White Rattlers startying with PCGS # 108

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hle04
hle04 Posts: 53 ✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
I am wiling to start a census for these very rare holders. Now with the PCGS Museum of Holders getting so much publicity, this is probably a good time. I have two:

1904 $20 Gold MS63 #1084838

1898-O Morgan $1 MS63 #1081992

Could someone with more knowledge that I about posting images to the message boards, please PM me and explain so I post these images

Thanks

Howard

Comments

  • PCcoins
    PCcoins Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭
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    PM sent
    "It is what it is."
  • hle04
    hle04 Posts: 53 ✭
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    I have thought about the fact that the maximum amount of coins that could be white rattlers is 9,999. I put about 100 random numbers into the PCGS search and got hits on about 60%. But how many of these still exist- who knows? I feel coins to be included in the census should only be coins owned or previously owned by posters or ones that have images included. Thoughts?

    Howard
  • BAJJERFAN
    BAJJERFAN Posts: 31,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Originally posted by: hle04

    I have thought about the fact that the maximum amount of coins that could be white rattlers is 9,999. I put about 100 random numbers into the PCGS search and got hits on about 60%. But how many of these still exist- who knows? I feel coins to be included in the census should only be coins owned or previously owned by posters or ones that have images included. Thoughts?



    Howard




    At the very least the cert numbers should still be in the PCGS database.
    theknowitalltroll;
  • CoinRaritiesOnline
    CoinRaritiesOnline Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭✭
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    Here.
    John Agre

    Coin Rarities Online
  • hle04
    hle04 Posts: 53 ✭
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    Interesting fact so far. Of the 13 white rattler coins with images that I have seen, 8 have CAC sticker, including 3 Gold CAC
  • dbldie55
    dbldie55 Posts: 7,753 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Pop reports still have 6,903 with cert numbers starting with 108. Wonder how many are still in the original holders and of those, how many are the "white rattlers"
    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • hle04
    hle04 Posts: 53 ✭
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    Wow. Great research. My 60% sample seems pretty close. Could they have certified 61,000 coins in the first two weeks of February 1989? Does that mean there are coins starting with cert number 108 that are not white rattlers?
  • hle04
    hle04 Posts: 53 ✭
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    I misread number. Sorry. 6,900 coins in the first two weeks sounds more like it.
  • dbldie55
    dbldie55 Posts: 7,753 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Originally posted by: hle04

    I misread number. Sorry. 6,900 coins in the first two weeks sounds more like it.




    No, I first put the count starting with 108, but not 108xxxx, but 108xxxxx (so graded much later). I had to look for those between 1080000 and 1090000.



    Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
  • U1chicago
    U1chicago Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 7, 2017 7:42PM
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    Has anyone started a census of these white label rattlers?

    One just sold at GreatCollections this Sunday for strong money at $1,265.

    Certification Number: 1081304

    http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/435402/1935-Texas-Centennial-Half-Dollar-PCGS-MS-65-CAC-OGH-1st-Gen

  • Lew
    Lew Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
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    I don't have a picture -- I have 1900-P Morgan MS62 1081408

  • Sandman70gt
    Sandman70gt Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I messaged with hle04 some, seems he was here for a short time and hasn't been here since Nov. Another thread "Learn something new" was started by hle04.
    Some white labels are listed there. I have begun checking valid cert numbers on my down time at work.
    I thought that data would be a good start.

    Bst transactions with: dimeman, oih82w8, mercurydimeguy, dunerlaw, Lakesammman, 2ltdjorn, MattTheRiley, dpvilla, drddm, CommemKing, Relaxn, Yorkshireman, Cucamongacoin, jtlee321, greencopper, coin22lover, coinfolio, lindedad, spummybum, Leeroybrown, flackthat, BryceM, Surfinxhi, VanHalen, astrorat, robkool, Wingsrule, PennyGuy, al410, Ilikecolor, Southcounty, Namvet69, Commemdude, oreville, Leebone, Rob41281, clarkbar04, cactusjack55, Collectorcoins, sniocsu, coin finder

  • illini420
    illini420 Posts: 11,659 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Sandman70gt said:
    I messaged with hle04 some, seems he was here for a short time and hasn't been here since Nov. Another thread "Learn something new" was started by hle04.
    Some white labels are listed there. I have begun checking valid cert numbers on my down time at work.
    I thought that data would be a good start.

    Checking the early cert numbers is cool, but doesn't mean the coins are still in a white label rattler holder. Coins should not be added to any potential census of these unless someone here has seen them still in the holder!

    The Texas commemorative went pretty strong on Great Collections on Sunday as mentioned, but there was another listed there as well... an 1899 $5 Liberty in MS63 cert. no 1081973 that also sold for a substantial premium.

    greatcollections.com/Coin/435403/1899-Liberty-Gold-Half-Eagle-PCGS-MS-63-OGH-1st-Gen

    Both probably would have sold for even more had they been advertised as "white label" rattlers, though it's clear at least a couple of bidders found them anyways.

    I had three of them on my website recently, all have sold.

    1946 Walking Liberty Half Dollar MS64 cert no. 1081235
    1882-S Morgan Dollar MS64 cert no. 1081722
    1898-O Morgan Dollar MS63 CAC cert no. 1081992

    If no one else seems to want to keep a census thread of these, want me to start one???

    Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700

  • SurfinxHI
    SurfinxHI Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Go for it!

