Bounced checks from buyers of numismatics

logger7 · January 23, 2017 12:00PM

I just went through a six month process of trying to get a deadbeat to honor a bad check, it bounced three times, endless excuses. Fortunately my police department was able to get an arrest warrant issued against him though he is in Washington state. He was rattled enough to come forward with payment. A vest pocket dealer went through a lot of pain and aggravation with a show dealer who gave him a back check, his police weren't willing to follow up with tougher actions. How have others dealt with this successfully?

lkeigwin · January 23, 2017 12:21PM

The only time it happened to me was with a buyer in FL ten or twelve years ago. I waited two weeks to ship the gold coin to be sure the check didn't bounce. It bounced at three weeks.

The buyer ignored my emails and snail mail. I wrote to his police dept, the FL state attorney general, the postmaster's office, etc. No one was interested.

I was tempted to accept my redneck brother-in-law's offer to make a personal visit with a couple of his northern FL buddies.
Lance.

AUandAG · January 23, 2017 12:36PM

Many of you know this trick but for those that don't. Call the perps bank and ask for bookkeeping. Then tell them that so and so has given you a check and it bounced. Then ask them when he normally deposits his paycheck or other income check. They will likely tell you on "Fridays" or "every other Friday" or such. Then make sure that you present the check on the same day as his income. Likely it will go through.

bob:)

coindeuce · January 23, 2017 12:40PM

In the good old days, when a dealer bounced a check on another dealer from a show purchase, it was almost inevitable that the bad check would be on display for all to see at the next show, and from anecdotes shared with me, it was a very effective method for getting a quick resolution. It would probably work just as well today, even if it were a check from a non-dealer, especially if you had a photograph of the offender to go along with the bad check. Word travels like wildfire in the numismatic community when it pertains to negative news.
lkeigwin - social media can do wonders with deadbeats today.

ctf_error_coins · January 23, 2017 12:42PM

Paypal offers a fantastic service.

No worries.

ksuscott · January 23, 2017 12:50PM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Paypal offers a fantastic service.

No worries.

Just had my first paypal charge back. It's the credit card company that determines if I get my money back or not. Still waiting to see...

asheland · January 23, 2017 12:55PM

Cash always works for me.

PerryHall · January 23, 2017 1:01PM

@coindeuce said:
In the good old days, when a dealer bounced a check on another dealer from a show purchase, it was almost inevitable that the bad check would be on display for all to see at the next show, and from anecdotes shared with me, it was a very effective method for getting a quick resolution. It would probably work just as well today, even if it were a check from a non-dealer, especially if you had a photograph of the offender to go along with the bad check. Word travels like wildfire in the numismatic community when it pertains to negative news.
lkeigwin - social media can do wonders with deadbeats today.

I remember a coin dealer friend who got a bad check from a major dealer. He wrote "BAD" across the front of the check using a red magic marker and then put the check in his display case at a major show. It didn't take long for the other dealer to get word of this and to run up to buy his check back with a fist full of cash.

oih82w8 · January 23, 2017 1:03PM

I have seen a few dealers showcases with bounced checks displayed for all to see.

I can say that it has not happened to me (fortunately) on either side of the buy/sell.

BAJJERFAN · January 23, 2017 1:08PM

@AUandAG said:
Many of you know this trick but for those that don't. Call the perps bank and ask for bookkeeping. Then tell them that so and so has given you a check and it bounced. Then ask them when he normally deposits his paycheck or other income check. They will likely tell you on "Fridays" or "every other Friday" or such. Then make sure that you present the check on the same day as his income. Likely it will go through.

bob:)

Can the bank legally do that? I have a SIL who had a bank teller inform her of when a bad check writer got his deposit and she was there on time to collect.

