Fred, always thought you were a "Jim Morrison lives" - type a guy.
Well, I did share screen time with Keith Morrison. (Screenshot of fade in from Morrison to me on a "Dateline" murder mystery as Morrison interviewed me in my real life role as a juror.)
@WoodenJefferson said:
The author who penned this ditty mentions 'bourse floor' I was wondering in Johnny Cash would know this terminology as I read where Jay Johnson was an avid coin collector and a rather colorful character to boot.
I went back and reread the OP's posts and failed to find a specific reference to "bourse floor." Is that from another thread?
Of course the time lines don't match, but there is some irony there that the two Jay Johnsons shared the same name, and even middle initial if I recall correctly.
@WoodenJefferson said:
The author who penned this ditty mentions 'bourse floor' I was wondering in Johnny Cash would know this terminology as I read where Jay Johnson was an avid coin collector and a rather colorful character to boot.
I went back and reread the OP's posts and failed to find a specific reference to "bourse floor." Is that from another thread?
Go back to the 4th jerry1 entry post, the OP included a link to the hand written lyrics.
Your'e right....my older brother & I listened
to Elvis, Do-Wop groups, all the great late 50's music...
My 60's choices were (among many many more) Dylan,
Steppenwolf, The Doors, Hendrix, Beach Boys, Creedence
Clearwater, Jefferson Airplane, Beatles, Stones, etc.
(I'm going to feel bad later that I didn't list other singers and groups I listed to
on the radio, and bought their albums)!
Being from LA, I got to see a decent number of those groups
up in Hollywood (mostly) during the mid-late '60's.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
Rightly or wrongly Jerry1,
I will now forever associate Jay Johnson, Johnny Cash and the strikings of those three known die pairings 2000 era State 25c / Saq $ Mules.
I can't help it, it just make sense to me.
Very cool, thought provoking estate sale find !
Lindy
@Jerry1 said:
I've got information to discuss about the history of the Sacagawea mule coin, and I've been looking for a forum to do so. Maybe this is it, but I've been disappointed before on this topic. I've presented this information to officers of the Dept. Of the Treasury and to the FBI with no resulting interest on their part.
The beginning of the story is this. I saw a sign stating "Estate Sale". Didn't know it at the time, but it was a sale of the property of the widow of Mr. Jay Johnson, deceased director of the U.S. Mint, appointed to that position by President Clinton. Mr. Johnson served as Director for only a year before being, in effect, fired. It was during his tenure as Director that the Golden Dollar (Sacagewea Dollar) was minted, and the Sacagewea error coin was produced. Now do this: do an internet search for the Biographical Directory of the United States Congress, Johnson, Jay W. You'll find the biography of Mr. Johnson, Representative from Wisconsin, listing his accomplishments until his death in 2009. No mention of what I would think would be the highlight of his life, an appointment by a sitting U.S. President to direct a critical part of our government.
Ok, maybe no one cares, so I'll give you a little more. What I purchased at the sale was a Johnny Cash songbook. I play guitar and this was a book of his songs with lyrics, chords, etc. Within the pages were addition items including a Time magazine with Johnny Cash on the cover (shortly after his death) and a mailing label in the name of Jay Johnson, and hand written lyrics written on the blank side of mint inventory paper. The lyrics were written to the tune of a popular Johnny Cash song. On the inside cover of the song book is an inscription "To Jay Johnson, Sincerely Johnny Cash"
The real intrigue of this story is in the hand written lyrics. Phrases such as "I know that error coins are hard to find. So I had some made up at that mint of mine. I sort of got into a little bind, But I still love that mule of mine." And, "We thought we'd sell more Gold Dollars that way. And after all - who'd blame old Jay."
Got anyone's interest? Just let me add that it took awhile for me to put this into context afterI first read it. I'm not a coin collector so I was confused. Mules, Johnny Cash? Ya, they go together I thought. But reference to "that mint of mine" didn't make sense until I looked up the definition of "mule", and then found out who Jay Johnson was. WOW!!!! This is big I thought, but here we are today over two years later and I'm still looking for anyone's interest. What about you? I'm getting old and don't want this to be buried with me. The world needs to know. Any comments or opinions on how or where to expose this information would be appreciated. Thank you
One of the first things you should try to do is
figure out whose handwriting it is - Jay's or Johnny's....
