I've tried to buy this 39-d nickel so many times, 66fs, 66+fs, 67fs, now it's a 67+fs.
AllCoinsRule
Posts: 2,447 ✭✭✭✭
I have most 1953-date nickels but have been trying to get a key date 39-d and start work on the 1938-1952 portion of the set. I keep being outbid (somewhat hedging my bid a little since I knew the coin was previously graded lower). At least twice I was the underbidder though. It's easily seen to be the same coin by the nick on the chin and spot at the upper right reverse rim. I don't think I'll be bidding on it ever again. How is a collector though supposed to put up with this?
First as a 66fs
Next a 66+fs
Next a 67fs
And now it's a 67+fs on coinfacts cert #83208363.
3
Comments
Wow ! Nice coin.
You may change your mind and try to buy it again when it's in an MS68FS holder... I'd do it then before it gets into an MS68+FS holder you know
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
Ok...here's the question for you...
How do YOU grade the coin? Don't look at the label. What do YOU think the grade and value are?
If you see it as a 66fs, then stop chasing it unless you could get it for that type of price. If, when it was a 66fs, you thought it was so nice it should be a 67fs or 67+fs, then it is what it is, right?
If people really worried about coins with labeled grades being higher now than earlier, think about the ones grade 65 when PCGS started....I think I recall hearing that they didn't grade higher than that at that point, right? So, if it is a 67 now, but was a 65 then, should it matter?
Grade the coin, price it as you see it, and then, if you get it, you get it. If not, then you don't and you move on or get out the playdoh and coloring books
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Low end 69 at best.
This is a perfect example of the gradeflation that is ruining the hobby IMHO.
It also happens to reenforce Salzberg's Axiom.
No one has put it in their registry set, so there is still a chance.
next stop 68
Obviously have not seen in hand, but looks 67 fs to me, had a 66fs one of these some years ago, and I believe this one is a touch nicer!
This thread showcases exactly how a serious collector "deals with this". Simply hiring an expert in the field to screen auction lots for a small fee (only on the lots actually won). I do it all the time for collectors as do many others.
Wondercoin.
I had a registry set of full step Jeffs about 12 years ago. Here is my 2 cents. If you start at 70 as being perfect, 69 having a very minor issue, 68 having a couple of minor issues, where does this coin end up? Those are extremely clean jaw and cheek bones. Seen plenty of 67's with more. The steps? No issue with the 5 complete steps. I blew that nickel up on an Ipad earlier this evening. All I see is what you mentioned. The chin hit and a slight anomaly at the upper right reverse rim. I think you should kick yourself in the butt for not stepping up when it was for sale in a 66 holder. Again, my 2 cents.
the coin is nice but I believe it was properly graded at 66FS. what puts me off is that it shows clear signs of being LDS with the fields starting to deteriorate. I have seen my share of Jefferson Nickels that look like that, they have a soft appearance and seem to shimmer with nothing close to luster that spins. also, for an R.40 issue the steps aren't really that distinct.
you should save your money.
The thing is, unless you or someone you trust looks at a coin, you are in essence buying it sight unseen. The worst thing you can do is buy an expensive coin sight unseen. I don't care what the holder says.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Someone is making money here.
The question that occurs to me is.... Will it hit MS68FS???? Stay tuned for the next episode...
Cheers, RickO
You admittedly keep chasing the same coin with conservative bids as the grade goes higher. Either bid high enough to get the coin or walk away.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Sounds like you should have upped your bid a couple years ago.
What's interesting is that every time someone got a 1/2 point upgrade, they sold the coin so the next guy would enjoy the profits from his/her upgrade (instead of recognizing the potential for further upgrading). LOL. A point and a half move is not all that unusual on the right coin. A few weeks back, I handpicked from a collection and submitted for the customer a very scarce classic coin grading ANACS-MS65 that came back PCGS-MS67. It turned a roughly $2,000-$3,000 coin into possibly a $20,000-$25,000 coin. I was not the least bit surprised as the coin looks amazing in the MS67 holder.
Wondercoin
MS65FS is how I grade it. Like Keets said, the strike is weak in many areas and there's die erosion forming on both sides. The coin has likely been dipped which has damaged the great luster it once had when struck. MDS headed to LDS. When details on the working dies become weak or are missing, when the metal has no place to go, the steps will fill out like they clearly have on this coin. An example with smooth surfaces, deep hairlines, sharp windows and triangle above the pillars with full steps is a far more deserving trophy for one's hunt and money. But they are hard to find.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Here are a couple to compare to and the type 2 could be more detailed at the top of the obverse.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
properly graded at 66FS. what puts me off is that it shows clear signs of being LDS with the fields starting to deteriorate.
i agree with this.
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be.---Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States of America, 1801-1809. Jefferson was the primary author of the Declaration of Independence.
Sweet. It pays to know your coins.
All I see when I look at this is the gouge on the chin. I send it in and it comes back 65.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
Leo, we sometimes argue but I can only agree with your assessment on this coin and the reasons why it looks nice.
Interesting discussion... I would suggest this is not the work of grade inflation but the subjective nature of grading. In part this is the story about a coin that has exceptionally clean features which grabs the eyes of any grader. The LDS has been raised as a basis for keeping it in 65 or 66 holder. Grading is merely an opinion and an opinion can change. A 67 FS does not seem unreasonable.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Shag is right on! Without seeing it in hand, I can't argue with the current grade. I hope the steps are "all there"!
Kick yourself in the butt for not going for it when it was an MS66FS! If you find a great coin, you have to step up! Someone else did on this one.
If I ran across that coin raw, I would consider paying 65 money for it. And not fs. Then, if I did buy it, it would find a place in a mid-tier set in a Dansco album. Then, every time I looked at it I'd kick myself and wonder what was I thinking when I bought it. The die state is shot and the nick on the chin is a killer.
I can agree with the 66FS
Steve
It's an OK coin, but I have seen better in 65FS holders.
So far the majority of the gain has probably gone to Heritage in buyer fees
PCGS has probably made a decent chunk as well
Just so everyone knows or has some idea what I mean when I say a coin has weak details and suffers from die erosion. Die erosion will look like the surfaces of an orange called orange peel and worse. I have circled 5 areas where this effect can be seen on the coin but it's just starting to appear on this coin. It's not on a grand scale but it's there. There are many circles where the strike is weak from missing hair details to weak pony tail, rounded top digits, soft mushy window details or they didn't strike up to an incomplete triangle above the pillars. Personally, the only way a coin that shows weakness in details can grade MS65 by my standards is if there's some eye appealing toning and the coin in question doesn't even have that so I was being generous with my MS65 opinion? I hope this helps someone.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Hey Leo, what's up.
So if I can help clarify, Leo is say that a coin has to be one of the first 10 or 20 struck under perfect pressure and hand picked off the press to have a chance at grading MS66 or better by his standards. Always having fun!
I agree with you leo. The TPG grading standards for Jefferson nickels is erratic to say the least. Just to emphasize your assessment, the only way that coin, in my opinion, could possibly grade higher than 65 is if it had exceptional eye appeal. Which it doesn't have. Also, as I stated in my first post, the nick on the chin is a KILLER. It's big, it's in a very prominent place, and it's very distracting. So much so that it even distracts from noticing all the other problems. Go figure.
I can sympathize with the OP. I have bid on this coin multiple times - 3 auctions in the past 11 months. First as a 66 OGH CAC:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/barber-half-dollars/half-dollars/1908-o-50c-ms66-pcgs-cac/a/1233-4920.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
Then as a 66+ CAC:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/barber-half-dollars/half-dollars/1908-o-50c-ms66-pcgs-cac/a/1238-4803.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
Now as a 67:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/barber-half-dollars/1908-o-50c-ms67-pcgs/a/1252-3794.s?ic2=mybidspage-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyBids-101116
Hey, crackout guys - I'm the only one that actually wants to OWN this thing!
Stop playing the game and let me win it for once.
Leo, Is that ANACS 66FS example a true full step coin? Looks like a major hit across the steps after the third column? I don't see any portico steps on that example as well.
I suspect that whoever has been upgrading this coin has been doing so with the "Reconsideration" Service and not a crack-out. an aside to Leo, if I were to micro-grade as you have with the red circles I would never buy a coin in my lifetime.
Thus far, Heritage has made out like a bandit while the second seller made essentially nothing if one assumes they purchased it through Heritage and paid for the PCGS and CAC evaluations. This trend is likely to lessen, but not go away, as the coin now has been stripped of its CAC sticker. I expect it to net more for this seller, but Heritage is the big winner.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Well now that I look at it through Leo's eyes, I retract my solid 66FS statement and give it a Unc. Details w/Graffiti grade
Steve
The picture is from an old camera 1999 that took pictures with only 1.8 or 2.1 mb compared with what's out there today. I know that I need to rephoto my coins, some I have already done. But I really doubt there's a nick there otherwise I wouldn't have bought it. But since you mentioned it, now I'll have to dig the thing out just to have a look and make sure you're wrong. lol
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Well, it's not that bad of a coin for someone starting out but once a sharp detailed example comes along, of any date for that matter, and let's remember this is only the second year of the entire series so there's got to be sharp detailed pristine examples out there, why settle for anything less? One would eventually need to upgrade to match the quality of the rest of the collection. This is not rocket science, it's in the hunt of a true collector's blood to do so. lol
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection