Agree with most comments - stars distracting, tail feathers clipped, prefer the figure looking forward to the future rather than back.
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@tincup said:
"The 2017 American Liberty 225th Anniversary Gold Coin is the first in a series... including designs representing Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, and Indian-Americans among others>
I didn't know it's a SERIES.
Anyone know what's next?
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@tincup said:
"The 2017 American Liberty 225th Anniversary Gold Coin is the first in a series... including designs representing Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, and Indian-Americans among others>
@tincup said:
"The 2017 American Liberty 225th Anniversary Gold Coin is the first in a series... including designs representing Asian-Americans, Hispanic-Americans, and Indian-Americans among others>
I didn't know it's a SERIES.
Anyone know what's next?
Perhaps the next coin will have an Asian American Miss Liberty.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@telephoto1 said:
This coin will not be a success imo because it a) has an unimaginative design b) the design panders to a specific group and will be polarizing-you can already see signs of polarization on this very thread in fact- and c) it will undoubtedly be sold at a premium level taking gold investors and lower budget buyers out of the equation. This leaves only die hard collectors who must have one of every new issue, and once that relatively thin market is saturated the piece will be relegated to the numismatic dust bin along with so many other mint issues. Just my humble opinion
Bingo. Too polarizing to be wildly successful.....how's that Girl Scouts of America working out?
Add in that this is in gold and is going to be a BIG premium, however much that will be, and, to many, gold better have dropped down to <$200 per ounce.
I have plenty of black friends, who even have the money to buy this and not blink, that I doubt, from their comments, will buy it as they don't collect coins. Many are more pragmatic about value, and so would buy (and some have) gold by the ounce in bars or GAEs. They don't want to pay the premium. They wouldn't display it, as they don't display their wealth. It would be in a SDB or a home safe, tucked away.
So, I sincerely doubt it will be a new segment into numismatics. The cost is too high, and the design is too polarizing.
Flippers may win, eventually, if there aren't a ton of them purchased by speculators, but that will have to be seen. Definitely not a sure thing.
Many other designs could have been used (even of a black woman) that I think would be better than what was done/chosen. It's not a racial thing, for myself or many, even if it does smack too much of being too PC, but the image chosen definitely doesn't help many like it.
I can't wait to see if certain groups start commenting on this as I don't think it will please many.....
@Eagleguy said:
There was no gold American Liberty coin released last year so why make it an annual coin now, with a gap since the last one?
No there wasn't one last year, but there was a silver Liberty Medal which sold out in minutes. (IIRC)
No telling how these will do (market-wise) ...but I'm guessing they head north before south.
The more I look at it the more I like it! A well crafted portrait of a beautiful woman. The stars are not a bother to me in the least. Now the eagle on the reverse - just doesn't look right.
"Mint spokesman Michael White said the gold coins will be sold for about $1,500, a price based on the price of the medal. The Mint, White said, also will sell silver versions of the coin, which will cost about $40 to $50. Both can be purchased at the Mint's website, www.usmint.gov come April 6."
@TopographicOceans said:
I think the stars ruined what could have been a nice coin.
They are way out of proportion and instead of LIBERTY it comes out looking like LIRFRTY
Also the inside of her ear looks like a 5th star framed between the two points of the star above it.
Hopefully they'll do a silver version and the design might look better on a larger sized coin?
I'd buy one of each and It could be a good investment if everybody hates it and sales are very low.
I could sell it for a small fortune if somebody else decides they like it years down the road.
The Peace Dollar has obscure letters in LIBERTY as well and that issue is highly collectible. So I don't think that to be of a major concern. You make a good point there in regard to if it is rejected and low sales emerge, and you hold onto a few, a future profit could very well be in the offing. Others may jump on the bandwagon for this reason alone, despite it's opinionated design,to turn a profit.
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@younique said:
Anyone know the significance of 4 supersized, enormous stars? Not a fan.
