Ebay's about to get more heavy handed

amwldcoin · January 17, 2017 10:40AM

I ended a listing a little while ago and a few minutes later received this email from ebay:

We're giving sellers a head up that we are stepping up enforcement of an important eBay policy that requires all transactions and payments to be completed through eBay. The same policy specifies that eBay member-to-member messages may not be used to request contact information.

There's a very good reason for this policy. Only transactions conducted through eBay can be covered by eBay Seller Protections and the eBay Money Back Guarantee—programs that help ensure everyone can buy and sell on eBay with confidence.

Even if a buyer requests to work with you directly, it's important for your own protection to use the methods eBay provides to personalize a transaction. For example, you can make a private offer to your buyer. You can also set up your listings to invite best offers.

We encourage you to review the details of the policy to understand what you can and can't do.

Thank you,
eBay Selling Team

Unknown · January 17, 2017 11:17AM

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davewesen · January 17, 2017 11:18AM

Did you recently have a question about item for that item you closed?

northcoin · January 17, 2017 11:21AM

No problem with that. Those have been the rules for some time now and enforcement of the rules is ultimately for the benefit of all. (Full disclosure: I am an EBay stock holder. )

CascadeChris · January 17, 2017 11:23AM

@FadeToBlack said:

There's a very good reason for this policy. Only transactions conducted through eBay can be covered by eBay Seller Protections and the eBay Money Back Guarantee—programs that help ensure everyone can buy and sell on eBay with confidence.

LOL more like "We lose how much money to fee avoidance every year???"

Exactly. Do they not realize we would have more respect for them if they just came out and said as much. Along with the also valid but ancillary reason given above of course

Unknown · January 17, 2017 11:25AM

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amwldcoin · January 17, 2017 11:25AM

@davewesen said:
Did you recently have a question about item for that item you closed?

No,I did end several coins I sold at a show Sunday and the one that prompted this email to another customer.. I will not jeopardize my ebay account by selling through the private messaging system on ebay.

LanceNewmanOCC · January 17, 2017 11:54AM

@amwldcoin said:
I will not jeopardize my ebay account by selling through the private messaging system on ebay.

+1

I have informed a few buyers when they contacted me and outright said something about avoiding ebay, within the message system and I politely informed them I do not have the desire to risk my account(s) over one transaction that is blatantly against policy.

On the other side of that coin, I have provided less obvious option(s) for contact/transacting where a price was offered that was low enough I wasn't willing to go to AND still have to pay the fees but that if we could find a way, the price would probably be doable via another venue (fee-free). Something to that effect.

Some of my simple but obscure responses did lead to outside ebay successful sales and I really appreciated the guts and creativity of those to figure it out. Doesn't happen often but probably had a 75%+ success rate.

I don't recall virtually any venue where sellers/consingors weren't permitted to leave their contact info in one form or shape or another. At the least, a sticker on the back of a slab or writing on a 2x2 with an url or phone number would be permitted. Which reminds me that every pp packing slip has my email and address and business cards etc/flyers can be sent (of which i have received many). Loyalty vs tyranny can be one of those fine lines.

If you are out at a restaurant, dept. store, grocery store etc and meet someone and make a business contact, do you owe that establishment royalties thereafter? Not quite.

There are still plenty of ebay sellers that have their store/personal contact info on a couple different personal ebay pages. Some have full page spreads. They worry about the message system and it is the least of their problems, imo but is one of a few they can restrict.

ok, enough of that.
.

DollarAfterDollar · January 17, 2017 12:00PM

The only time I end an E-Bay listing is when I sell an item privately because the bottomfeeders on E-Bay won't bid on it. I'm certain I've ended more listings in 2016 than sold. Who's fault is that?

MorganMan94 · January 17, 2017 12:07PM

Occasionally I message sellers and ask if they want to do a deal outside of Ebay but never ask the buyer as a seller.
I have gotten a wide variety of responses and made many deals that saved both of us. There are three people I keep in touch with regularly to buy from or sell to and never had a bad transaction with them.

CascadeChris · January 17, 2017 12:11PM

@MorganMan94 said:
Occasionally I message sellers and ask if they want to do a deal outside of Ebay but never ask the buyer as a seller.
I have gotten a wide variety of responses and made many deals that saved both of us. There are three people I keep in touch with regularly to buy from or sell to and never had a bad transaction with them.

