@craZ4coins said:
Theoretically and morally, should it make any difference? I believe most would answer "no".
How do the "iffers" justify the disparate treatment?
For one, you have no clue if the seller was making up that consignment story. In fact, I'd lean towards a better than 50/50 odds it was made up. There's something about having someone else's coins in your bourse case that you almost always take additional care when handling/pricing them.
Theoretically and morally, it would be handled the same....IF....we knew all the facts in the case with 100% accuracy concerning the consignor, seller, and buyer. Since that's never going to happen, you make judgements. I've already been on the short end of such sticks from others in the past. Why would I give them preferential treatment next time such a deal occurs? If your moral compass is that strict, then you would turn the other cheek and set yourself up to be screwed a second time. I doubt anyone around here would allow that to happen.
The real "morality" of this situation is that the dealer either fabricated a story OR messed up big time with someone's consignment. It is more than ethically handled by the dealer stepping up and eating any losses that might have occurred. That's morality. Now if this dealer has a long history of giving rebates to customers for those times when they overcharged in error or even just quoted a higher price than intended because they though they could get away with it....then maybe we give them a pass in this situation and look for other ways to handle it.
I am not trying to hijack this thread, but the same thing happened to me in reverse. I was new to the "hobby" bought a 3 legged buffalo nickle raw from a reputable dealer in the 90's at a show in person. Got home and after studying the coin and the going prices in my new Redbook, I figured out that I paid twice the Redbook value!. My dealer friend lent me his greysheet (an old one) after that and that was even worse.. I called the dealer about a week later and asked him of I could return the coin for a refund. He laughed at me over the phone and and said "nope". "You bought it you own it"..... No offer to buy it back either. He was upset that I even called him with that request.
My point is, this is a two way street. I paid for an education on this coin. I think you were very generous Gemtone and I would much prefer doing business with a person like you!
I think the OP was fair and reasonable to amend the sales contract made and and he performed fully and completely and in good faith. The offer was made and accepted and payment in full was made. done.
The dealer handled it poorly. Make a phone call and explain the situation and request consideration for a
honest error and ask for the 1000 or some reasonable compromise. It is a request though and the dealer should be satisfied with whatever the result is. 500 that was not an obligation that was paid to offset the error was fair in this case. We all pay for our mistakes at some point I have and everyone reading these post have.
I would of offered the 500 or to retract the transaction less my actual cost be it for shipping and insurance or packaging whatever cost that may be incurred the dealer would pay.
@amwldcoin said:
This reminds me of the time when Legend set the reserve wrong on a coin....sold it at auction....delievered the coin.....then demand it's return.
Anybody ever hear the outcome of that one?
.....
No, but I betcha Laura made it right and ate the cost of Legend's mistake.
IMO, Laura is the most "stand-up" lady in the biz, heads and shoulders above all the others in terms of knowledge, business acumen and common sense. She stands as a pillar of integrity in the biz, crusades against the disgusting coin doctors and is an asset to the industry. You will never see a show report from her that looks like a travelog as she is strictly biz and a tad "earthy" (in a good sense).
I sure wish she was back posting here - it would be a breath of fresh air in a musty room!
@amwldcoin said:
This reminds me of the time when Legend set the reserve wrong on a coin....sold it at auction....delievered the coin.....then demand it's return.
Anybody ever hear the outcome of that one?
.....
No, but I betcha Laura made it right and ate the cost of Legend's mistake.
IMO, Laura is the most "stand-up" lady in the biz, heads and shoulders above all the others in terms of knowledge, business acumen and common sense. She stands as a pillar of integrity in the biz, crusades against the disgusting coin doctors and is an asset to the industry. You will never see a show report from her that looks like a travelog as she is strictly biz and a tad "earthy" (in a good sense).
I sure wish she was back posting here - it would be a breath of fresh air in a musty room!