BAJJERFAN · January 23, 2017 1:09PM

Also, Holder in Due Course!

safechecks.com/articles/files/holder-in-due-course-and-check-fraud.html

coindeuce · January 23, 2017 1:12PM

@AUandAG said:
Many of you know this trick but for those that don't. Call the perps bank and ask for bookkeeping. Then tell them that so and so has given you a check and it bounced. Then ask them when he normally deposits his paycheck or other income check. They will likely tell you on "Fridays" or "every other Friday" or such. Then make sure that you present the check on the same day as his income. Likely it will go through.

bob:)

Nice suggestion, but it would only be effective if one was physically present at a branch of the bank used by the check issuer, and you were able to verify that the account from which the check is drawn has sufficient funds in it.
Even if one is present at a branch of the check issuer's bank, they will not provide any specific information such as whether or not the check you are presenting is covered by the issuer's current balance.
Presenting a check for payment to a bank other than the bank that the check is drawn on takes at the very least 24 hours to pass through a clearinghouse, and in the case of an interstate transaction 48 to 72 hours.

mustangmanbob · January 23, 2017 1:17PM

What is the thing called a "Check" ? does it look somewhat like this: /

logger7 · January 23, 2017 1:23PM

The only thing I have found banks from check writers will say is whether a certain amount would clear at that point in time, not whether a check had cleared, etc.. Plus the guy had a credit union, he was a "disabled veteran" used endless excuses of why he wasn't able to take care of the problem, etc.. I guess you could try to pull a Jim Rockford and impersonate a government official, etc..

lkeigwin · January 23, 2017 2:00PM

My (non-coin) business got a bad check once from a customer. I tried a few times to put it through, to no avail. NSF each time.

And then I remembered the fellow told me he had a small jewelry store in an out-of-the-way, rural area. So I waited until a week before Christmas and the check cleared.

I hope his rent check bounced.
Lance.

ranshdow · January 23, 2017 2:20PM

@BAJJERFAN said:

@AUandAG said:
Many of you know this trick but for those that don't. Call the perps bank and ask for bookkeeping.

Can the bank legally do that? I have a SIL who had a bank teller inform her of when a bad check writer got his deposit and she was there on time to collect.

My bank recently disclosed my account and brokerage balances to a family member who went in to open an account of their own, so unacceptable stuff does happen, at least at some coughstagecoachcough places. If it wasn't for my SDB I would have left already.

mingot · January 23, 2017 2:23PM

I used to have a customer (not coin related) who had a history of writing me bad checks. I started taking them to his bank to get certified funds. If there was not money they told me. If their was, they called him and verified and I got a certified check. It beat having it come back as NSF and it also put the guy on notice so he quit bothering trying to give me money if it was not in the bank that day.

BAJJERFAN · January 23, 2017 2:29PM

@coindeuce said:

@AUandAG said:
Many of you know this trick but for those that don't. Call the perps bank and ask for bookkeeping. Then tell them that so and so has given you a check and it bounced. Then ask them when he normally deposits his paycheck or other income check. They will likely tell you on "Fridays" or "every other Friday" or such. Then make sure that you present the check on the same day as his income. Likely it will go through.

bob:)

Nice suggestion, but it would only be effective if one was physically present at a branch of the bank used by the check issuer, and you were able to verify that the account from which the check is drawn has sufficient funds in it.
Even if one is present at a branch of the check issuer's bank, they will not provide any specific information such as whether or not the check you are presenting is covered by the issuer's current balance.
Presenting a check for payment to a bank other than the bank that the check is drawn on takes at the very least 24 hours to pass through a clearinghouse, and in the case of an interstate transaction 48 to 72 hours.

Didn't they institute virtually instantaneous clearing a number of years ago?

Type2 · January 23, 2017 2:54PM

I talked with my banker about this once and what sucks is he said any one can say it was fraud and they can return a check months after it clears. Now that made me think I like cash more a lot more now.

logger7 · January 23, 2017 3:12PM

I spoke with my BoA banker and they said they had a month to return checks which defies business sense; commerce would grind to a halt if those types of eventualities were permitted. They are rare cases, but still it undermines commerce to not know for sure that funds are good.

mkman123 · January 23, 2017 3:17PM

Most of the time on the BST I try and only accept money orders especially USPS money orders vs things like checks

BAJJERFAN · January 23, 2017 3:39PM

@Type2 said:
I talked with my banker about this once and what sucks is he said any one can say it was fraud and they can return a check months after it clears. Now that made me think I like cash more a lot more now.