To address your question. My first impression is to think that it was a way to display the various shades of skin of African Americans. From a lighter shade to a darker one. Just a guess here.
Umm, weird answer. Were you expecting 4 shades of gold as well?
@younique said:
Anyone know the significance of 4 supersized, enormous stars? Not a fan.
To address your question. My first impression is to think that it was a way to display the various shades of skin of African Americans. From a lighter shade to a darker one. Just a guess here.
Umm, weird answer. Were you expecting 4 shades of gold as well?
Read my correction above your post. I addressed my error.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
I knew where the star design was appropriated from, however, I still maintain, that on a coin, it detracts from the design by forcing focus on what really is an incidental part. The USA news article was a poorly written piece of junk. Cheers, RickO
As I look at that eagle in more detail, I think I see what doesn't look right... at least to me.
The eagle appears to be a midget (oops... maybe that's not PC). It is a short, squat, fat eagle; the wings and head are way too large for the size of the rest of the body. Look how the wings nearly cover all of the legs... then look at other depictions of eagles that show much more leg and longer length (or at least the flying eagle cent reverse that I looked at before making this conclusion).
I'm not an expert on eagles... nor of coinage design... but just... looks.... wrong. Non inspiring. This was the best we can do???
Flip it? No way. It ain't 2010. Way to go, Mint!, not a bu> @tincup said:
As I look at that eagle in more detail, I think I see what doesn't look right... at least to me.
The eagle appears to be a midget (oops... maybe that's not PC). It is a short, squat, fat eagle; the wings and head are way too large for the size of the rest of the body. Look how the wings nearly cover all of the legs... then look at other depictions of eagles that show much more leg and longer length (or at least the flying eagle cent reverse that I looked at before making this conclusion).
I'm not an expert on eagles... nor of coinage design... but just... looks.... wrong. Non inspiring. This was the best we can do???
I think the reverse is based on this Robert Bateman eagle painting. The depiction of the birds right wing and stubby appearance are very similar, the left wing extended to fill the field on the coin and the tail cut off because, well, the RB version isn't very spectacular.
I think the eagle looks funny not because so much of the downward wing position, but because it looks like it has one big turtle shell of a wing. The painting may have been the inspiration, but just like many copies, the details get lost in the translation. I personally think that the coin screen captures don't make the stars look as distracting as the drawings do on Liberty's headband. Had the stars been a bit smaller, or at the very least appeared to wrap around her head, I think the obverse design would be OK.
I do think though that the plan to be more diverse by doing a series of each ethnic background just opens the mint up to the PC police. Sooner or later there will be someone left out, or there will be whining and complaining about it. Maybe they can go to the carnival and use one of those photo booths that will blend two people and show what their children will look like, load it with pictures of all of the ethnic, racial and gender neutral people we have and only then will Liberty depict the American idea of diversity. But I'm guessing that's not really the goal of the people who chose these designs.
And for anyone who cares who the four initials are, the obverse artist is Justin Kunz, sculptor, Phebe Hemphill. Reverse, artist Chris Costello, sculptor Michael Gaudioso.
@grip said:
The whole thing is out of perspective , no detail separating the wings, Looks like layers of
armor. No wonder he's struggling to stay airborne.
That's exactly what I said about the eagle on the gold walking liberty. I guess the new style is to make the birds look like they're made of metal or have a suit of feather armor on
since some of the Founders and signers of the Declaration of Independence held slaves, I find the criticism of the subject matter on this Bullion Coin ironic. what could be more emblematic of FREEDOM than an Black, African Woman used as the symbol of Liberty??
@keets said:
since some of the Founders and signers of the Declaration of Independence held slaves, I find the criticism of the subject matter on this Bullion Coin ironic. what could be more emblematic of FREEDOM than an Black, African Woman used as the symbol of Liberty??