Mistakes happen in business all of the time. I have always tried to not consider the dollar amount in deciding what is fair. Be it $500 error on a coin or an extra dollar in my hand given mistakenly by a cashier, at that moment I have to decide who I am and what I'm comfortable doing. We all set our own code of conduct and live with how it makes us feel.
If you looked at the wrong line on the graysheet, made the purchase, went home and discovered your mistake, do you think the seller would return the difference?
I can't imagine contacting someone after a sale and asking for more money. If all the info about the consignor were true and I were the seller in this situation and made such a large error, I would likely have called, said I made a mistake with the selling price and ask for it's return for a refund with some sort of compensation to the buyer for their trouble. I couldn't imagine even telling the buyer how much of a blunder or how much I stood to eat on the deal. If the buyer such as the op in this case really wanted the coin and asked for new terms, I would probably try to work out a deal in the middle like the op did in this case. If they refused, which is their right in this case, I would just eat the loss.
I had a similar situation on a much smaller scale when I first started setting up a shows. I had a coin in my case where I had a very old purchase price on the 2x2 that I forgot to update with the current pricing. It was a close to bullion value item that I purchased when silver was $10oz and at the time it was $30+. A buyer walked up and asked if that was my price and embarrassed that I made the mistake I told him I would sell it to him at that price, but if he didn't buy it then, the price would be immediately changed. He refused to buy it at the low price because he knew it was an error, but I still offered to sell it at far below market. Had he just paid the price on the 2x2 I would like to think I wouldn't have held any animosity. Since then he has come to my table at nearly every show I set up.
I think you were very fair with the dealer and should not lose any sleep over it. He did say he broke even on the coin so the 500.00 you sent were profit for him and the consignor. Maybe he did not get what he was expecting but he did not lose any money. He did make a mistake and needs to own it. As far as him being standoffish at future shows, well that is his issue. Find a coin you like in his case and have a friend deal for it on your behalf.
I can see an auto dealership sending you an invoice for another couple grand for selling you something at cost, oops sorry could you please forward my profit I forgot to add it in.
I had this exact thing happen to me. I bought a Jeep back in the 90's and the dealer mistakenly gave me 2 of the 500.00 rebates off the price of the vehicle. They sent this poor kid named Chad to the office I worked at to try and collect the money. I felt bad for him but did not (actually could not because I did not get 500.00 cash, just an additional 500.00 off the vehicle) give him anything. I was going to try to come up with it but my friends convinced me that I should not pay in honor of all those before me who had been hosed by a car dealer! So I never gave them the 500.00. Chad looked really sad when he left, maybe they had told him he could have a percentage of the $. Never saw him again.
@ElKevvo said:
I think you were very fair with the dealer and should not lose any sleep over it. He did say he broke even on the coin so the 500.00 you sent were profit for him and the consignor.
The way I read it, the dealer said it was consigned to him at $3500, and @$3500 the dealer was breaking even to his consignor and forgoing any consignment fee. Maybe the op can clarify.
Interesting scenario. I'm with the crowd that first looks at the relationship with the dealer. A good long-term relationship has built-in that you both look out for each other and in such cases no question that both parties would let the other off the hook for a mistake like this. Given the OP's sheer delight with the coin, returning it is very difficult/impossible although a reasonable alternative otherwise. I think more communication, especially direct communication was the order of the day, and that's where the ball got dropped, and now both parties are unhappy, and will never likely conduct business again; not the end of the world, but not ideal. The solution worked out by the buyer seems fair to me in many ways, but was not from an open negotiation with the other party. Had that happened, the results might have been much more palatable for all.
Many years ago, I won an auction coin via internet bid with a large auction house that was mistakenly sold to a floor bidder for the same bid. Their website said the coin was sold to someone else at that price and that I was not the high bidder. I called them and pointed out that their rules say it was my coin, because I bid that amount first.