There would have to be some proof involved, no?

MrHalfDime · January 23, 2017 3:44PM

I had this happen to me several years ago in my non-numismatic business, and I found a clever way around it. A client had mailed me a check as payment for an invoice, and it was returned by his bank as NSF. I went to his bank (or a nearby branch of the same bank) and inquired what was the balance in his account. The teller informed me that they were not at liberty to disclose that information, and told me that my only recourse was to re-deposit the check a second time. I knew that any check can only be deposited two times, and if it came back NSF a second time I was essentially out of luck; it could not be deposited again. The teller stated that she could only tell me if the account had sufficient balance to cover the check, but could not divulge the account balance, and seemed curious as to why I would want to know the actual account balance. I told her that if the account balance was close to the amount of the check, I would be happy to make a deposit to that account for the difference myself, thereby allowing the check to clear. Since the check was for several thousand dollars, I inquired if a deposit of say $100 would provide the required balance. She thought for a bit, checked her computer, smiled, and said that she could confirm that. So I deposited $100 of my own money into his account, re-deposited the client's check, and walked away with my money, or the better part of it. Having something is always better than having nothing.

thebeav · January 23, 2017 3:46PM

@ksuscott said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Paypal offers a fantastic service.

No worries.

Just had my first paypal charge back. It's the credit card company that determines if I get my money back or not. Still waiting to see...

I've had a couple of those. Not only do you lose that money, but Paypal slaps a twenty-five dollar fee on YOU. It's a beautiful system.

CascadeChris · January 23, 2017 3:55PM

@MrHalfDime said:
I had this happen to me several years ago in my non-numismatic business, and I found a clever way around it. A client had mailed me a check as payment for an invoice, and it was returned by his bank as NSF. I went to his bank (or a nearby branch of the same bank) and inquired what was the balance in his account. The teller informed me that they were not at liberty to disclose that information, and told me that my only recourse was to re-deposit the check a second time. I knew that any check can only be deposited two times, and if it came back NSF a second time I was essentially out of luck; it could not be deposited again. The teller stated that she could only tell me if the account had sufficient balance to cover the check, but could not divulge the account balance, and seemed curious as to why I would want to know the actual account balance. I told her that if the account balance was close to the amount of the check, I would be happy to make a deposit to that account for the difference myself, thereby allowing the check to clear. Since the check was for several thousand dollars, I inquired if a deposit of say $100 would provide the required balance. She thought for a bit, checked her computer, smiled, and said that she could confirm that. So I deposited $100 of my own money into his account, re-deposited the client's check, and walked away with my money, or the better part of it. Having something is always better than having nothing.

Now that's the kind of outside-the-box thinking I'm a master of. Kudos for thinking of it

Bochiman · January 23, 2017 3:59PM

As someone in Washington State myself, I really would like to know who this person was....

Was it off ebay? Off these boards? I don't mind taking checks from people I know, but, unless I know them very well, I will wait for funds to clear before sending anything off (unless I don't get bad vibes anyway and the amount is pretty low)

coindeuce · January 23, 2017 7:10PM

@BAJJERFAN said:

@coindeuce said:

@AUandAG said:
Many of you know this trick but for those that don't. Call the perps bank and ask for bookkeeping. Then tell them that so and so has given you a check and it bounced. Then ask them when he normally deposits his paycheck or other income check. They will likely tell you on "Fridays" or "every other Friday" or such. Then make sure that you present the check on the same day as his income. Likely it will go through.

bob:)

Nice suggestion, but it would only be effective if one was physically present at a branch of the bank used by the check issuer, and you were able to verify that the account from which the check is drawn has sufficient funds in it.
Even if one is present at a branch of the check issuer's bank, they will not provide any specific information such as whether or not the check you are presenting is covered by the issuer's current balance.
Presenting a check for payment to a bank other than the bank that the check is drawn on takes at the very least 24 hours to pass through a clearinghouse, and in the case of an interstate transaction 48 to 72 hours.

