and i end up with a super low mintage coin.
The Mint last stand was a while ago. Downhill from here. Politically correct from here on out.
Two times better than the gold spouse coins, right out of the chute. Yet the same value in the end as 2 spouses. That's my bet.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
that looks much, much, much better than any image I've seen to date.