Maybe Im just old, but this is how I believe MS66 should look. The cheek and the neck should be clean as well as the Eagle on the reverse. I guess I have some coins that need to be regraded if the coin above is the "new" MS66.
Maybe Im just old, but this is how I believe MS66 should look. The cheek and the neck should be clean as well as the Eagle on the reverse. I guess I have some coins that need to be regraded if the coin above is the "new" MS66.
Understood. It appears there is a gross differences in the way coins are graded. This is a great example of what I'm talking about. Just look at the differences in these two 66 and CAC'ed peace dollars. Something is wrong here. So, the coin your showing in the pcgs holder graded 66 looks more like a 67 and I'm sure nobody's gonna complain about it if it was. I have zero ideas why the peace dollar your showing is NOT a 67. What's up with that? It's by me as it looks flawless.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
@BryceM said:
There's an MS67+ 1925 Peace dollar you can look at on CoinFacts that has a worse reed mark square on the chin.
I do not collect Peace dollars but from what I see recently is a serious misjudgment of grading going on. I see HUGE differences of assigned grades that look like the same coin. One will be a 67+ and another that even looks better will be graded 65. Seriously I don't like what I see. I guess that's just me as I do not collect this series. Talk about a crap shoot!!
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Nah, the trick with peace dollars is to pay less attention to hits and more attention to luster. Frosty surfaces with booming luster make or break a coin. It's a tough call to make from a photo, and that's why I think people find them difficult to grade. Just grade it like you would a Morgan, subtract one point, and you'll be pretty close.
@BryceM said:
Nah, the trick with peace dollars is to pay less attention to hits and more attention to luster. Frosty surfaces with booming luster make or break a coin. It's a tough call to make from a photo, and that's why I think people find them difficult to grade. Just grade it like you would a Morgan, subtract one point, and you'll be pretty close.
That way of grading unfortunately takes many toned Peace $ out of receiving a higher grade which cannot be the case since there are 66s and 67s that are toned and do not have booming frost or luster. While there are not many, they do exist so you do have to look to hits and strike as well.
I unfortunately think is another area of grade inflation. While I do not have the time nor the inclination to do a full investigation, just my general observations seem to indicate that former MS64 coins are now 65s, and 5s are now 6s.
As to the OP coin, maybe it is a 65. Perhaps even a 66. But to my eye, its a 64 at best. Sorry I do wish you luck with it though.
@crazyhounddog said:
Here's one that graded 66 and with a CAC sticker. Pretty far from flawless. I like mine better. This is NOT my series but I've gotta say the 64 is kinda ruff on this girl....Here ya go
Coins like this are why I don't place blind faith in CAC. The coin looks overgraded. Over course, I might think differently when seeing it in hand.
@crazyhounddog said:
Here's one that graded 66 and with a CAC sticker. Pretty far from flawless. I like mine better. This is NOT my series but I've gotta say the 64 is kinda ruff on this girl....Here ya go
Coins like this are why I don't place blind faith in CAC. The coin looks overgraded. Over course, I might think differently when seeing it in hand.
Looks like a beauty and congratulations! With that kind of luster/mint bloom, strike and the few hits I could easily see that in a 6 holder...
Nice going!
I'll stand firm with my 66 evaluation. If this piece grades lower than a 65 I better read my ANA grading book again. No freaking way this piece is a 64. Of course this is my humble opinion.
I'll for sure post the results.
Thanks to all for your contributions. Much appreciated.
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
@crazyhounddog said:
I'll stand firm with my 66 evaluation. If this piece grades lower than a 65 I better read my ANA grading book again. No freaking way this piece is a 64. Of course this is my humble opinion.
I'll for sure post the results.
Thanks to all for your contributions. Much appreciated.
@BryceM said:
Nah, the trick with peace dollars is to pay less attention to hits and more attention to luster. Frosty surfaces with booming luster make or break a coin. It's a tough call to make from a photo, and that's why I think people find them difficult to grade. Just grade it like you would a Morgan, subtract one point, and you'll be pretty close.
That way of grading unfortunately takes many toned Peace $ out of receiving a higher grade which cannot be the case since there are 66s and 67s that are toned and do not have booming frost or luster. While there are not many, they do exist so you do have to look to hits and strike as well.
