ANACS vs. PCGS vs. NGC
dmwest
Posts: 959 ✭✭✭✭
curious as to the differences of these 3 companies for grading. Are they equally reliable and respected?
Don't quote me on that.
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This was covered once or twice. Search and you will get a plethora of opinions
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I did overhear a dealer explaining to a potential buyer of slabbed coins the basic market pricing of similar graded NGC and PCGS coins over the past weekend at a show. I enjoyed listening to the explanation. The dealer was trying to educate the buyer for future purchases and eventual re-sale.
A lot of what I found is old.....I guess the battle is still going on...
Don't quote me on that.
There are recent articles from both PCGS and NGC comparing themselves to the other.
Don't know that I'd trust that......
Don't quote me on that.
If you trust online forum members by the nature of your question here, just look up the threads that discuss those articles.
I'm just impressed you could actually get the search function to work. I still can't figure that thing out with the new software. I search for things I have posted with key words and have a heck of a time.
Since you are new and theoretically want to be around for a long time, perhaps you should familiarize yourself with Rule 7
This sums it up:
PCGS
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NGC
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ANACS
Start by looking at the characteristics of the coin. Plastic is a temporary opinion
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
PCGS is considered at the top of the heap. NGC a weak second. Anacs pulls up the rear, though the earlier anacs holders seemingly hold more conservatively graded coins.
Upon resale, expect a discount of 10% to 50% plus on the lesser rated holders
New and green pcgs.
White small anacs
old ngc
new ngc
new anacs
Despite the broad and ambiguously claims of some, it really depends on what you are collecting.
Different companies specialize in different areas and some companies are wildly bad at others.
For instance, I collect toned coins. There are a lot of modern toned coins in PCGS slabs I wouldnt touch based on their lax standards towards NT/AT. I prefer NGC for modern toned.
If I was collecting non-toned high grade modern coins I would go with PCGS.
If you are collecting VAMS or other varieties, ANACS might be the right choice.
There are other examples though but you should really say what it is you will collect.
The US coin market demands PCGS, so what the market wants, it gets. As for the merits of the three companies, that's for you to decide. On foreign, NGC is well regarded.
How old? I'd say nothing has changed on how those 3 compare since January 2009.....8 years ago.
Everything else sort of stands on its own merits and associated stickers. ANACS coins are often traded as if they were raw....though your local dealers will likely charge you full PCGS money for anything they deem "ok."
NGC / PMG 47% of certified coin and currency items on ebay, PCGS 44%, ANACS 6%, ICG 2% based on my last tally of the TPG's recognized by ebay. I have 16 ANACS and ICG slabs in an NGC storage box devoted to those 2 TPG would like find 4 more fill it up. The rest of my slabbed inventory PCGS, NGC. If pricing my slabs for retail, I simply take the higher of the TPG MV, CW, or CDN Bid plus 50% (70% for CAC if no CDN bid value for CAC). Ones with plenty room may be BIN / MO.
I prefer PCGS for a number of reasons.
I have purchased nice coins in all 3 holders. I have found many nice coins (mercury dimes and Morgans mainly) in old white ANACS holders. The holders seem to tone coins in an appealing way over time.
I've cracked and upgraded 20+ coins from ANACS holders to PCGS in the last 3 years and all were the same grade or went up...one mercury dime in my last submission went from a 64 FB- 67 FB. I bought it off a dealer's ebay site who posts here regularly, haha.
There are good coins and bad coins in each holder, so you should be focusing on the coin first. PCGS graded coins have the best resale value for US coins, so that is where I try to have my coins graded.
If you buy the coin, not the holder, there are opportunities still out there based on the perceptions discussed in this thread. Have found some neat gems in old and new ANACS holders that have easily crossed, at grade, from ANACS to PCGS. Have not had the same success with NGC.
If I like the coin, I buy it. If it needs to be in a registry set, I will cross it. I don't sell coins directly, but have consigned a few and seem to enjoy a fairly even return on slabbed coins, regardless of TPG.