They agreed with me, but the guy to whom they shipped the coin refused to return it to them, so I was SOL. This was a coin I was trying to find for the prior four years. Based on that, if the dealer said he made a mistake, I'd ship the coin back and get a refund.
As an aside, at a show, I saw a 24 S Buffalo Nickel in MS 65. It caught my attention because it was priced far too low. I looked at the coin, and told the dealer that he made a mistake; he had priced it as a 24 P. I could have bought the coin and flipped it, but I need to be able to live with myself.
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
I agree about the relationship with the dealer. If this was someone I had dealt with many times over the years and gotten good and honest service, I would've been pretty sure the dealer was honest about being up against it in making the mistake he made on that coin. If that were the case, for myself, I would've just said to the dealer "If I pay $1,000 more for this coin, I will be very ticked off, and if I don't pay $1,000 more for this coin, you are going to be very ticked off, so to make sure no one is ticked off, return my $2,500 and I'll return the coin and you can go sell it to someone else for $3,500, i.e., let's reverse this transaction and pretend it never happened."
To clarify, the coin was consigned at $3500, so by selling it to me at $2500 he was losing $1000. Also, as I noted in a post just a few replies above, I liked the coin too much to entertain the option of voiding the deal.
@gemtone65 said:
To clarify, the coin was consigned at $3500, so by selling it to me at $2500 he was losing $1000. Also, as I noted in a post just a few replies above, I liked the coin too much to entertain the option of voiding the deal.
King Solomon, himself, couldn't have made a more efficacious decision than yours.
You have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
I was wondering if there was a guilt factor built into why the extra $500 was sent off. I think I may have just ignored the request. Or tried to work some sort of deal. He was just asking for pure profit. Tables turned, that request is laughable.
It's a done deal let him eat cake - I would have paid him nothing. Time to move on to another supplier. It could have been a story just to get more money / I might have sent him a Sara Lee coupon and note "it's cake time."
I had similar situation where I sold a $300 coin for $150 at a show due to mistake when showing two items. I decided against contacting customer and took it on the chin like a professional - TOFT. It gave me a wake up call I better be more careful....
I can honestly say I have eaten every mistake I have made(and like everyone else I have made a few). That being said...I had it happen to me the other way around. I bought a coin in an ebay auction that I really wanted. A week or so later the dealer who I am very good friends with me contacted me and said he made a mistake. He actually listed a coin on ebay that he submitted for a customer by mistake! I made him paw a little bit and made a higher offer to offer his customer but it was a no go. I to this day still want that coin. But I undid the deal and sent the coin back.
@gemtone65 said:
To clarify, the coin was consigned at $3500, so by selling it to me at $2500 he was losing $1000. Also, as I noted in a post just a few replies above, I liked the coin too much to entertain the option of voiding the deal.
Maybe.....do you know who it was consigned from or are you certain he was being 100% honest?
There is certainly that possibility, and I would like to think that was the case.
However, I also wonder if he had, as I had mentioned above, someone who offered him $3500, but that you had already purchased the coin.......some people would do quite a bit for that $1000......
As a dealer, I would not have gone back to you for the the extra $1000. As John Agre said, It will serve as a reminder to be more careful in the future regarding memo coins and tracking internal costs. With that said, if you had done multiple transactions with the dealer and knew him well, you both might have come to an easy solution, as others have pointed out. Mistakes happen, and I think open communication and fairness is the key to resolving these situations without causing any hard feelings. I once sent out a coin to new customer for $1250 (it was a 1900-O Barber 50c in PCGS 65 I believe) that had a typo on the price. It was supposed to be $12,500. I was out of town and my employee did not catch it (he also paid with a credit card) so it was shipped. Although we had clearly stated in our terms of sale we weren't responsible for typos he refused to return the coin. We threatened to come after him legally, and finally had to PAY HIM an extra $2000 just plus refund his money just to get the coin back! It would have cost us more $$$ to fight him, as well as the time involved. I think in your case, given the circumstances, you were more than fair.