I unfortunately think is another area of grade inflation. While I do not have the time nor the inclination to do a full investigation, just my general observations seem to indicate that former MS64 coins are now 65s, and 5s are now 6s.
As to the OP coin, maybe it is a 65. Perhaps even a 66. But to my eye, its a 64 at best. Sorry I do wish you luck with it though.
I find your comments to be interesting. I have personally never seen an MS66 graded Peace dollar in NGC or PCGS plastic without significant luster, toned or not. This is especially true for MS67 coins. With toning it is harder to see it, yes, but it is ALWAYS there. One possible exception is a white 1926-P coin that I used to own. That one had virtually perfect surfaces but the luster was somewhat subdued.
Of course hits and strike are important in grading, but when it comes to Peace Dollars, they're just frequently over-emphasized by those who grade from photos. Things like hairlines and luster are difficult to evaluate unless you have it in-hand and preferably out of plastic.
@crazyhounddog said:
I'll stand firm with my 66 evaluation. If this piece grades lower than a 65 I better read my ANA grading book again. No freaking way this piece is a 64. Of course this is my humble opinion.
I'll for sure post the results.
Thanks to all for your contributions. Much appreciated.
Having seen it in hand, you are by far the best to make that decision. I hope it works out for you in the grading room. Regardless of whatever happens, it is a luster bomb and a nice score for $25.
The NGC MS66 CAC coin crazyhounddog posted looks like a very nice MS66 to me. It's frosty and very flashy. There are three visible reed hits on the eagle which keep it out of MS66+ territory in my book. On the obverse, there is a small hit on the lower neck and a small hit on the "D" of "GOD". The other stuff is ENORMOUSLY over-exaggerated in photos and represents only superficial luster breaks, not hits. In-hand, those things would be difficult to see. Again, the enormous frost, luster, and strong strike detail carry the grade. The usual locations to spot friction are the wrinkles in the eagle's rock, central feather detail, central cheek, and neck truncation areas. These show only trivial luster breaks, far better than you'd see on most coins.
I'd grade it MS67 for luster, 66+ for strike, 66+ for eye appeal, and 65+ for surfaces. Final grade = 66.
@Wabbit2313 said:
64 and not worth the grading fees.
The most intelligent post in this thread IMO - certainly not a "rip".
Maybe not a significant rip, but unc. Peace Dollars don't get much cheaper than $25 and this one looks very choice for the price. Even if it is 'just' a 64, the great strike and eye appeal sets it apart from the run of the mill examples.
Interesting thing about 1925's; they seem to come in two flavors, typical '22 to '24-esque, and ones like this. This is mentioned in the coinfacts narration, take a look, it's an interesting read.
I have 4 lights in my arsenal. Shall I turn them all on and pound it with light? Not sure what else could possibly be seen but I'll do it if one single person wants me to. I can even do it GSC style
I really do appreciate all of this insight. Like I've said several times, this is not my series. I am, however, familiar with coins and grading raw, but my main focus has always been buffalo nickels. I'm kinda interested in these peace dollars though. I think it's one of the prettiest busts of Miss Liberty on any US dollars.
Many thanks
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
I went back to look at some of the earlier posts... I am just having a bit of an issue gauging the coin with the contrast in terms of offering a grade. And I do think it is a terrific coin... Please don't take my comments on the image the wrong way.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
If you wanted to send it in and shoot for 66 and verify it's not cleaned/polished you should go for it. I would let someone take a look at it though beforehand. Maybe if the white balance was correct in the picture it would maybe be better to make a possible grade estimate. I know you did your best to present it here. I see some parrelell hairlines in a couple of areas. And I may be wrong on what I see. I hope you do send and let us know. I like the PD, but they are no fun to grade.
That's a beautiful Peace- looks like the luster just drips from coin; I'd be in the MS65 camp. I'd personally pay a bit of a premium just for the luster. Very nice, and good buy for $25!
@crazyhounddog said:
I'll stand firm with my 66 evaluation. If this piece grades lower than a 65 I better read my ANA grading book again. No freaking way this piece is a 64. Of course this is my humble opinion.
I'll for sure post the results.
Thanks to all for your contributions. Much appreciated.
I am so happy I don't have to read my ANA grading book again. Yes it graded 65.
Thanks again to all for the help.