I dont think anyone is criticizing subject matter but the way they designed it
Other than the fact that the eagle's expression and body make it appear to be an Oven Stuffer roaster going off to its demise, the eagle strikes me odd in that the top of the bird (its back) seems to be tilted at an angle toward the viewer such that we can see more of it while the eagle's left wing (partially obscured from the viewer) seems to be in a position consistent with a more level observation point.
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The bun is fun but I have to agree with the comment from Millhouse73 on the CoinNews.net take on the coin:
"Millhouse73 January 12, 2017 at 9:14 pm
Of course if the mint is shooting for ugliness, they hit the nail right on the head, but I don’t think that was the case. Everyone has an opinion about everything and I’m sure there are coin collectors who think this coin is beautiful . . . .. . .. . . . .. (just threw up in my mouth a little), but the mint should really should get an idea of what numismatists really want on their coins. Yes, THIER coins, because after all, the coins the mint produces ultimately end up in our hands. Not this one though. They can keep it. Hope they don’t make to many just to melt them down for the next disaster."
@epcjimi1 said:
And for anyone who cares who the four initials are, the obverse artist is Justin Kunz, sculptor, Phebe Hemphill. Reverse, artist Chris Costello, sculptor Michael Gaudioso.
@MilesWaits said:
Let the Hysteria begin!
Any "accurate" guesses on mintage?
The 2015 American Liberty HR had a 50K mintage, HHL of 50, and took about 6 months to fully sell out. I think they would have sold out faster had they produced the 2016 American Liberty silver medals in the same year. (For reference, it was also $400 over spot, priced at $1540 at initial offering. Gold spot right now is $50 higher than Oct 2015.)
That said, it's also the elite 225th anniversary coin, and the mint is hyping the hell out of it. There may also be up to 5 (yes,, five) silver medals based on the design. (Then again, the mint has been vague about this.)
My best guess is 75K, perhaps upwards of 100K. If they want to go full speed stupid, (like the Reagan C&C and the Coin and Currency sets), they'll set mintage at 125K, to make sure anyone in the known universe who wants one will get one.
Does anyone else think there's going to be a public outrage when all the new media is hyping this as a $100 coin, but will actually cost around $1600 when it goes on sale? (Collectors will realize $100 is a par value, but Joe Public is used to having their money at face value...)
Edit to add: The mint has clarified that the American Liberty gold coin series will be issued every other year. So every odd numbered year will see a new AL gold coin...
Comments
1989 Congress Bicentennial half dollar:
--Severian the Lame
Make our coins GREAT again.
I think if a African-American had designed her headpiece this what it would look like? that is why the stars are the way they are just my opinion
Agree with most comments - stars distracting, tail feathers clipped, prefer the figure looking forward to the future rather than back.
I think I like it. The Mint has done much worse in the past, imo.
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Here is a video showing the production of the coins, and a view of an actual coin.
I didn't know it's a SERIES.
Anyone know what's next?
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Why would there be objections?
Cool video!
Kaitlyn Jenner?
Perhaps the next coin will have an Asian American Miss Liberty.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Enlarged screen captures:
--Severian the Lame
The more I see it, the more I would consider buying one.. at spot. At least it's different if nothing else
Bingo. Too polarizing to be wildly successful.....how's that Girl Scouts of America working out?
Add in that this is in gold and is going to be a BIG premium, however much that will be, and, to many, gold better have dropped down to <$200 per ounce.
I have plenty of black friends, who even have the money to buy this and not blink, that I doubt, from their comments, will buy it as they don't collect coins. Many are more pragmatic about value, and so would buy (and some have) gold by the ounce in bars or GAEs. They don't want to pay the premium. They wouldn't display it, as they don't display their wealth. It would be in a SDB or a home safe, tucked away.
So, I sincerely doubt it will be a new segment into numismatics. The cost is too high, and the design is too polarizing.
Flippers may win, eventually, if there aren't a ton of them purchased by speculators, but that will have to be seen. Definitely not a sure thing.