As a dealer/merchant/seller it is one's responsibility to see one's merchandise is correctly priced and it is even wiser to take a second look that is was correctly priced at the time of sale. Before payment is accepted. As a consumer/ client/purchaser there is an ethical responsibility to one's self to make good on one' mistake. Sort of like when you get too much money back in change from a merchant. Dealer should have chalked up his mistake as a learning lesson. Buyer was ethical in his decision as well as an extraordinary individual in today's world.
Too bad the dealer didn't recoginze this ethical quality in the buyer and offer many thanks. After hearing this story, I would pass on any purchases from this dealer. Also displays poor character on the dealer's part.
Personally , I would have paid the extra 1000 if you still liked the coin at that price, or just sent it back for a refund. That said, I would expect some consideration from the dealer the next time (or two ) he had a coin you liked.
I also agree that this all depends on your relationship, and warranted a phone call or further communication. The dealer shouldnt have sour grapes if you both agreed to split the difference at 500, he did goof after all. He should be thinking about a long term customer relationship as well.
@Justacommeman said:
If it was a trusted dealer I worked with regularly and they had the stomach to make that tough phone call to me I would have sent the coin back or paid the grand. Honest mistakes happen. In your particular case I think you handled it very well.
If you are not losing any sleep over this then you know you did the right thing
gemtone65, I think the answer to this depends upon two things, the price you initially paid for the coin, and your prior relationship you had with the dealer.
When he quoted you $2500.00 for the coin, you said to yourself "this is my lucky day", which I interpret to mean you felt you ripped the coin or got an extremely good deal on the coin. This lends more credence to the dealer claiming the he made a mistake on the price of the coin.
Second, if you had a really strong relationship with the dealer and he had done you favors in the past or gave you "first shot" many times, if I were in your shoes, I would have been inclined to send him a check for $1000.00 and add a couple hundred to help continue to foster the relationship. If, as you stated, you had a civil relationship with the dealer but only bought a few coins from him over the years, then I think you went above and beyond by "splitting the difference" with him.
TomT-1794
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
I probably would have just returned it, unless I really loved the coin and then given him his $1000 (stuff like that does not excite me, so I would not have been interested in the first place).
Can you still go to his table and look at what he's got this year, or does he give you the stink eye?
One time at my local B&M I had put aside a group of coins including generic $20 Libs/Saints I was going to buy from them. I tallied them all up on a piece of paper and handed it to them....$15,000 or so. They nodded agreement. I'm about 10 minutes from the shop on my drive home and I'm recalculating in my head the coins that I bought and keep coming up with a big error, in my favor. I get home and recheck with again and I'm $1,500 light. I call them immediately and let them know I "ripped" them off. No problem, just mail us a check for the difference, they said. I doubt they would have ever caught the error. Ironically, it wasn't too long after than that they slowed down showing me anything. And eventually, it was near impossible to buy from them. I don't think it was related, but odd how it transpired.
As a dealer I would never email or call a customer after a deal was done asking for more money. If I screw up, I eat it. And I have in the past, as has virtually every dealer. Anyone who says they've never made a mistake is either lying or isn't doing anything. It happens and you learn from it. It's a good lesson in keeping better records and paying attention-especially on a four digit or higher deal. As an aside... good customer or no, I'm not so complacent or lazy as to let a customer do my job adding up a deal. I add it, double check the math, and offer to let them check if they wish. Common sense. jmho
I have had several cases where a dealer quoted a price, but then said they wanted only cash on the deal. I got the cash then they re-neged, saying the price went up or they found a higher buyer in the 15 minutes or half hour it took me to go to the atm and come back as we agreed initially. One I never did business with again, as there was a pattern of dishonesty, the other I did limited business with him initially questioning whether he was a man of his word. If your word isn't good what else are you good for?