Assuming it is either one of their hands that wrote those
lyrics - and it could have been JC's....it was written as a
song/poem with 'tongue-in-check'.
They were friendly, knew each other, and one of them
wrote those words down as a 'fun' thing to do - knowing
the background of Johnson as Mint Director, they could
have been talking to each other about what they do, and
one 'em said "Hey, I can write a short song about those
Mule things that came out while you were Mint Director".
I believe that could have happened, but I do not believe
that Jay Johnson had anything to do with the Mules
being made on purpose.
I'd think the written words would be worth alot more if
they were from Johnny Cash instead of Johnson.....obviously.
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
@WoodenJefferson said:
The author who penned this ditty mentions 'bourse floor' I was wondering in Johnny Cash would know this terminology as I read where Jay Johnson was an avid coin collector and a rather colorful character to boot.
I went back and reread the OP's posts and failed to find a specific reference to "bourse floor." Is that from another thread?
Go back to the 4th jerry1 entry post, the OP included a link to the hand written lyrics.
Thanks. I completely missed that the OP had provided us the handwritten copy of the lyrics in their entirety. Although not discussed, I found the included line stating, "I guess that's why they made me leave the mint" as quite intriguing.
To the OP - I think if you are going to pursue this you need more information on all of the surrounding circumstances that led to Jay Johnson's firing from the mint. Looks like that "Freedom of Information Request" suggestion might be your next step.
My sense at this point is if those lyrics were written by Johnny Cash then they were probably being put together in fun, as Fred suggests. Authored by Johnson himself though, maybe there is some self-confession going on if only in the sense of sharing the blame for an unfortunate incident that happened under his watch. If I read his bio correctly, there was about a two year period between his being fired from the mint and getting a new job. That is a lot of time to have to reflect on what was likely a traumatic experience of getting fired, and it could well be that there was some soul searching going on in his mind.
I have Johnson's autograph somewhere, but it will have to wait until I unpack from my latest move.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@WoodenJefferson said:
The author who penned this ditty mentions 'bourse floor' I was wondering in Johnny Cash would know this terminology as I read where Jay Johnson was an avid coin collector and a rather colorful character to boot.
Woodenjefferson and others-
Thank you for your observation. I've always skimmed over that phrase because I didn't know the word "bourse". I've always seen it as "house", but "bourse" fits perfectly.
People have wondered why I didn't release everything at once. It was for this very reason. I hoped people would examine the lyrics carefully, maybe look at them differently then I have, and offer their insight into how and why they might exist.
I'll be posting page two this week. Thank you everyone for your help.
You have a good question. From Wikipedia (Sacagawea Dollar Mule Coin):
"A subsequent federal investigation into the incident found that the error coins had been struck accidentally, but two former Mint employees were guilty of selling some of the dollars, resulting in imprisonment and fines for both individuals."
Who conducted the "federal investigation" and where can anyone get a copy? I requested a copy or anything related from the Mint archive or media office (I'd have to look for the email for the office title) and received a reply that nothing was available. Further, if I remember correctly the two individuals imprisoned were press operators.
I'm attempting to post two photos; one of the inside cover of the Johnny Cash Song Book, and one of the mailing label on the September 22, 2003 issue of Time magazine. If they don't appear with this post I'll try again tomorrow.
Found my 2001 Redbook given out at the 2000 ANA Banquet in Philadelphia, that I had autographed by Glenna Goodacre, Thomas D. Rogers, Sr. and "Jay W. Johnson U.S. Mint Director." FWIW, the "John" of Johnson is an almost exact duplicate of the"John" of "Johnny." I am not a handwriting expert, but in my opinion Johnson signed Johnny Cash's name.
That said, the writing of the lyrics looks nothing at all like Johnson's penmanship.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Comments
Interesting
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
The hand writing kind of resembles Johnny Cash's autograph writing. I wonder if PSA could help with identification.