Happy hunting, Joe
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
I would have guessed MS67+ if not for the marks on the obverse and a few on the reverse. MS65 seems low. (I'm not suggesting you crack n' cross as that would be a dangerous proposition if it comes back less than MS66.)
Comments
Amazing coin for $25 ! That's a score for sure.
The Grumpy Brigade here isn't going to risk guessing high. I agree that it's AT LEAST a gem 65, possibly better as you think.
Only one way to find out.
Here's what a MS66 Peace $ should look like and CAC agrees this is an A coin.
I just dont see how the NGC coin and the PCGS are both A coins...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1925-P-Peace-Silver-Dollar-PCGS-MS66-CAC-Super-Luster-Good-Strike-Free-Ship-84W-/132096636998?hash=item1ec192b846:g:6cMAAOSw4shX3Zj1
Maybe Im just old, but this is how I believe MS66 should look. The cheek and the neck should be clean as well as the Eagle on the reverse. I guess I have some coins that need to be regraded if the coin above is the "new" MS66.
Understood. It appears there is a gross differences in the way coins are graded. This is a great example of what I'm talking about. Just look at the differences in these two 66 and CAC'ed peace dollars. Something is wrong here. So, the coin your showing in the pcgs holder graded 66 looks more like a 67 and I'm sure nobody's gonna complain about it if it was. I have zero ideas why the peace dollar your showing is NOT a 67. What's up with that? It's by me as it looks flawless.
There's an MS67+ 1925 Peace dollar you can look at on CoinFacts that has a worse reed mark square on the chin.
I do not collect Peace dollars but from what I see recently is a serious misjudgment of grading going on. I see HUGE differences of assigned grades that look like the same coin. One will be a 67+ and another that even looks better will be graded 65. Seriously I don't like what I see. I guess that's just me as I do not collect this series. Talk about a crap shoot!!
The ncg coin is not near the PCGS coin.
Nah, the trick with peace dollars is to pay less attention to hits and more attention to luster. Frosty surfaces with booming luster make or break a coin. It's a tough call to make from a photo, and that's why I think people find them difficult to grade. Just grade it like you would a Morgan, subtract one point, and you'll be pretty close.
25's come with booming luster. Nice pick up!
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That way of grading unfortunately takes many toned Peace $ out of receiving a higher grade which cannot be the case since there are 66s and 67s that are toned and do not have booming frost or luster. While there are not many, they do exist so you do have to look to hits and strike as well.
I unfortunately think is another area of grade inflation. While I do not have the time nor the inclination to do a full investigation, just my general observations seem to indicate that former MS64 coins are now 65s, and 5s are now 6s.
As to the OP coin, maybe it is a 65. Perhaps even a 66. But to my eye, its a 64 at best. Sorry I do wish you luck with it though.
Man those pieces are frosty.
Coins like this are why I don't place blind faith in CAC. The coin looks overgraded. Over course, I might think differently when seeing it in hand.
Very nice for $25! Clean cheek.
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This!
The most intelligent post in this thread IMO - certainly not a "rip".
Looks like a beauty and congratulations! With that kind of luster/mint bloom, strike and the few hits I could easily see that in a 6 holder...
Nice going!
AB
Here's a PCGS 66 I used to own, Joe. I felt it was fairly graded.
I trust your eye better than images anyway.
Lance.
I'll stand firm with my 66 evaluation. If this piece grades lower than a 65 I better read my ANA grading book again. No freaking way this piece is a 64. Of course this is my humble opinion.
I'll for sure post the results.
Thanks to all for your contributions. Much appreciated.
Fingers crossed for you!
I find your comments to be interesting. I have personally never seen an MS66 graded Peace dollar in NGC or PCGS plastic without significant luster, toned or not. This is especially true for MS67 coins. With toning it is harder to see it, yes, but it is ALWAYS there. One possible exception is a white 1926-P coin that I used to own. That one had virtually perfect surfaces but the luster was somewhat subdued.
Of course hits and strike are important in grading, but when it comes to Peace Dollars, they're just frequently over-emphasized by those who grade from photos. Things like hairlines and luster are difficult to evaluate unless you have it in-hand and preferably out of plastic.
Wow would have bought it too
Having seen it in hand, you are by far the best to make that decision. I hope it works out for you in the grading room. Regardless of whatever happens, it is a luster bomb and a nice score for $25.