@logger7 said:
I have had several cases where a dealer quoted a price, but then said they wanted only cash on the deal. I got the cash then they re-neged, saying the price went up or they found a higher buyer in the 15 minutes or half hour it took me to go to the atm and come back as we agreed initially. One I never did business with again, as there was a pattern of dishonesty, the other I did limited business with him initially questioning whether he was a man of his word. If your word isn't good what else are you good for?
If a buyer or seller backs out of a done deal that is a serious character flaw in my book. You hand shake and its done after both parties perform. Higher dollars or change of mind is not a reason to back out of a done deal.
Over the years of buying and selling I have seen back out sellers and they do get a reputation they may not even be aware but word gets around.
@CascadeChris said:
Generally I would have told him to kick rocks and on top of that I would have been offended that he even asked me to send him another thousand after the deal was done. Its one thing if we were still at the show and he hunted me down but to send an email asking for 40% more once the deal was done is BS imo. He should take his lumps and considered it a learning experience just like every collector that had paid him more than what a coin is worth. And it wasn't like he was losing money too. Basically he said "I didn't make a profit, can you fund my profit due to my mistake please" come on.
And I'm generally a nice and fair guy but to get an email like that days later would irk me to say the least. Of he was losing a good sum I probably would have returned it for him but to pay his profit due to his mistake is absurd... This is all contingent on if I know the dealer or want to do business in the future with him of coarse
I like that, "Kick Rocks
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
I would have returned the coin if I trusted the dealer, but if I did not know them from Adam and had questions about their honesty, I would have probably done what you did if the dealer asked apologetically and nicely.
The dealer should have offered you something along the lines of a "$250 or $500 credit towards a future purchase", etc, for your trouble, which he didn't do. He also sounds like he is whining that because he didn't make a profit at the $3500 price, that price should be the basis for your payment---I would say he should be taking a decent loss at a minimum.
At the end of the day though, you should do what your conscience dictates.
Somewhat along those lines, last night went to a restaurant, used a buy 1 get 1 free coupon. The cashier tapped and tapped and tapped on the cash register, and announced the bill was 7 cents. This was for a $15 meal, and was for my wife, myself and my son. I questioned it, and he tapped and tapped and tapped again, and said that is was correct. I suggested he check with the manager, who was very nice, and showed him the correct way to ring it up. It jumped from 7 cents to $50+. I suggested he may want to check with the manager again, and she finally, nicely, let me know it was his first day, and she took him step by step, and it finally rang up about $25, which was correct.
I thought about some comment about each meal really was worth 2 cents, but let it pass.
The fact that you thought the coin was cheap and he told you he made an honest mistake would have been enough for me to send it back or pay him the break even price. He has your email which tells me you know each other. Do you really think he is lying?
Comments
I find the "if" responses interesting.
If he or she was a good person with whom the buyer may have past or future dealings, work something out. If not, a deal is a deal.
Theoretically and morally, should it make any difference? I believe most would answer "no".
How do the "iffers" justify the disparate treatment?
Because then you're more inclined to believe that it was an honest mistake rather than some dealer just trying to make more money at your peril.
Also, if you have had good experiences with him in the past; you may want to return the favor, especially, if you plan future dealings.
But I agree that an ethical dealer would not likely act in this manner.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
For one, you have no clue if the seller was making up that consignment story. In fact, I'd lean towards a better than 50/50 odds it was made up. There's something about having someone else's coins in your bourse case that you almost always take additional care when handling/pricing them.
Theoretically and morally, it would be handled the same....IF....we knew all the facts in the case with 100% accuracy concerning the consignor, seller, and buyer. Since that's never going to happen, you make judgements. I've already been on the short end of such sticks from others in the past. Why would I give them preferential treatment next time such a deal occurs? If your moral compass is that strict, then you would turn the other cheek and set yourself up to be screwed a second time. I doubt anyone around here would allow that to happen.