    I won't help tho....never seen one in hand.... :'(

    Dead people tell interesting tales.
  • stealer
    stealer Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭
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    I was an underbidder on both of those on GC...the Texas went for insane money.

  • Sandman70gt
    Sandman70gt Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Checking the early cert numbers is cool, but doesn't mean the coins are still in a white label rattler holder. Coins should not be added to any potential census of these unless someone here has seen them still in the holder!

    I realize that a valid cert is not an indication that a coin is still in a white label. Checking the certs would only give a number of possible white labels remaining.
    The highest cert number I have seen or heard of so far is my walker 43d 1082350.
    Another piece of info that needs to be determined is where the cert numbers are when the transition from 1.0 and 1.1 occurs. It is near 1081000.

    Bst transactions with: dimeman, oih82w8, mercurydimeguy, dunerlaw, Lakesammman, 2ltdjorn, MattTheRiley, dpvilla, drddm, CommemKing, Relaxn, Yorkshireman, Cucamongacoin, jtlee321, greencopper, coin22lover, coinfolio, lindedad, spummybum, Leeroybrown, flackthat, BryceM, Surfinxhi, VanHalen, astrorat, robkool, Wingsrule, PennyGuy, al410, Ilikecolor, Southcounty, Namvet69, Commemdude, oreville, Leebone, Rob41281, clarkbar04, cactusjack55, Collectorcoins, sniocsu, coin finder

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Now these white rattler holders are drawing a premium? I did not know that.. guess I better go look in my coin cabinet..... might have unknown treasures lurking in one of the drawers.... ;) Cheers, RickO

  • Lew
    Lew Posts: 173 ✭✭✭
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    I am under the impression that the generation 1 holder are 1.0 with numbers 1080xxx and 1.1 with numbers 1081xxx. The holders with numbers 1082xxx thru 1089xxx are not generation 1 holders; they have light green inserts (or a faded green which looks white) and don't really have a premium value.

  • DRUNNER
    DRUNNER Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I have one . . . . a Frankie Proof. I will go check the number. I love the idea of a Census . . .

    Drunner

  • stealer
    stealer Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭✭
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    @Lew said:
    I am under the impression that the generation 1 holder are 1.0 with numbers 1080xxx and 1.1 with numbers 1081xxx. The holders with numbers 1082xxx thru 1089xxx are not generation 1 holders; they have light green inserts (or a faded green which looks white) and don't really have a premium value.

    A small number of 1082xxx holders are also white labels. I don't know when they switched.

  • sadysta1
    sadysta1 Posts: 1,319 ✭✭✭
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    I was watching this one on eBay. If it gets delisted you can go for it....

  • Sandman70gt
    Sandman70gt Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 9, 2017 9:30AM
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    Illini420,
    If you are willing...Run with it. My computer skills are lacking.
    Some that I have personally seen pictures of, and from the above posts:

    1080129 1851 3cs ms63
    1080145 1909 $5 ms63
    1080197 1904O S$1 ms64
    1080508 1944D 50c ms65
    1080560 1938 50c PR65
    1080596 1900 $2.50 ms64
    1080710 1941 10c PR65
    1081878 1892 S$1 ms62
    1080805 1881S S$1 ms64
    1081041 1926 $2.50 Sesqui ms63
    1081045 1917 $5 McKin ms63
    1081235 1946 50c ms64
    1081408 1900 S$1 ms62
    1081544 1882S S$1 ms63
    1081722 1882S S$1ms64
    1081819 1882S S$1 ms65
    1081957 1936S 50c oregon ms65
    1081958 1938D 50c oregon ms66
    1081973 1899 $5 ms63
    1081992 1898O S$1 ms63
    1082350 1943D 50c ms63

    I will verify these cert nos. for accuracy tomorrow

    Bst transactions with: dimeman, oih82w8, mercurydimeguy, dunerlaw, Lakesammman, 2ltdjorn, MattTheRiley, dpvilla, drddm, CommemKing, Relaxn, Yorkshireman, Cucamongacoin, jtlee321, greencopper, coin22lover, coinfolio, lindedad, spummybum, Leeroybrown, flackthat, BryceM, Surfinxhi, VanHalen, astrorat, robkool, Wingsrule, PennyGuy, al410, Ilikecolor, Southcounty, Namvet69, Commemdude, oreville, Leebone, Rob41281, clarkbar04, cactusjack55, Collectorcoins, sniocsu, coin finder

  • illini420
    illini420 Posts: 11,659 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @sadysta1 said:
    I was watching this one on eBay. If it gets delisted you can go for it....

    That is not a white label rattler... not all PCGS slabs starting w/ 108 make the cut...

    Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700

  • crazyhounddog
    crazyhounddog Posts: 14,252 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If I can remember I'll pull out my rattler box tomorrow.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • Lakesammman
    Lakesammman Posts: 17,698 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    If you look at the proof Franklin, you can see the horizontal depressions in the paper that are lacking in the white rattlers. Keeps posted a good example some time ago.

    Helpful to note if the pic is washed out and looks like a OWR (old white rattler).

    Gone but not forgotten: IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal, CoinsAreFun.
  • U1chicago
    U1chicago Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Here is the other thread with many pictures:
    https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11563778#Comment_11563778

    @illini420 let me know if you want to create the census. If not, I'm willing to help create it.

  • illini420
    illini420 Posts: 11,659 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Ok, started up a census thread and added a few others to the list that I found... here's the thread and please let me know if you have any additions:

    New Census Thread

    Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 700

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