Didn't they institute virtually instantaneous clearing a number of years ago?

Some of the larger commercial institutions have advanced to a digital processing network to eliminate the "float", but the cost of the infrastructure to many banks (those poor, poor corporations) has limited that progress.

BAJJERFAN · January 23, 2017 7:44PM

@MrHalfDime said:
I had this happen to me several years ago in my non-numismatic business, and I found a clever way around it. A client had mailed me a check as payment for an invoice, and it was returned by his bank as NSF. I went to his bank (or a nearby branch of the same bank) and inquired what was the balance in his account. The teller informed me that they were not at liberty to disclose that information, and told me that my only recourse was to re-deposit the check a second time. I knew that any check can only be deposited two times, and if it came back NSF a second time I was essentially out of luck; it could not be deposited again. The teller stated that she could only tell me if the account had sufficient balance to cover the check, but could not divulge the account balance, and seemed curious as to why I would want to know the actual account balance. I told her that if the account balance was close to the amount of the check, I would be happy to make a deposit to that account for the difference myself, thereby allowing the check to clear. Since the check was for several thousand dollars, I inquired if a deposit of say $100 would provide the required balance. She thought for a bit, checked her computer, smiled, and said that she could confirm that. So I deposited $100 of my own money into his account, re-deposited the client's check, and walked away with my money, or the better part of it. Having something is always better than having nothing.

Quite clever. Good for you.

roadrunner · January 23, 2017 8:10PM

@lkeigwin said:
The only time it happened to me was with a buyer in FL ten or twelve years ago. I waited two weeks to ship the gold coin to be sure the check didn't bounce. It bounced at three weeks.

The buyer ignored my emails and snail mail. I wrote to his police dept, the FL state attorney general, the postmaster's office, etc. No one was interested.

I was tempted to accept my redneck brother-in-law's offer to make a personal visit with a couple of his northern FL buddies.
Lance.

This was my experience too. If you're trying to get the police to act on an out of state claim, well, good luck with that. They are more interested in their own citizens then some "rich" coin collector thousands of miles away. Better hope your claim is against an in-state party or business. Consider yourself one of the lucky few if you got the USPS, internet crimes, AG's, Consumer Protection, law enforcement, to act on out of state claims under $20K.

AMRC · January 23, 2017 8:11PM

This is always a big risk. I have had only one check come back on me from what was a big time dealer at the time. It eventually cleared, but I have not taken one from them ever since. I will still buy from them, just not sell. At Long Beach you can just "ask around" when in doubt. That is by far the best system to date! :-)

Jinx86 · January 23, 2017 8:21PM

Only time I've had anything close to this was a few years back when I had a dealer mail a check back to me. I had forgot to sign it.

airplanenut · January 23, 2017 8:30PM

I had a payment for some photographs bounce (I was late in depositing it, so I no longer had the coins as collateral) and the customer went silent. Luckily he used a major bank, so I went to a branch where they looked up his activity and figured out which day he got an automatic deposit, followed the next day by a withdrawal. We set up a time for me to go before he had a chance to move the funds, and they used his bad check to write me a cashier's check from his account while it still had funds. I spent way too much time getting that money, but at a certain point I was too invested and determined to not let him win.

derryb · January 23, 2017 10:15PM

Checks are the riskiest form of payment. Why even accept them?

kalshacon · January 23, 2017 10:37PM

The very first coin show I set up at was the Inland Empire Coin Show in Spokane in 2006. I had managed to talk my wife into attending with me (the last time she did!) and I was excited to start doing some "real business" with the other dealers.