I will say that at the other end of the market--the $200 and under coins, for example--it's nice to have a local TPG that I can use to get that important genuine or variety attribution. And just to be clear, I'm a PCGS member directly and an NGC submitter through ANA membership. I like them all (for different uses).
Gonna get me a $50 Octagonal someday. Some. Day.
I went to a very small show this weekend.
I had no agenda, not looking for anything in particular. Free styling.
It dawned on me just how prejudice I've become.
Looking only at PCGS holdered or raw coins.
Was not pleased with myself when I realized this.
Sad about what I could have missed.
Need an attitude adjustment.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
>
No kidding. Were you looking to flip or to add to your collection. I like the look of the anacs small holders and pick them up when I can...at the right price.
Just collection additions.
I also like the small anacs holders, soap bar NGC's too.
Got in a rut I suppose.
Too much Kool-aid......but it's sooo sweet.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Me too.
If you are buying to sell, certainly PCGS is the slab to have...also necessary for their registry. If you collect, the coin is the objective... and great coins can be found in any slab or even raw. I collect... I have all three slabs in my collection and like the coins I have....Cheers, RickO
No offense, but if you are asking that question then I doubt you are ready to understand all the subtleties that are required for a broad-based, meaningful answer.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I let my eyes do the looking, but I send my coins to PCGS for grading... or degrading. It depends on how you look at it.
And it will continue. Asking the difference between the TPGs, you might as well ask who makes the best pizza, or chili. You'll get as many differing opinions as the number of people you ask.
Just my eversohumble opinion.
Cheers
Bob
When anyone starts off by "No offense" I prepare for something rude....you didn't disappoint. Answers like this are not helpful and may put off other new folks from asking questions.
Don't quote me on that.
I think the saying is "Buy the coin NOT the holder"
Do not only buy plastic, but the coin!
Not to be a buttinski (but I will be) -- if you were to give TomB a chance, you'll find him to be one the straightest shooters and overall nice guys around. Maybe send him a PM. The thing of it is, among the 3 slabbing services you mention -- there are both dogs that are horrible for the grade, and undiscovered gems that are the opposite. At different times in their histories, some of these companies tended to do better/worse; and even when applying standards consistently, that standard may or may not be the acceptable standard of today.
So in sum, it's complicated. The one thing you can be sure of, when buying an ANACS, NGC or PCGS piece, is that it's not a counterfeit. When it comes to famously counterfeited key dates and the like, this is the first box you need to check (is it real) and then you can get to the "what's it grade" part.
Just FYI, it depends on the series and the grade range, even if you are looking at the coin.
"curious as to the differences of these 3 companies for grading. Are they equally reliable and respected?"
I think it's fair to say that all three are reliable and respected, but understand that everyone and every company make mistakes sometimes.
It's difficult to say whether one is more accurate or conservative. It can vary a lot, especially with the series.
As a rule the marketplace generally prefers PCGS for US coins, especially early federal ones. Auction prices bear this out. But it would be silly to ignore nice coins graded by the others. You can find dogs as well as marvels with all three companies (and even other TPG's, like ICG and PCI).
Let your eye be your guide. And welcome to the forum!
Lance.
In other words, reliability and respectability does not equal equal marketability, for the reasons previous posters have outlined. At bare minimum, there is the guarantee of authenticity.
Those earlier, nuanced threads from years past did a great deal to educate me on the merits of each service. There is a tendency on these boards to categorize the "market" as the one comprised of the larger dealer circuit, bigger auctions, and top dollar coins.
This does not necessarily include smaller, regional shows, or certain segments of the market. There are many markets, as the phrase here to describe certain dealers as "market-makers" implies, as well as the break down of US vs. world, slabbed registry collectors vs. raw series collectors, etc. There is no one, monolithic market, which likely explains the varying opinion on how coins are doing these days. Different markets have different customer segments, different histories (prices, players, etc), and dynamics.
Likewise with the TPGs. I focus on the coin and not the holder. That mindset allows me to see a much larger cross section of coins than would someone focused only on one holder. I generally prefer our host's holders and collect some coins for registry purposes. But I have searched far and wide, including raw coins, for upgrades/crossing and just to have because it's the coin I want.