Very risky. Once eBay starts sniffing around in your past messages, say if a case is opened against you for whatever reason, they may indefinitely suspend your account.

BillJones · January 17, 2017 12:15PM

I am glad that I have not had anything to do with eBay for many years. I intend to keep it that way since my wife is no longer collecting Disney items which she used to buy on that site.

MorganMan94 · January 17, 2017 12:17PM

@CascadeChris said:

@MorganMan94 said:
Occasionally I message sellers and ask if they want to do a deal outside of Ebay but never ask the buyer as a seller.
I have gotten a wide variety of responses and made many deals that saved both of us. There are three people I keep in touch with regularly to buy from or sell to and never had a bad transaction with them.

Very risky. Once eBay starts sniffing around in your past messages, say if a case is opened against you for whatever reason, they may indefinitely suspend your account.

I am not worried about that at all, with how often I have to be on the phone with customer service I am sure if they wanted to previously enforce it they could have. Usually I just attach a photo of a piece of paper with my email address and phone number.

CascadeChris · January 17, 2017 12:29PM

@MorganMan94 said:

@CascadeChris said:

@MorganMan94 said:
Occasionally I message sellers and ask if they want to do a deal outside of Ebay but never ask the buyer as a seller.
I have gotten a wide variety of responses and made many deals that saved both of us. There are three people I keep in touch with regularly to buy from or sell to and never had a bad transaction with them.

Very risky. Once eBay starts sniffing around in your past messages, say if a case is opened against you for whatever reason, they may indefinitely suspend your account.

I am not worried about that at all, with how often I have to be on the phone with customer service I am sure if they wanted to previously enforce it they could have. Usually I just attach a photo of a piece of paper with my email address and phone number.

Risky game especially if they are clamping down, but hey it's your choice. Let us know if they ever zap you.

MonsterCoinz · January 17, 2017 1:00PM

Heck, 2 of the 4 coins I bought this weekend circumvented eBay. I've seen everything from typing words out phonetically, images with emails in them, and instructions ("google my username without the numbers and contact me there") to get a deal we mutually agree on.

keets · January 17, 2017 1:00PM

I find it strange that the whole "fee avoidance" idea is acknowledged by members and yet eBay is bad for trying to enforce that. I see that sort of thing as similar to two strangers attending a coin show, having a chance meeting at a dealer's table and doing a transaction that amounts to a loss of revenue for that dealer. another example might be two customers at a Coin Shop counter realizing that one is trying to sell an item that the other wants.

try doing either one of those things and the shouting followed by the ejection will begin. I see no difference.

LindeDad · January 17, 2017 1:12PM

PM's on here aren't linked to eBay are they?

jwitten · January 17, 2017 1:21PM

I actually had a situation that probably raised a red flag the other day. I was the buyer, and the package went missing for about 10-15 days. The seller told me to open a case, which I did, and they instantly refunded me. The very next day, the coin showed up (ha!). I messaged him I could just paypal the money, which we did. Ebay probably would not be happy about it, but oh well.

LanceNewmanOCC · January 17, 2017 1:46PM

@keets said:
I see no difference.

fwiw, i see a few differences.

i've said my piece though as this is another subject thoroughly debated on this forum many times.

i just see that sharing a little bit (allowing others some freedom) gains more than that which a single transaction yields. paranoia, fear and greed usually prevent great networking.

imo, is ebay wrong for this policy. i believe i have already answered that.

it is ok to disagree though.
.

BAJJERFAN · January 17, 2017 2:08PM

@LindeDad said:
PM's on here aren't linked to eBay are they?

No.

bestday · January 17, 2017 2:16PM

@DollarAfterDollar said:
The only time I end an E-Bay listing is when I sell an item privately because the bottomfeeders on E-Bay won't bid on it. I'm certain I've ended more listings in 2016 than sold. Who's fault is that?