I had a box of Rattler Morgans, all common date MS64's, about 40 of them. The very first dealer that stopped at my table was a "big" dealer from Seattle (I can't even recall the name of the shop or the dealer) who made me an offer on all of them. I was very happy to accept his offer and he whipped out a very official looking portfolio checkbook and started to write a check.

My wife motioned me over and whispered; "Are you sure that you should take a check for that much?" I, of course, poo-pooed her concerns and after we finished the transaction and he left I told her that this was a big dealer, yadda, yadda, this is how business is done at a coin show, etc., etc.. You can guess what happened when I got home and cashed the check, it bounced.

I made several phone calls to the dealer before I was finally able to get them to issue a new check that eventually cleared. The dealer acted put out every time we were on the phone and I still remember him attempting to make me feel like I was making this a bigger deal than it needed to be with my nagging. I still hear about it occasionally from my wife. I learned very quickly to ask around before taking a check from anyone.

I wish I could remember his name and the amount of the deal, it was slightly over $2K, I think. Took a couple of weeks, start to finish to get him to make good.

pennyannie · January 23, 2017 10:51PM

@MrHalfDime said:
I had this happen to me several years ago in my non-numismatic business, and I found a clever way around it. A client had mailed me a check as payment for an invoice, and it was returned by his bank as NSF. I went to his bank (or a nearby branch of the same bank) and inquired what was the balance in his account. The teller informed me that they were not at liberty to disclose that information, and told me that my only recourse was to re-deposit the check a second time. I knew that any check can only be deposited two times, and if it came back NSF a second time I was essentially out of luck; it could not be deposited again. The teller stated that she could only tell me if the account had sufficient balance to cover the check, but could not divulge the account balance, and seemed curious as to why I would want to know the actual account balance. I told her that if the account balance was close to the amount of the check, I would be happy to make a deposit to that account for the difference myself, thereby allowing the check to clear. Since the check was for several thousand dollars, I inquired if a deposit of say $100 would provide the required balance. She thought for a bit, checked her computer, smiled, and said that she could confirm that. So I deposited $100 of my own money into his account, re-deposited the client's check, and walked away with my money, or the better part of it. Having something is always better than having nothing.

I have done this in the past with rent checks. Most banks now will not allow you to make a deposit into an account you are not authorized on. The last time I did it they had to call my renter and get his okay. The funny part on the last one I did I deposited 25 dollars to clear a 600 dollar check. The 25 dollars did not get him to 600 but to where his overdraft would cover. He paid a pretty good penalty for that

PerryHall · January 24, 2017 4:48AM

There's a lot of great information in this thread. I learned much reading it.

OPA · January 24, 2017 5:47AM

@coindeuce said:

@BAJJERFAN said:

@coindeuce said:

@AUandAG said:
Many of you know this trick but for those that don't. Call the perps bank and ask for bookkeeping. Then tell them that so and so has given you a check and it bounced. Then ask them when he normally deposits his paycheck or other income check. They will likely tell you on "Fridays" or "every other Friday" or such. Then make sure that you present the check on the same day as his income. Likely it will go through.

bob:)

Nice suggestion, but it would only be effective if one was physically present at a branch of the bank used by the check issuer, and you were able to verify that the account from which the check is drawn has sufficient funds in it.
Even if one is present at a branch of the check issuer's bank, they will not provide any specific information such as whether or not the check you are presenting is covered by the issuer's current balance.
Presenting a check for payment to a bank other than the bank that the check is drawn on takes at the very least 24 hours to pass through a clearinghouse, and in the case of an interstate transaction 48 to 72 hours.

Didn't they institute virtually instantaneous clearing a number of years ago?

Some of the larger commercial institutions have advanced to a digital processing network to eliminate the "float", but the cost of the infrastructure to many banks (those poor, poor corporations) has limited that progress.

I believe that most of the major nationwide banks are now using it.

OPA · January 24, 2017 5:51AM

@thebeav said:

@ksuscott said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Paypal offers a fantastic service.

No worries.

