Flying Eagles
Sharkman987
Posts: 40 ✭
Does anyone collect these coins specifically or, do you just include them in your sets?
0
Sharkman987
Posts: 40 ✭
Comments
Used to and loved the short series. Lot's of varieties. Many collect them along with IHC's. A complete set of all varieties to include 1856 S1-10 would be quite an accomplishment. Tom Fore had the most complete set I've ever seen. After he passed, HA auctioned them recently.
I'll help with a picture of my favorite 1856.
Very nice '56. Is it a proof?
There are also Flying Eagle patterns that were made in 1854-1855, and well as several varieties with strong clash marks. The coin below has clash marks from the die used to make the obverse of a Seated Liberty half dollar ( look at the overlay below to see what I mean)
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Very nice! Here's mine... $15 should I go back and exchange it for the $35 one ?
Please do me a favor and stop buying coins for now. Also, do not ever go back to that dealer. Learn what honest wear looks like, and avoid cleaned, porous, scratched and in other ways damaged coins. These are common coins. You should be VERY picky with what goes in your set. Look at 10 or more before buying one.
Ok
I do not know your budget or your collecting goals, but since it sounds like spending a little more $ is not a major issue, then I agree with David. Whether this is going into a type set or just an accumulation of obsolete coinage, think value and price point, and get the nicest pieces you can, even if it means waiting a little while. Maybe an AU at $150 or so it out of your budget, but a nice original VF for around $50 is a much better value than a borderline cull for $15.
Ok, than you for the info, it's always appreciated! Maybe I can exchange it...
Your 1857 has been cleaned and has had some type of environmental issues going on with it in the past that was cleaned up.
HAPPY COLLECTING
I am a type collector and had in Flying Eagle Cent in my collection for a long time. When I bought this one back in the early 1980s it was the last coin I needed to complete a type set of cents from the Chain Cent to the present. It is now in an NGC MS-64 holder.
I bought this one more recently because of the quality of the strike. Many of these coins come with weakness on the tailfeathers and the center of the reverse. That was why the design was abandoned in 1858.
Here is one I have in my picture files that is poorly struck. This one is on the extreme end of "poorly stuck." It is probably a combination of the metal flow issues from the design (the eagle's head and tail are opposite the wreath on the reverse), and improper setting of the gap between the dies in the coin press.
James Longacre took credit for designing the Flying Eagle Cent, but he was, shall we say, strongly influenced by the design of another coin, the Gobrecht Dollar. Check out the eagle on the reverse of this piece. You will see what I mean.
Those are beautiful. I called the dealer and told him I wanted a high quality coin and I'm going to exchange mine. as far as I can tell this guy is no joke, he is BBB accredited has had a shop for a few years and has collected 10 years prior to that. when I purchased the coin he showed me several options. One of the problems I have is low vision, I guess I need to buy some kind of magnifying glass.
I think that's a wise decision to return it. Just because the dealer has been around for a while doesn't mean he is looking out for your best interest. Are you asking him questions about the coins? Does he alert you to the problems?
If you have some vision problems, I strongly suggest you stick to certified coins. That dealer didn't do you any favors. If he really wanted to cultivate you as a new customer who might turn into a regular customer, he would have steered you away from coins like this.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Sharkman987
My YouTube Channel
David, he told me for the $ it wasn't bad and he knew I just wanted to fill up a cardboard book... He did show me a better coin.
Sono, I thought about that. That may be a good long term way to go. I always imagined I'd pay more up front.
Fair enough. I'm not sure I agree that it's a good price, but he has the coin and if you are a willing buyer, it makes sense on his part. Also, what is your budget? How long do you expect to take to fill the album? Buying slabbed coins is not the answer unless you are spending $100/coin. However, if your eyesight is not great, you will definitely need to find a more helpful dealer.
Thanks. That piece of history is most interesting.
I believe it's better to save you money and buy one good coin rather than buying a bunch of low grade examples. You will be happier in the long run. Collections often take time.
Bill, based on what I've been through so far, I couldn't agree more.
My first. A little die rotation.
Do you guys think sticking to graded coins is the way to go? I'd love to have a graded 20th century collection .
Sharkman:
It still may be a matter of not adjusting your expectations to what a true collectable coin looks like. Any pitting, scratches, discolorations generally make a coin less desirable.
Check this link: https://pcgs.com/photograde/#/Flying/Grades
It's the online "PhotoGrade" on the PCGS site for the Flying Eagle cent. Note that even down at the grade of AG-03, they show coins with solid, smooth surfaces. Compare to yours, and you'll see that there is just "something wrong" with yours. Corrosion.
That doesn't mean you have to buy MS-65 coins! I'm sure we'd all love to do that, but budgets mean many of us can't.
But the one thing I learned early on that stuck with me is: "There is quality in every grade". In other words, if you look at a price guide, and decide you can afford a F-12 coin....go find a good looking, solid for the grade, F-12. It probably won't cost more than one with minor pitting, or a scratch, or a stain. But it will hold up as a "nice example" of the coin for years to come.
Seek the quality.
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That's one way to go. It's safest.