People now on ebay looking for deals .. regardless if someone losing on selling end
MCM was a big mover of paying off ebay, have they dropped that method of payment

seanq · January 17, 2017 2:18PM

I had a similar issue last week, I purchased a Whitman album through a Buy It Now, and with my payment I included a note asking if the seller had any others. It turned out he did have one, which I quickly agreed to purchase at the same cost. I tried several times to respond through eBay's system, asking him to either list the new album in a restricted auction or send me an additional invoice, and eBay blocked each attempt. I finally sent a generic "I would like that, please let me know how you would like to handle" note which eBay allowed to pass, and the seller contacted me directly at the email linked to my PayPal account. I have yet to figure out which words triggered the system, but at no time did I offer my contact information through their system.

bigjpst · January 17, 2017 3:02PM

I was responding to a buyer yesterday who just wanted to let me know that he would pay today. I tried to type "No problem at all.", but the word at kept causing the message box to change color with a warning about doing business outside of ebay. I guess no more typing out the word at instead of @ to trick the system.
I get a few people a year asking to do a deal outside of ebay. I think ebay is a bit paranoid about this whole issue as others have posted. I send out a business card with every package but even though I have several repeat buyers, they almost never go to my website or contact me directly. I think many people just prefer to look in one place and the security and ease of buying on ebay just makes it easier for them.

LanceNewmanOCC · January 17, 2017 3:18PM

@bigjpst said:
they almost never go to my website or contact me directly. I think many people just prefer to look in one >place and the security and ease of buying on ebay just makes it easier for them.

+++1

much to my dismay because they end up paying more usually and conversing in the ebay system pales to email, phone etc.
.

amwldcoin · January 17, 2017 6:26PM

I think ebay is starting to feel the pains of their greed. Ever since they jacked up the anchor store costs and I dropped a level my sales have gone way down. I'm sorry but I don't need 10,000 listings per month and am not going to pay $350 a month for my store subscription. Some of this is certainly due to not having everything listed all the time. But there is no doubt my visibility has been reduced since I made the move.

I have sortta in my mind done the math. Ebay would be making more money due to the final fees on my sales than the listing fees they are trying to make me pay! 6 months ago I was a gold seller and now it looks like I might not even be a silver seller! Steady over 10K per month down to less than 2k!

Glad I don't need ebay to live! EBAY...You can KISS my ARSE!

grote15 · January 17, 2017 6:40PM

I know there are sellers who have their eBay inventory linked to their store inventory, so that if the item is purchased from the store, the eBay listing ends simultaneously with message that item is no longer available. EBay can't stop you from ending listings early, either. I would just be careful about correspondence through the eBay messaging service discussing off eBay deals. Via regular PM or email is fair game.

LanceNewmanOCC · January 17, 2017 6:48PM

@amwldcoin said:
I think ebay is starting to feel the pains of their greed. Ever since they jacked up the anchor store costs and > I dropped a level my sales have gone way down. I'm sorry but I don't need 10,000 listings per month and am > not going to pay $350 a month for my store subscription.

maybe do some more math analysis?

$300 monthly, not $350. there are no listing fees unless you are doing something wrong.

idc either way, i just like running number analysis, money or no.
.

Wabbit2313 · January 17, 2017 7:15PM

They are not going to kick anyone off who sells even just a few items. I can't get them to kick sellers off who sell counterfeits and/or simply do not send the coin out.

amwldcoin · January 17, 2017 7:27PM

Maybe you need to do the math!

Anchor store...10,000 free listings I forget the exact amount but say it's $300.00 After 10,000 listings 5 cents per listing.
Previous Anchor store 2500 free listings $150 per month after 2500 5 Cents per listing

Next level down now 1000 free listings $80 per month After 10 Cents per listing.

Do the math...I am onna the sellers that is being burned by this new structure. Sure if I wanna be onna the sellers that spams ebay with the same listings week after week I could benefit...but I don't! I list a listing for 30 days and then relist at a later time. I would have over 4,000 listings on the bay now if I didn't have to pay the 10 cents per listing(not all coins) With the current structure I maintain 1,000 or so. What that boils down to is ebay raised the monthly cost of maintaining my inventory on ebay to over $100 per month! Sorry...No Can Do!

These figures are not exact as I don't feel like crunching and looking things up but the same levels I had before the change would equate an increase of more than $100 per month to maintain the same amount of listings!