The real "morality" of this situation is that the dealer either fabricated a story OR messed up big time with someone's consignment. It is more than ethically handled by the dealer stepping up and eating any losses that might have occurred. That's morality. Now if this dealer has a long history of giving rebates to customers for those times when they overcharged in error or even just quoted a higher price than intended because they though they could get away with it....then maybe we give them a pass in this situation and look for other ways to handle it.
This reminds me of the time when Legend set the reserve wrong on a coin....sold it at auction....delievered the coin.....then demanded it's return.
Anybody ever hear the outcome of that one?
I am not trying to hijack this thread, but the same thing happened to me in reverse. I was new to the "hobby" bought a 3 legged buffalo nickle raw from a reputable dealer in the 90's at a show in person. Got home and after studying the coin and the going prices in my new Redbook, I figured out that I paid twice the Redbook value!. My dealer friend lent me his greysheet (an old one) after that and that was even worse.. I called the dealer about a week later and asked him of I could return the coin for a refund. He laughed at me over the phone and and said "nope". "You bought it you own it"..... No offer to buy it back either. He was upset that I even called him with that request.
My point is, this is a two way street. I paid for an education on this coin. I think you were very generous Gemtone and I would much prefer doing business with a person like you!
Tell him you think you over paid and would like $1000 returned to you.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I think the OP was fair and reasonable to amend the sales contract made and and he performed fully and completely and in good faith. The offer was made and accepted and payment in full was made. done.
The dealer handled it poorly. Make a phone call and explain the situation and request consideration for a
honest error and ask for the 1000 or some reasonable compromise. It is a request though and the dealer should be satisfied with whatever the result is. 500 that was not an obligation that was paid to offset the error was fair in this case. We all pay for our mistakes at some point I have and everyone reading these post have.
I would of offered the 500 or to retract the transaction less my actual cost be it for shipping and insurance or packaging whatever cost that may be incurred the dealer would pay.
.....
No, but I betcha Laura made it right and ate the cost of Legend's mistake.
IMO, Laura is the most "stand-up" lady in the biz, heads and shoulders above all the others in terms of knowledge, business acumen and common sense. She stands as a pillar of integrity in the biz, crusades against the disgusting coin doctors and is an asset to the industry. You will never see a show report from her that looks like a travelog as she is strictly biz and a tad "earthy" (in a good sense).
I sure wish she was back posting here - it would be a breath of fresh air in a musty room!
There was a thread about it here and that didn't seem to be the case in that thread. I have no idea how to find that thread with this search engine!
He is supposed to be a professional. He should suck it up ,eat the $1000 and learn from his mistakes.
Mistakes happen in business all of the time. I have always tried to not consider the dollar amount in deciding what is fair. Be it $500 error on a coin or an extra dollar in my hand given mistakenly by a cashier, at that moment I have to decide who I am and what I'm comfortable doing. We all set our own code of conduct and live with how it makes us feel.
you donated $500 to his/her retirement fund
please out the dealer
If you looked at the wrong line on the graysheet, made the purchase, went home and discovered your mistake, do you think the seller would return the difference?
Not on your life.
Cheers
Bob
I can't imagine contacting someone after a sale and asking for more money. If all the info about the consignor were true and I were the seller in this situation and made such a large error, I would likely have called, said I made a mistake with the selling price and ask for it's return for a refund with some sort of compensation to the buyer for their trouble. I couldn't imagine even telling the buyer how much of a blunder or how much I stood to eat on the deal. If the buyer such as the op in this case really wanted the coin and asked for new terms, I would probably try to work out a deal in the middle like the op did in this case. If they refused, which is their right in this case, I would just eat the loss.
I had a similar situation on a much smaller scale when I first started setting up a shows. I had a coin in my case where I had a very old purchase price on the 2x2 that I forgot to update with the current pricing. It was a close to bullion value item that I purchased when silver was $10oz and at the time it was $30+. A buyer walked up and asked if that was my price and embarrassed that I made the mistake I told him I would sell it to him at that price, but if he didn't buy it then, the price would be immediately changed. He refused to buy it at the low price because he knew it was an error, but I still offered to sell it at far below market. Had he just paid the price on the 2x2 I would like to think I wouldn't have held any animosity. Since then he has come to my table at nearly every show I set up.