Many other designs could have been used (even of a black woman) that I think would be better than what was done/chosen. It's not a racial thing, for myself or many, even if it does smack too much of being too PC, but the image chosen definitely doesn't help many like it.
I can't wait to see if certain groups start commenting on this as I don't think it will please many.....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
No there wasn't one last year, but there was a silver Liberty Medal which sold out in minutes. (IIRC)
No telling how these will do (market-wise) ...but I'm guessing they head north before south.
Not bad in the grabs.
I hope marketing sells the modern update to 200+ coinage and Liberty on the inserts.
The coin geezers might need the story.
The more I look at it the more I like it! A well crafted portrait of a beautiful woman. The stars are not a bother to me in the least. Now the eagle on the reverse - just doesn't look right.
"Mint spokesman Michael White said the gold coins will be sold for about $1,500, a price based on the price of the medal. The Mint, White said, also will sell silver versions of the coin, which will cost about $40 to $50. Both can be purchased at the Mint's website, www.usmint.gov come April 6."
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2017/01/13/lady-liberty-depicted-african-american-us-mint/96533082/
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The Peace Dollar has obscure letters in LIBERTY as well and that issue is highly collectible. So I don't think that to be of a major concern. You make a good point there in regard to if it is rejected and low sales emerge, and you hold onto a few, a future profit could very well be in the offing. Others may jump on the bandwagon for this reason alone, despite it's opinionated design,to turn a profit.
Umm, weird answer. Were you expecting 4 shades of gold as well?
stars are a bit too large. distracting
Read my correction above your post. I addressed my error.
It is bigger than I thought, so that makes me like it more.
That's what she said.
I knew where the star design was appropriated from, however, I still maintain, that on a coin, it detracts from the design by forcing focus on what really is an incidental part. The USA news article was a poorly written piece of junk. Cheers, RickO
As I look at that eagle in more detail, I think I see what doesn't look right... at least to me.
The eagle appears to be a midget (oops... maybe that's not PC). It is a short, squat, fat eagle; the wings and head are way too large for the size of the rest of the body. Look how the wings nearly cover all of the legs... then look at other depictions of eagles that show much more leg and longer length (or at least the flying eagle cent reverse that I looked at before making this conclusion).
I'm not an expert on eagles... nor of coinage design... but just... looks.... wrong. Non inspiring. This was the best we can do???
Ugliest US coin minted so far ...
Flip it? No way. It ain't 2010. Way to go, Mint!, not a bu> @tincup said:
I think the reverse is based on this Robert Bateman eagle painting. The depiction of the birds right wing and stubby appearance are very similar, the left wing extended to fill the field on the coin and the tail cut off because, well, the RB version isn't very spectacular.
.
Does look very similar to the painting. The painting looks much more better in perspective than the representation on the coin.
The coin projects an image of a fat, squat, eagle struggling to remain airborne. Perhaps representative of our times??
I think the eagle looks funny not because so much of the downward wing position, but because it looks like it has one big turtle shell of a wing. The painting may have been the inspiration, but just like many copies, the details get lost in the translation. I personally think that the coin screen captures don't make the stars look as distracting as the drawings do on Liberty's headband. Had the stars been a bit smaller, or at the very least appeared to wrap around her head, I think the obverse design would be OK.
I do think though that the plan to be more diverse by doing a series of each ethnic background just opens the mint up to the PC police. Sooner or later there will be someone left out, or there will be whining and complaining about it. Maybe they can go to the carnival and use one of those photo booths that will blend two people and show what their children will look like, load it with pictures of all of the ethnic, racial and gender neutral people we have and only then will Liberty depict the American idea of diversity. But I'm guessing that's not really the goal of the people who chose these designs.
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And for anyone who cares who the four initials are, the obverse artist is Justin Kunz, sculptor, Phebe Hemphill. Reverse, artist Chris Costello, sculptor Michael Gaudioso.