But it does depend on your budget to some extent as well. If you are looking for lower grades, in many cases there just aren't that many certified coins at low grade. To be worth it financially, coins probably have to be worth at least $100-$200 to bother with certification. (Some will say I'm shooting low, there). For $10 or $20 coins, you may be forced to fend for yourself, and just tighten up your standards.
As noted in your other thread, take the time to look at a lot of coins. Over time, you'll start to get the feel for what is acceptable, and what isn't.
An old saying is " Buy the best that you can afford".
And don't forget "The time to buy is when you see it"...how many time you see one but decide to come back later....gone.
Tough love. I took my wife to a local show a few years back and she desperately wanted to buy a Good-Fine FE cent. Everything she came back to show me was corroded, cleaned, or damaged....usually for $25 or more. It seemed it was not possible to get a fair shake from most dealers in attendance. I set her up with a friend who gave her an exemplary FINE for around $20-$30 as I recall. A Good-Fine FE cent is not typically found in a slab either.
A better saying is "buy the best you can understand"....buying the best you can afford, without understanding, can lead to financial disaster.
When you start to "get interested" in stuff, and get ready to buy, often the thought is "act quick!" This Great Deal may go away... So you buy 'whatever'. Make NO mistake, these are very common coins and thousands and thousands exist. Nice, old even wear, good 'normal' color and not looking corroded or dug up is what you're looking for. I puked when I seen the 1883 IHC you bought....that's a poster child for "what Not to buy".
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Ambro lol that's how I felt after I read the comments.
This board can be Brutal in its Honesty. Don't let this 'drive you off'. They lectured me almost a decade ago. "S L O W D O W N!" I didn't and made a lot of big buys at full retail in a topped bull market. I switched series several times....it was a lot of fun and resulted on a decent education. Selling is the brutal end of collecting for the most part. Finally my collecting ran to the most obscure niches, 1688 American Plantation Tokens, Vermont Coppers, Feuchtwanger three cents pieces, Mexico SUD coinage of General Morelas...and if you search "Gilfoil Copper". You'll see what it's like at the extreme polar end of Numismatics.
Yeah, don't let your first experience be a turnoff from numismatics. It IS a fun, educational, and aesthetically pleasing hobby. The joy you had, (which we may have unintentionally squashed), can be found again...and better...when you buy a truly worthy coin that you know you'll cherish for a long time! Hang in there.
Love that $20 clash Larry.
As others have mentioned above, I'd advise that you do some homework before pulling out your checkbook again. Both Great Collections and Heritage have easily searchable auction archives that can show you what coins in the budget you're looking at have been selling for. For example, here's an 1857 that sold for $36 ($41 with buyer's fee) a while back...
http://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/276163/1857-Flying-Eagle-Cent-PCGS-VF-20
This coin certainly isn't perfect (has what appears to be a minor rim bump at about 10:00 among others), but I'd say if the $35 raw coin your dealer is offering doesn't at least compare favorably to a coin like this, you shouldn't buy it.
Long day at Parent-Teacher Conferences . . but too fun a thread to let go . .
The Flying Eagle is a truly fun piece. Short series, several key but easy varieties, and plenty of room if you want to get 'spendy'. There are thousands of obliterated, abused, and otherwise minimally-collectible examples, but the hunt is what is the fun! Hold out for a superb VF30-35 example which is a great piece with a lot of meat that won't cost the multiples that a solid XF will cost.
A nice VF will show good detail, be worth the hunt, and also represents a coin that went through a substantial part of numismatic history. That hard metal resisted wear fairly well, so a VF was used and used . . . many penny-candy transactions, was slid across the bar as a tip many times, and was counted out at a general store as it traveled across the country in flannel and denim. I love those high end examples that you see above this post and truly envy them! What real EYE CANDY!
But for someone starting off, take a look at the grade where you get the biggest bang for the buck, without the jump in price. The Flying Eagle is a really fun coin . . . .
Drunner
I absolutely love the series and have managed to get further down the road with the complete variety set than Tom, but that was only after I was able to purchase some of his from the HA auction in Jan. 2016.
@Sharkman987...Welcome aboard.... You have certainly received a 'baptism by fire' here... however, all the great advice above is excellent and well intended. I recommend you buy a Redbook to begin... others to follow as your interest becomes more focused. Ask questions here... some answers may seem a bit harsh, however, I can assure you, most are good advice. Best of luck...Cheers, RickO
The FE short set can be expanded to include patterns, the 1859-1863 CopperNickel IHCs as well. You can also sell your first born child to get an 1856! It should be mentioned that the 1856 NEEDS to be TPG authenticated as Lots of altered date coins exist. If you buy one, and stare and wish at it....the altered 8 still won't be a 6.
I have had a few of the F.E. varieties in the past, but this one resides in my 19th Century Everyman Collection.
1857 1C F.E. DDO FS-101 S-4 PUP: doubling on “UNITED STATES OF AMERICA” and the Eagle's eye and body.
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I bought the bulk of Fore's set including some monsters, and rare minor varieties. Combined them with my set and I am only down to a few of the 58 SL's, Two of the 4 SL Proofs