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@amwldcoin said:
I think ebay is starting to feel the pains of their greed. Ever since they jacked up the anchor store costs and > I dropped a level my sales have gone way down. I'm sorry but I don't need 10,000 listings per month and am > not going to pay $350 a month for my store subscription.

maybe do some more math analysis?

$300 monthly, not $350. there are no listing fees unless you are doing something wrong.

idc either way, i just like running number analysis, money or no.
.

logger7 · January 17, 2017 7:29PM

There is all kinds of coded communications that they won't be able to decipher, lots of ways around the rules of silence. "Ou-yay ow-knay at-whay o-tay o-day. Et it-gay?"

Unless paypal starts ratting out customers who did an end round the ebay police, how will they connect the dots?

amwldcoin · January 17, 2017 7:31PM

I don't doubt that maybe what they are about to do! Hard to believe it hasn't happened yet.

@logger7 said:
There is all kinds of coded communications that they won't be able to decipher, lots of ways around the rules of silence. "Ou-yay ow-knay at-whay o-tay o-day. Et it-gay?"

Unless paypal starts ratting out customers who did an end round the ebay police, how will they connect the dots?

LanceNewmanOCC · January 17, 2017 7:53PM

@amwldcoin said:

These figures are not exact as I don't feel like crunching and looking things up but the same levels I had before the change would equate an increase of more than $100 per month to maintain the same amount of listings!

only trying to help and/or encourage.

just seemed like an extreme reaction for all you were getting out of the deal.

either way, i'm outta this one.
.

amwldcoin · January 17, 2017 8:13PM

Huh?

@LanceNewmanOCC said:

@amwldcoin said:

These figures are not exact as I don't feel like crunching and looking things up but the same levels I had before the change would equate an increase of more than $100 per month to maintain the same amount of listings!

only trying to help and/or encourage.

just seemed like an extreme reaction for all you were getting out of the deal.

either way, i'm outta this one.
.

jessewvu · January 17, 2017 8:29PM

i think eBay will completely remove their messenger service within a year or two.

cameonut2011 · January 17, 2017 11:11PM

@CascadeChris said:

@MorganMan94 said:
Occasionally I message sellers and ask if they want to do a deal outside of Ebay but never ask the buyer as a seller.
I have gotten a wide variety of responses and made many deals that saved both of us. There are three people I keep in touch with regularly to buy from or sell to and never had a bad transaction with them.

Very risky. Once eBay starts sniffing around in your past messages, say if a case is opened against you for whatever reason, they may indefinitely suspend your account.

The traffic there isn't what it once was. It would be eBay's loss IMHO.

cameonut2011 · January 17, 2017 11:16PM

@logger7 said:
There is all kinds of coded communications that they won't be able to decipher, lots of ways around the rules of silence. "Ou-yay ow-knay at-whay o-tay o-day. Et it-gay?"

Unless paypal starts ratting out customers who did an end round the ebay police, how will they connect the dots?

Since PayPal and eBay are now separate companies, wouldn't that sort of sharing violate the privacy agreements of both groups and open them up to a lawsuit?

ricko · January 18, 2017 5:34AM

Years ago I lost an auction (dropped out as the bidding went too high)....was subsequently contacted through email by a seller who had the same product he wanted to sell. Price was excellent and I purchased it. He simply got my contact information from ebay at the time.... would not be possible now... Cheers, RickO

amwldcoin · January 18, 2017 6:47AM

I don't know. Since they have the option to make an offer through the message system I have used it quite a bit. There software also used to be very good at detecting contact information and stopping users from sending it. Lately it seems they have not been flagging contact info. I suspect before they would end the messaging system they will try slapping users on wrists with temporary bans. IMHO the message system is a necessary evil for ebay.

@jessewvu said:
i think eBay will completely remove their messenger service within a year or two.

Stork · January 18, 2017 6:51AM

"an important eBay policy that requires all transactions and payments to be completed through eBay"

...now surely they don't think eBay is the ONLY venue we sell things on. Geez, that was a poorly worded sentence unless there is something buried in the listing contract that says eBay is primary over any private website/B&M/flea market booth etc and you give up all rights to private sales once you list an item.