My Ebay Store
I think you were very fair with the dealer and should not lose any sleep over it. He did say he broke even on the coin so the 500.00 you sent were profit for him and the consignor. Maybe he did not get what he was expecting but he did not lose any money. He did make a mistake and needs to own it. As far as him being standoffish at future shows, well that is his issue. Find a coin you like in his case and have a friend deal for it on your behalf.
I can see an auto dealership sending you an invoice for another couple grand for selling you something at cost, oops sorry could you please forward my profit I forgot to add it in.
I had this exact thing happen to me. I bought a Jeep back in the 90's and the dealer mistakenly gave me 2 of the 500.00 rebates off the price of the vehicle. They sent this poor kid named Chad to the office I worked at to try and collect the money. I felt bad for him but did not (actually could not because I did not get 500.00 cash, just an additional 500.00 off the vehicle) give him anything. I was going to try to come up with it but my friends convinced me that I should not pay in honor of all those before me who had been hosed by a car dealer! So I never gave them the 500.00. Chad looked really sad when he left, maybe they had told him he could have a percentage of the $. Never saw him again.
K
My Ebay Store
Interesting scenario. I'm with the crowd that first looks at the relationship with the dealer. A good long-term relationship has built-in that you both look out for each other and in such cases no question that both parties would let the other off the hook for a mistake like this. Given the OP's sheer delight with the coin, returning it is very difficult/impossible although a reasonable alternative otherwise. I think more communication, especially direct communication was the order of the day, and that's where the ball got dropped, and now both parties are unhappy, and will never likely conduct business again; not the end of the world, but not ideal. The solution worked out by the buyer seems fair to me in many ways, but was not from an open negotiation with the other party. Had that happened, the results might have been much more palatable for all.
Tuition goes both ways
Latin American Collection
Many years ago, I won an auction coin via internet bid with a large auction house that was mistakenly sold to a floor bidder for the same bid. Their website said the coin was sold to someone else at that price and that I was not the high bidder. I called them and pointed out that their rules say it was my coin, because I bid that amount first.
They agreed with me, but the guy to whom they shipped the coin refused to return it to them, so I was SOL. This was a coin I was trying to find for the prior four years. Based on that, if the dealer said he made a mistake, I'd ship the coin back and get a refund.
As an aside, at a show, I saw a 24 S Buffalo Nickel in MS 65. It caught my attention because it was priced far too low. I looked at the coin, and told the dealer that he made a mistake; he had priced it as a 24 P. I could have bought the coin and flipped it, but I need to be able to live with myself.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I agree about the relationship with the dealer. If this was someone I had dealt with many times over the years and gotten good and honest service, I would've been pretty sure the dealer was honest about being up against it in making the mistake he made on that coin. If that were the case, for myself, I would've just said to the dealer "If I pay $1,000 more for this coin, I will be very ticked off, and if I don't pay $1,000 more for this coin, you are going to be very ticked off, so to make sure no one is ticked off, return my $2,500 and I'll return the coin and you can go sell it to someone else for $3,500, i.e., let's reverse this transaction and pretend it never happened."
This.
To clarify, the coin was consigned at $3500, so by selling it to me at $2500 he was losing $1000. Also, as I noted in a post just a few replies above, I liked the coin too much to entertain the option of voiding the deal.
King Solomon, himself, couldn't have made a more efficacious decision than yours.
You have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I was wondering if there was a guilt factor built into why the extra $500 was sent off. I think I may have just ignored the request. Or tried to work some sort of deal. He was just asking for pure profit. Tables turned, that request is laughable.