Just had my first paypal charge back. It's the credit card company that determines if I get my money back or not. Still waiting to see...

I've had a couple of those. Not only do you lose that money, but Paypal slaps a twenty-five dollar fee on YOU. It's a beautiful system.

Obviously it was not an eBay sale. From personal experience, if you followed as a seller, both eBay's & PayPal's guidelines to the letter, you will be made whole. PayPal may end up "eating" the $$$.

logger7 · January 24, 2017 11:13AM

Mine was an ebay transaction for $327. Lots of aggravation, my BoA banker said I was the only one who got success through the local PD that he had heard of with the warrant. 25 years ago I went to the same police department on a bounced check for $700 for a car I had sold and since she was out of state they were dismissive.

A dealer I have spoken with about dealers and checks told me about all the dealers who had bounced checks on him who he will only take cash from now. Paul R. also said back in the "good old days" they would use the threat of physical force to collect on dead beats. Of course that is a bad idea for a lot of reasons. If law enforcement doesn't do its job what should people do since lawyers are so expensive?

cameonut2011 · January 24, 2017 11:29AM

@OPA said:

@thebeav said:

@ksuscott said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Paypal offers a fantastic service.

No worries.

Just had my first paypal charge back. It's the credit card company that determines if I get my money back or not. Still waiting to see...

I've had a couple of those. Not only do you lose that money, but Paypal slaps a twenty-five dollar fee on YOU. It's a beautiful system.

Obviously it was not an eBay sale. From personal experience, if you followed as a seller, both eBay's & PayPal's guidelines to the letter, you will be made whole. PayPal may end up "eating" the $$$.

I don't think this is correct. I believe PayPal and eBay specifically except chargebacks from the seller guarantee. What happens is that PayPal will debit your account for the amount of the chargeback if it is successful (which may have nothing to do with fact but a biased credit card company trying to appease its customer). If there is a negative balance, PayPal will turn it over to collections to try to destroy your credit score until you pay them. Of course, there is a way to fight this (by reporting it as fraud to the bureaus), but it takes a lot of work.

ctf_error_coins · January 24, 2017 11:32AM

Paypal has seller protection and will cover you if you follow their guidelines.

cameonut2011 · January 24, 2017 2:24PM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Paypal has seller protection and will cover you if you follow their guidelines.

"Seller protection does not provide protection for:
Claims, chargebacks, or reversals for items significantly not as described."

PayPal

I'm sure the SNAD standard for PayPal is just as liberal as for eBay. The buyer can say whatever he or she wants and the seller loses.

Source: https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/article/what-is-the-seller-protection-policy-and-what-items-aren’t-covered-faq1156

2ndCharter · January 24, 2017 3:16PM

Here's a real-life situation that occurred at the FUN show and I would appreciate some feedback from the anti-check crowd. While attending the FUN show, I happened upon this one dealer (who is also a PNG member) who had a coin in which I had a great deal of interest and it's someone that I have never done business with before. He quoted me a price that I could live with - low five-figures so we're not talking chump change, at least for me. I asked him if he would take a check and he said sure with the appropriate references. I rounded up a few dealers, including another PNG member to vouch for me, and the deal was done. I always do business this way as I only carry enough cash to cover my meals and other incidentals when I'm on an out-of-town trip and I've never had a problem.

Now the question - was I supposed to carry around that much cash and have to deal with a Form 8300? Paypal and credit cards aren't free and who knows if the dealer would have taken them. From the anti-check crew, do you have another alternative?

BryceM · January 24, 2017 4:05PM

While this doesn't apply to the majority of collectors, there a plenty of very large transactions that take place at a typical coin show. Checks become a necessary evil above a certain level, especially over $10k. Most people shouldn't carry that much unless they've given significant thought to the associated security issues. Wire transfers are possible but involve fees and a lot of running around.

I've written checks at plenty of shows and a handful of solid references go a LONG WAY to facilitate your ability to do this. Many dealers will also accept bullion in exchange, but establishing a fair price can introduce another sticky variable.