It's one of those things that sounds stupid, until it isn't. I can see it now...my dog decides to eat a coin (don't ask) and I end a listing as the coin is no longer available and eBay starts sniffing around for a fee?

TwoSides2aCoin · January 18, 2017 7:06AM

I have a customer who buys from me on eBay, then comes to the shop to pick his winnings up. He is avoiding shipping costs and eBay loses on shipping (because they charge fees on them too) . In the end: my butt hurts.

bestday · January 18, 2017 8:21AM

Future of Ebay more of BIN... Ebay sees years down the roa> @TwoSides2aCoin said:

I have a customer who buys from me on eBay, then comes to the shop to pick his winnings up. He is avoiding shipping costs and eBay loses on shipping (because they charge fees on them too) . In the end: my butt hurts.

Do you say you make money on shipping ??

bigjpst · January 18, 2017 9:13AM

@bestday said:
Future of Ebay more of BIN... Ebay sees years down the roa> @TwoSides2aCoin said:

I have a customer who buys from me on eBay, then comes to the shop to pick his winnings up. He is avoiding shipping costs and eBay loses on shipping (because they charge fees on them too) . In the end: my butt hurts.

Do you say you make money on shipping ??

No he said ebay makes money in shipping because they now charge final value fee on shipping to combat the people who used to list items for .99c with $50 shipping.

Stork · January 18, 2017 9:44AM

@TwoSides2aCoin said:
I have a customer who buys from me on eBay, then comes to the shop to pick his winnings up. He is avoiding shipping costs and eBay loses on shipping (because they charge fees on them too) . In the end: my butt hurts.

I can see it now..

'In order to enhance customer satisfaction and to ensure member safety we will no longer allow the 'local pickup' option. All items must be shipped with tracking/signature confirmation and purchase our insurance. In the future we plan on DNA validation. Please be on the lookout...soon we are rolling out our own private delivery service that will meet all requirements, for a small increase in fees'.

asheland · January 18, 2017 10:35AM

The only good ebay experience it seems is as a buyer.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 18, 2017 10:49AM

@bestday said:
Future of Ebay more of BIN... Ebay sees years down the roa> @TwoSides2aCoin said:

I have a customer who buys from me on eBay, then comes to the shop to pick his winnings up. He is avoiding shipping costs and eBay loses on shipping (because they charge fees on them too) . In the end: my butt hurts.

Do you say you make money on shipping ??

On the contrary, I charge what it costs to ship and then eBay charges 10% on shipping charges, thus costing me even more since the fees reduce any profits I might have otherwise made. 585 pound gorillas get hungry.

Andrew99 · January 18, 2017 7:32PM

I had someone ask to buy something on layaway. There is no way to even do that in ebay, so I ended it and told him how to send me checks. Ultimately, any successful auction must result in an exchange of contact information. If ebay tries to avoid this, they will become increasingly irrelevant.

Stork · January 18, 2017 9:23PM

@Andrew99 said:
Ultimately, any successful auction must result in an exchange of contact information. If ebay tries to avoid this, they will become increasingly irrelevant.

Or, the seller will ship to a central location and eBay will ship to the buyer. Just like for their global shipping program. It only costs a small fortune. Last time I looked it was going to be something like $25 going to Japan. Insanity. All for 'our protection'.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 19, 2017 7:17AM

Welcome Andrew99. Good to interact and share our perspective.

Stork · January 19, 2017 7:35AM

Hello Andrew99...I didn't notice that was your first post. Welcome to the forums!

amwldcoin · January 19, 2017 7:38AM

I guess about the only time I break the rules is when someone wants to pay with a check. While unknown as to why to me some people can buy without paying immediately and some people can not. If they can not the only way I can sell them the coin is to end it and let them mail me a check. Ebay can be so stupid!

lkeigwin · January 19, 2017 8:06AM

@amwldcoin said:
I don't know. Since they have the option to make an offer through the message system I have used it quite a bit.

How do you make an offer through their messaging? I don't see this feature. Or do you mean "ask a question", select "other", and then send a message with an offer?

I've wondered about this because I see sellers saying "make an offer" and without the "best offer" configured.
Lance.

Ebay's about to get more heavy handed

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