So it goes.
http://www.coinweek.com/us-coins/united-states-mint-unveils-historic-2017-high-relief-gold-coin-design/
The whole thing is out of perspective , no detail separating the wings, Looks like layers of
armor. No wonder he's struggling to stay airborne.
That's exactly what I said about the eagle on the gold walking liberty. I guess the new style is to make the birds look like they're made of metal or have a suit of feather armor on
since some of the Founders and signers of the Declaration of Independence held slaves, I find the criticism of the subject matter on this Bullion Coin ironic. what could be more emblematic of FREEDOM than an Black, African Woman used as the symbol of Liberty??
Well if the Mint was watching this thread I think they would limit production to 10K.
I dont think anyone is criticizing subject matter but the way they designed it
someone cheated on the eagle!
Other than the fact that the eagle's expression and body make it appear to be an Oven Stuffer roaster going off to its demise, the eagle strikes me odd in that the top of the bird (its back) seems to be tilted at an angle toward the viewer such that we can see more of it while the eagle's left wing (partially obscured from the viewer) seems to be in a position consistent with a more level observation point.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
The major media has now stepped into our hobby.......
New York Times
The Coin? Gold. Its ‘Real Value’? Lady Liberty Is Black.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/us/black-lady-liberty-us-coin.html?_r=0
Washington Post(99 Comments so far)
Lady Liberty is ‘modeled after our society’s continued evolution.’ In this new coin, she is black.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/01/14/lady-liberty-is-modeled-after-our-societys-continued-evolution-in-this-new-coin-she-is-black/?utm_term=.2a973073fef9
NBC News
For the First Time, Lady Liberty Depicted as a Woman of Color on U.S. Currency
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk/first-time-lady-liberty-will-be-depicted-woman-color-u-n706391
Daily Caller
US Mint Makes Lady Liberty Black For 225th Anniversary
http://dailycaller.com/2017/01/13/us-mint-makes-lady-liberty-black-for-225th-anniversary/#ixzz4Vm20wrmx
USA Today(181 Comments so far)
For the first time, Lady Liberty depicted as African American on a coin
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2017/01/13/lady-liberty-depicted-african-american-us-mint/96533082/
Anyone notice the single talon? Looks like an afterthought.
Maybe during a committee meeting, someone said, "Shouldn't the eagle have talons?"
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You forgot fox news -
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/01/13/lady-liberty-is-african-american-in-new-commemorative-coin.html
It will be interesting to see how the popular media attention affects sales. The HSN and others of that ilk will likely be in full throttle.
Let the Hysteria begin!
Any "accurate" guesses on mintage?
I like it. It's grown on me.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It's weird how the eagle's wing is almost in front of the body. Reminds me of one of those balancing toys...
Yet again......
So this is a coin by committee? That answers a lot of questions.
In my opinion, this coin design looks too much like a medal coin offering, not Lady Liberty.
The 2015 American Liberty HR had a 50K mintage, HHL of 50, and took about 6 months to fully sell out. I think they would have sold out faster had they produced the 2016 American Liberty silver medals in the same year. (For reference, it was also $400 over spot, priced at $1540 at initial offering. Gold spot right now is $50 higher than Oct 2015.)
That said, it's also the elite 225th anniversary coin, and the mint is hyping the hell out of it. There may also be up to 5 (yes,, five) silver medals based on the design. (Then again, the mint has been vague about this.)
My best guess is 75K, perhaps upwards of 100K. If they want to go full speed stupid, (like the Reagan C&C and the Coin and Currency sets), they'll set mintage at 125K, to make sure anyone in the known universe who wants one will get one.
Does anyone else think there's going to be a public outrage when all the new media is hyping this as a $100 coin, but will actually cost around $1600 when it goes on sale? (Collectors will realize $100 is a par value, but Joe Public is used to having their money at face value...)
Edit to add: The mint has clarified that the American Liberty gold coin series will be issued every other year. So every odd numbered year will see a new AL gold coin...