Aside from the threads available here via search, if that is workable, I'd suggest sticking around and just absorbing the quality knowledge the other posters have to offer. Like all coins in TPG, you must separate the wheat from the chaff when it comes to quality responses.
Gonna get me a $50 Octagonal someday. Some. Day.
Try not to pay PCGS prices for NGC and ANACS holdered coins. If you do be prepared to be punished on the resell. That should tell you a lot
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Research prices like @Justacommeman said, either at auction or elsewhere.
For example, a great coin I picked up in an ANACS holder was priced at PCGS MS63 instead of the MS64 on the holder label. It looked like all of 64 and more. I crossed the coin to PCGS at grade and eventually got a green CAC bean. The point? ANACS traded at a discount to other holders, even though the coin was all there and more.
But the difference can mean serious $$$, especially at sale time as other have repeated.
Some feel that coins can be "buried" in the slab they are in because of the holder. I guess it all comes down to what your collecting goals are, if you want or prefer one company over another (for registry purposes, let's say), or if you want to play the crossing game, which takes time and money.
Gonna get me a $50 Octagonal someday. Some. Day.
My thoughts on the three grading companies. PCGS was the shining star that's getting dimmer but you still get the best money out of a coin. NGC I feel is getting better but the prices don't show it. ANAC is rising in acceptance with collectors for buying coins and popping them out of the slab. Just my thoughts Sam
Of course you are ASKING this on the PCGS board, so there could be a certain bias...
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
All 3 holders have very nice coins most of the time, but PCGS's per centage is better than the other 2. ICG also has some nice coins. When looking for coins I need for my Dime sets I will consider any coin in any holder or even raw. But after purchase if the coin is not in PCGS it goes to PCGS so that it will be able to go into my sets and easier to sell when that day comes.
for a fair answer, you would have to ask this question on a board not associated with either three. for an unbiased answer one should ask the audience to show the counterfeits that slipped by the graders... at each service. if you are very very brave. once you see what they miss, your confidence may take a beating
Actually, I was being honest and I will continue to be honest in this reply as well, regardless of if you interpret the honesty as rudeness. However, I understand that the written word does not necessarily contain the same warm and fuzzy nature as an in person conversation and also realize that you may be new to reading these boards and may not be familiar with the style of writing that some of us will use.
I wrote "no offense" because I meant no offense. Your initial question was too simplistic, in my view, to allow a reasonable framework for anyone who responded. It was similar to asking "Coke vs. Pepsi" or "Ford vs. Chevy" or any other myriad comparisons that on their face are far too broad to answer without a multi-paragraph or multi-page response; which is a bit much to ask of people when you have put so little effort into the framing of the question. Given that I interpret your question to be legitimate, I truly believe you may not have enough experience to grasp the subtleties that you may encounter in longer responses. That is an honest answer that is to the point, but I understand you did not like to read my shorter response and apparently did not realize how broad your question was, which goes directly back to my original point regarding experience. No doubt, my shorter response could also have been taken as a snarky put-down, but that was not my intent.
To answer your question one might want to know what certification era(s) you may want to compare; which metal(s) of coinage; the grade range(s) in question; if a service is likely to pick out certain problems that other services won't pick out; the secondary market liquidity; what one might expect at auction; how broad a window might a grade range encompass; what are the critical areas of overlap or difference; how heavily does eye appeal apparently influence a grade and at what range; how are the components of eye appeal weighed against one another; might there be a bias upon crossover service; fluency with die marriages; acceptance for world grading; etc....
The answers can be long and complicated and may change from person-to-person. In fact, most of the answers will change somewhat from person-to-person based upon their experience and length of time in the hobby-industry. That is a lot to ask in a short, open-ended question and it made me think that you were expecting something more along the lines of a short, binary answer instead of a whole lot of shades of grey.
I apologize if you took my response to be an insult. It was not intended to be, but it was intended to be the truth.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson