Does PCGS give approval of a member here using another member's posted photos?
afford
Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
I am inquiring of any photos posted here, not just of coins. So if one were to write an article and use the photo posted here by the member does one need to get PCGS's approval beforehand or even the member's or is it deemed public domain and perfectly allowed?
Thanks
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I don't know but someone here may have the answer.
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You need to get the owner of the photos permission. I.e., whoever took the photo.
The original copyright owner retains all rights per the Berne Convention.
There are various exceptions, such as the Fair Use clause, but for the most part, anyone wishing to reproduce an image must seek the copyright owner's permission.
This has been brought up before with some differences in beliefs. I have always felt ANY pic on the inter-net is free domain.
I tend to agree with that sentiment although I can see both sides.
But currently for some reason I can not post pics as of last night and today?
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
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I had trouble attaching a pic to a post today also. Must be something wrong with the forum.
Works ok for me.
Doesn't look like it to me. The pic is supposed to be in the post. .......... not a link you have to click to get the pic.
I had trouble attaching a pic to a post today also. Must be something wrong with the forum.
PCGS appears to have added a button to the top row when you are posting. You can attach a file, or attach an image. To attach an image use the far right button / drop down - it will say "Attach Image."
I had the same problem this morning. PCGS may have changed this last night?
W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
@WDP
Thanks again, I got your message in the other discussion.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
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I've always felt like I could drive faster than the posted speed limit. Too bad cops didn't agree...
Yeah, what we feel is correct and what actually is often are different!
Don't know the answer here but I also will not guess...hopefully someone with knowledge will chime in.
A quick Internet search for "Internet Photo Copyright Infringement" will yield an entire evening's worth of reading. Consider the sources, but basically, if you do not specifically ask for and receive permission to use a photo, you are probably in violation of copyright law. While you won't usually be prosecuted, you could be, and you'll be grasping at straws trying to find a valid defense that will pass muster. Certain lawyers make a living doing nothing but pursuing this sort of stuff.
To answer the OP's question, you need permission of the OWNER of the photo to use it. Uploading a photo to a server does not transfer copyright of the photo.
My question having, been a 'photographer' decades ago is............
the photo needs to be "copyrighted", officially correct ?
BUT the last time I checked you had one year after the photo to send it in for copyright.
I also think that there needs to be some marking on the photo such as {the c within the circle} to indicate this.
Just my old mind thinking.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
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Photos by law belong to those who took them. Photographers do not have to register for copyright protection. To pursue a copyright violation photographer will need two things: Proof the pic is his and proof the offender used the pic for personal or financial gain.
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
About the only exception to copyright is called "fair use". Courts have generally held that if the purpose of the publication of copyrighted material is for the good of the public -- say, for teaching or critiquing, researching, news reporting, etc., then not acquiring permission from the copyright holder (the owner) is acceptable.
It's a fine line and one I wouldn't cross.
Lance.
Thanks @derryb and @lkeigwin for your info.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
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No you can not use them as the photos are the property of the copyright holder, usually the photographer.
I quess all Trueviews belong to Phil.
You are thinking about registering a copyright which is different then having a copyright to the photo which happens when the photo is taken.
If you resister your copyright then you can sue for punitive damages as well as usages fees. No registering and you can only sue for usage fees.
Just take a picture of the picture and it's now your copyrighted picture. Easy peasy!
I think derryb is correct but both things he mentions are difficult to prove, unless you are bringing in some serious cash for using someone's photo I doubt you will have a problem, sure the straight lined, never go over the speed limit, never j walk, always wait 10 seconds after a railroad crossing goes up kind of people are probably having a coronary reading this but if you're going 5 over the limit, you're fine. I personally go 9 over, haven't had a ticket in years. Live on the wild side is my motto. Pictures on the inter web is like the wild wild west. Just my 2 pennies
@nk1nk has some valid points here.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
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Stealing is NEVER fine. It harms somebody.
Speeding a little bit over the speed limit if your are safe harms no one.
there is such a high likelihood that you won't know the owner of most photos you will come across that this is all much ado about nothing.
Error on coins Do you leave dollar bills on the sidewalk when you see them or what about coins in coinstar machines? If the pictures aren't marked they are simply dropped coins along the way of life, if I come along and see them I'm picking them up. If that makes me a thief so be it
I agree, from my experience they _must _have a copyright mark although I am not a lawyer.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Since adoption of the Berne convention in 1988, photos do not need to display a symbol to be copyrighted. They are the intellectual property of the photographer from the moment the image is captured.
Some of y'all are grasping in the dark. A few minutes of poking around Google or a photography forum will give you actual answers.
You do not need to prove financial gain or malicious intent to successfully litigate against offenders.
So you want this ...
You do realize that many photos have embedded copyrights that are not visible.
That's perfect! I know that belongs to someone and I won't "steal" it
Trust me when I say that I am just speaking from MY past experience and I assure you that I am not _ grasping in the dark_
I DO however genuinely appreciate your contribution to my own education.
Thanks
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
An image is copyrighted to the photographer the instant they push the shutter button. It becomes intellectual property and is owned by the creator. The photographer does not need to add a copyright logo to the image nor do they need to register it. Adding a copyright logo does give the message to everyone that the creator of the image does not want the image used without their permission.
Proving if an image is an original created by a photographer is simple if that photographer is shooting in a RAW format. RAW format is the digital equivalent of a film negative. Any non visible copyright tag that is added to a photograph using metadata can easily be bi-passed or altered down the road. A RAW image cannot be modified that way without creating an alternate version of it, which is why a RAW image is the best security against copyright infringement.
As far as Phil, owning the copyrights to all the TrueView images, he does not. PCGS owns the copyrights to them as they are Phil's employer. PCGS has entered into a contract to have Phil and any other PCGS photo member to photograph the coins on behalf of PCGS.
When a member sends a coin in for grading and requests and pays for a TrueView image to be taken, then that member is given a "Usage" license to use the TrueView image taken by PCGS as the member see's fit. PCGS still retains the copyright and the ability to use that TrueView image anyway they would like. In this case there are essentially two copyright holders for the image, PCGS and the member that commissioned PCGS to image their coin.
Some images are put out as a free for all. Anyone is allowed to use the image in any way they want. Some photographers might not care that their images are being used without their permission. Typically the only time using someones image without their permission becomes an issue is when the owner becomes aware of it and files criminal or civil suites, which can happen at any time. So when it doubt, don't use it, or ask the owner's permission.
The copyright is valid at the moment of creation; however, without registration at the time of creation or a narrow window thereafter, damages are limited to actual damages which would be minimal and almost non-existent in most cases. Registration could occur later, but statutory damages and attorney's fees would be unavailable for pre-registration violations. See 17 U.S.C. 412.
Photographers retain their rights to photos posted here. However, under the terms of use of the message board, they are also granting PCGS, but not other parties, a license to reuse them.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Thank you jtlee for an excellent and most importantly, accurate, summary. Typically if you use an image without proper permission the worst result is that you will be told to cease using it. However, depending on your use and the aggrieved photographer the outcome could be much worse and I don't believe is worth risking it.
Cameonut,
I would agree with your statement as it agrees with what I find in reputable sources. I am no professional photographer and I'm certainly not well-versed in the law. Damages would often be minimal, especially if one only "borrows" photos for collector or hobby purposes, but there is plenty of high-dollar business conducted in numismatics that relies heavily on photography.
This subject comes up every few years and there's usually a mix of misinformation, partial information, disdain for intellectual property rights, and such. More than one contributor to this thread was headed this direction this time.
If you are accused of infringing on a copyright, someone with an axe to grind can drag you through the legal process, even if you are eventually cleared. When in doubt, don't steal the work of others. If you're doing photography professionally or it involves issues of significant financial investment, it would of course be wise to register the work.
Just recently, I've requested permission to use photos from PCGS, NGC and Heritage Auctions in an article I'm writing about foreign specimen coins. PCGS and Heritage have both graciously agreed. NGC has declined, and I'm going to respect that.
Good information here,... and it is unlikely that I will ever be in violation of photographic copyright law....
.... I did take a picture of a squirrel on my bird feeder the other day - so now, as I understand it, I am the proud owner of a copyrighted picture of an acrobatic tree rat.... 
... Awesome... Cheers, RickO
Is there a statue of time limitations for photo copyright laws, similar to Patents?
Life of the author plus 70 years
There is a 3 year civil statute of limitations to bring a lawsuit against an infringer.
Good responses that validate copyright authority to the author. I have, at times, modified images to prevent people from running with them without permission.
the copyright and trademark office has actual readable to the average joe info on copyright protection.