Well, I did share screen time with Keith Morrison. (Screenshot of fade in from Morrison to me on a "Dateline" murder mystery as Morrison interviewed me in my real life role as a juror.)
I went back and reread the OP's posts and failed to find a specific reference to "bourse floor." Is that from another thread?
Of course the time lines don't match, but there is some irony there that the two Jay Johnsons shared the same name, and even middle initial if I recall correctly.
Go back to the 4th jerry1 entry post, the OP included a link to the hand written lyrics.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Your'e right....my older brother & I listened
to Elvis, Do-Wop groups, all the great late 50's music...
My 60's choices were (among many many more) Dylan,
Steppenwolf, The Doors, Hendrix, Beach Boys, Creedence
Clearwater, Jefferson Airplane, Beatles, Stones, etc.
(I'm going to feel bad later that I didn't list other singers and groups I listed to
on the radio, and bought their albums)!
Being from LA, I got to see a decent number of those groups
up in Hollywood (mostly) during the mid-late '60's.
Rightly or wrongly Jerry1,
I will now forever associate Jay Johnson, Johnny Cash and the strikings of those three known die pairings 2000 era State 25c / Saq $ Mules.
I can't help it, it just make sense to me.
Very cool, thought provoking estate sale find !
Lindy
One of the first things you should try to do is
figure out whose handwriting it is - Jay's or Johnny's....
Assuming it is either one of their hands that wrote those
lyrics - and it could have been JC's....it was written as a
song/poem with 'tongue-in-check'.
They were friendly, knew each other, and one of them
wrote those words down as a 'fun' thing to do - knowing
the background of Johnson as Mint Director, they could
have been talking to each other about what they do, and
one 'em said "Hey, I can write a short song about those
Mule things that came out while you were Mint Director".
I believe that could have happened, but I do not believe
that Jay Johnson had anything to do with the Mules
being made on purpose.
I'd think the written words would be worth alot more if
they were from Johnny Cash instead of Johnson.....obviously.
Thanks. I completely missed that the OP had provided us the handwritten copy of the lyrics in their entirety. Although not discussed, I found the included line stating, "I guess that's why they made me leave the mint" as quite intriguing.
To the OP - I think if you are going to pursue this you need more information on all of the surrounding circumstances that led to Jay Johnson's firing from the mint. Looks like that "Freedom of Information Request" suggestion might be your next step.
My sense at this point is if those lyrics were written by Johnny Cash then they were probably being put together in fun, as Fred suggests. Authored by Johnson himself though, maybe there is some self-confession going on if only in the sense of sharing the blame for an unfortunate incident that happened under his watch. If I read his bio correctly, there was about a two year period between his being fired from the mint and getting a new job. That is a lot of time to have to reflect on what was likely a traumatic experience of getting fired, and it could well be that there was some soul searching going on in his mind.
I too had missed the posting of the lyrics.
I have Johnson's autograph somewhere, but it will have to wait until I unpack from my latest move.
Reading this thread got me to thinking of a new song titled"A Boy Named Mule".
"Reading this thread got me to thinking of a new song titled"A Boy Named Mule"."
Woodenjefferson and others-
Thank you for your observation. I've always skimmed over that phrase because I didn't know the word "bourse". I've always seen it as "house", but "bourse" fits perfectly.
People have wondered why I didn't release everything at once. It was for this very reason. I hoped people would examine the lyrics carefully, maybe look at them differently then I have, and offer their insight into how and why they might exist.
I'll be posting page two this week. Thank you everyone for your help.
Triple Lindied
Found my 2001 Redbook given out at the 2000 ANA Banquet in Philadelphia, that I had autographed by Glenna Goodacre, Thomas D. Rogers, Sr. and "Jay W. Johnson U.S. Mint Director." FWIW, the "John" of Johnson is an almost exact duplicate of the"John" of "Johnny." I am not a handwriting expert, but in my opinion Johnson signed Johnny Cash's name.
That said, the writing of the lyrics looks nothing at all like Johnson's penmanship.
TD