The NGC MS66 CAC coin crazyhounddog posted looks like a very nice MS66 to me. It's frosty and very flashy. There are three visible reed hits on the eagle which keep it out of MS66+ territory in my book. On the obverse, there is a small hit on the lower neck and a small hit on the "D" of "GOD". The other stuff is ENORMOUSLY over-exaggerated in photos and represents only superficial luster breaks, not hits. In-hand, those things would be difficult to see. Again, the enormous frost, luster, and strong strike detail carry the grade. The usual locations to spot friction are the wrinkles in the eagle's rock, central feather detail, central cheek, and neck truncation areas. These show only trivial luster breaks, far better than you'd see on most coins.
I'd grade it MS67 for luster, 66+ for strike, 66+ for eye appeal, and 65+ for surfaces. Final grade = 66.
I have also seen booming luster turn out to be a really good whiz job. It is difficult to spot on Peace dollars.
i have made a bunch of 66's over the years, 4 or 5 66+, and ZERO 67's. That is an impossible grade these days.
Still not wild about how the image looks for grading, but it is a terrific looking coin and 65 seems probable
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
And I mean probable as the floor with greater upside as a 65+ or 66
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I am eager to see what this one does, regardless of result.
Maybe not a significant rip, but unc. Peace Dollars don't get much cheaper than $25 and this one looks very choice for the price. Even if it is 'just' a 64, the great strike and eye appeal sets it apart from the run of the mill examples.
Interesting thing about 1925's; they seem to come in two flavors, typical '22 to '24-esque, and ones like this. This is mentioned in the coinfacts narration, take a look, it's an interesting read.
Collector, occasional seller
I have 4 lights in my arsenal. Shall I turn them all on and pound it with light? Not sure what else could possibly be seen but I'll do it if one single person wants me to. I can even do it GSC style
I really do appreciate all of this insight. Like I've said several times, this is not my series. I am, however, familiar with coins and grading raw, but my main focus has always been buffalo nickels. I'm kinda interested in these peace dollars though. I think it's one of the prettiest busts of Miss Liberty on any US dollars.
Many thanks
I went back to look at some of the earlier posts... I am just having a bit of an issue gauging the coin with the contrast in terms of offering a grade. And I do think it is a terrific coin... Please don't take my comments on the image the wrong way.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
delete
FWIW, Here is my PC65 1925 Peace Dollar for another comparison.
My photo setup isn't very fancy, literally two desk lamps and a NIkon Coolpix L18
Collector, occasional seller
I think it would be between 64 and 65.
Still a gem of a find for only $25!
Why so salty?
OP, I like your coin.
For your $25 you have an awesome coin, that they're not making anymore, and a few pages of great comments and banter about it.
Edit: That salty guy was bammed.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Luster is good, should pull it to 65.
i love the looks of that one.
If you wanted to send it in and shoot for 66 and verify it's not cleaned/polished you should go for it. I would let someone take a look at it though beforehand. Maybe if the white balance was correct in the picture it would maybe be better to make a possible grade estimate. I know you did your best to present it here. I see some parrelell hairlines in a couple of areas. And I may be wrong on what I see. I hope you do send and let us know. I like the PD, but they are no fun to grade.
That's a beautiful Peace- looks like the luster just drips from coin; I'd be in the MS65 camp. I'd personally pay a bit of a premium just for the luster. Very nice, and good buy for $25!
Best of luck, but I see a 64 maybe 64+
I am so happy I don't have to read my ANA grading book again. Yes it graded 65.
Thanks again to all for the help.
Happy hunting, Joe
Nice coin. I wouldn't have gone 66, but I don't really matter much
--Severian the Lame
I think for the initial $25 purchase price, congrats are in order
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coin looks great!
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
Sweet!
Collector, occasional seller
Thanks buddy
Nice Peace piece.
Fun thread.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
I would have guessed MS67+ if not for the marks on the obverse and a few on the reverse. MS65 seems low. (I'm not suggesting you crack n' cross as that would be a dangerous proposition if it comes back less than MS66.)
Congrats... Still looks as if the lustre was strong enough for a +
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Agreed. The luster is booming on this piece and any blemishes are exaggerated by the imaging. It's much, much nicer in hand.
Thanks again
Nice grade and lovely coin, congrats!
Congratulations!