You can always refuse to take checks, credit cards, or anything else but it will cost you some business. The risk-reward analysis is different for everyone and every situation.

derryb · January 24, 2017 4:21PM

And don't forget the possibility of having large amounts of cash "seized" by law enforcement during your travels.

logger7 · January 24, 2017 4:46PM

Cash can be messy, checks give you a paper trail. If someone denies there was a transaction with cash, how are you going to challenge that without an invoice? The echeck, paypal and other digital options are all worth considering, which have the benefit of verifiable records. And with all the deductions in this business, taxes shouldn't be a big consideration with much greater potential risks.

OPA · January 24, 2017 4:57PM

@cameonut2011 said:

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Paypal has seller protection and will cover you if you follow their guidelines.

"Seller protection does not provide protection for:
Claims, chargebacks, or reversals for items significantly not as described."

PayPal

I'm sure the SNAD standard for PayPal is just as liberal as for eBay. The buyer can say whatever he or she wants and the seller loses.

Source: https://www.paypal.com/us/selfhelp/article/what-is-the-seller-protection-policy-and-what-items-aren’t-covered-faq1156

Like I said previously, if you follow eBay & PayPal guideline, i/e proper description, good photos, prompt shipment etc, along with the required return policy..depending on what you're selling, you are fully protected. Again, I'm speaking from experience who has gone through this routine.

LanceNewmanOCC · January 24, 2017 5:25PM

@derryb said:
Checks are the riskiest form of payment. Why even accept them?

And don't forget the possibility of having large amounts of cash "seized" by law enforcement during your travels.

would you expound?
C'mon man!
xxxxxxxxxxxxx

this part is for everyone.

the anti-check crowd is in strong force with no logical, reasonable, cost-effective, plausible alternatives. odd imo.

if you stop doing something just because you get some scrapes and bruises, you will lead a very narrow life. most of us here are WAY ahead of the game and should be able to handle some less-than-optimal scenarios.

unless i am off-base and the anti-checkers have lead perfect lives, never wronged anyone or made bad decisions.

imo, situations are case-by-case and lumping is the lazy way out. one bounced check = no more checks, ever! smh. maybe if it is a huge amount, maybe.

"life is 10% what happens to you and 90% how you react to it"

i have a lot more to say but i won't. ty for tolerating my rant.
.

mustangmanbob · January 24, 2017 5:36PM

Typical credit card fee to the seller is 3%, about the same as paypal's cut.

So, the dealer might be willing to eat the 3% to make the sale, or you and he might each eat 1.5%, whatever.

Phrase the answer: Would you accept $12,500 for this coin paying on my credit card, (and they may hold the coin until it clears).

Paypal gift is no charge to the recipient.

Many shows have an ATM on site, or it it is big enough, go to the bank and do a wire or Cashier's check.

While I have been to a significant amount of coin shows, my experience is in the automotive swap meet world.

2 things there: It is all cash, and carrying $20K or more is not uncommon, You don't even need a Tom Brady coat to carry it.

AND

Probably every third person has a gun somewhere nearby, either the sellers or buyer.

Lakesammman · January 24, 2017 6:27PM

Interesting stories!

I typically get my coins before writing the check - works for me.

derryb · January 24, 2017 8:43PM

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@derryb said:
Checks are the riskiest form of payment. Why even accept them?

And don't forget the possibility of having large amounts of cash "seized" by law enforcement during your travels.

would you expound?

Even after a check clears payment the funds can be reversed by the banks invoved. A check is nothing more than a written promise that you will get and be able to keep your money. I don't take such promises from buyers I do not know. There are far more secure methods of payment that protect me.
Civil asset forfeiture is a means by which law enforcement can take your cash by claiming they "suspect" it was gained through a crime. No charges are filed - they can legally take it. If you want it back get a good lawyer and be prepared to spend some money. It has been happening to innocent travelers across the country - consider it legal highway robbery.

Bounced checks from buyers of numismatics

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