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
No
It's a done deal let him eat cake - I would have paid him nothing. Time to move on to another supplier. It could have been a story just to get more money / I might have sent him a Sara Lee coupon and note "it's cake time."
I had similar situation where I sold a $300 coin for $150 at a show due to mistake when showing two items. I decided against contacting customer and took it on the chin like a professional - TOFT. It gave me a wake up call I better be more careful....
I can honestly say I have eaten every mistake I have made(and like everyone else I have made a few). That being said...I had it happen to me the other way around. I bought a coin in an ebay auction that I really wanted. A week or so later the dealer who I am very good friends with me contacted me and said he made a mistake. He actually listed a coin on ebay that he submitted for a customer by mistake! I made him paw a little bit and made a higher offer to offer his customer but it was a no go. I to this day still want that coin. But I undid the deal and sent the coin back.
Maybe.....do you know who it was consigned from or are you certain he was being 100% honest?
There is certainly that possibility, and I would like to think that was the case.
However, I also wonder if he had, as I had mentioned above, someone who offered him $3500, but that you had already purchased the coin.......some people would do quite a bit for that $1000......
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I would not have given him one red 2017-P cent.
I am confident that everything he told me was true.
As a dealer, I would not have gone back to you for the the extra $1000. As John Agre said, It will serve as a reminder to be more careful in the future regarding memo coins and tracking internal costs. With that said, if you had done multiple transactions with the dealer and knew him well, you both might have come to an easy solution, as others have pointed out. Mistakes happen, and I think open communication and fairness is the key to resolving these situations without causing any hard feelings. I once sent out a coin to new customer for $1250 (it was a 1900-O Barber 50c in PCGS 65 I believe) that had a typo on the price. It was supposed to be $12,500. I was out of town and my employee did not catch it (he also paid with a credit card) so it was shipped. Although we had clearly stated in our terms of sale we weren't responsible for typos he refused to return the coin. We threatened to come after him legally, and finally had to PAY HIM an extra $2000 just plus refund his money just to get the coin back! It would have cost us more $$$ to fight him, as well as the time involved. I think in your case, given the circumstances, you were more than fair.
I think it was prior to 2017 when this occurred.
As a dealer/merchant/seller it is one's responsibility to see one's merchandise is correctly priced and it is even wiser to take a second look that is was correctly priced at the time of sale. Before payment is accepted. As a consumer/ client/purchaser there is an ethical responsibility to one's self to make good on one' mistake. Sort of like when you get too much money back in change from a merchant. Dealer should have chalked up his mistake as a learning lesson. Buyer was ethical in his decision as well as an extraordinary individual in today's world.
Too bad the dealer didn't recoginze this ethical quality in the buyer and offer many thanks. After hearing this story, I would pass on any purchases from this dealer. Also displays poor character on the dealer's part.
Personally , I would have paid the extra 1000 if you still liked the coin at that price, or just sent it back for a refund. That said, I would expect some consideration from the dealer the next time (or two ) he had a coin you liked.
I also agree that this all depends on your relationship, and warranted a phone call or further communication. The dealer shouldnt have sour grapes if you both agreed to split the difference at 500, he did goof after all. He should be thinking about a long term customer relationship as well.
This
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
gemtone65, I think the answer to this depends upon two things, the price you initially paid for the coin, and your prior relationship you had with the dealer.
When he quoted you $2500.00 for the coin, you said to yourself "this is my lucky day", which I interpret to mean you felt you ripped the coin or got an extremely good deal on the coin. This lends more credence to the dealer claiming the he made a mistake on the price of the coin.
Second, if you had a really strong relationship with the dealer and he had done you favors in the past or gave you "first shot" many times, if I were in your shoes, I would have been inclined to send him a check for $1000.00 and add a couple hundred to help continue to foster the relationship. If, as you stated, you had a civil relationship with the dealer but only bought a few coins from him over the years, then I think you went above and beyond by "splitting the difference" with him.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
I probably would have just returned it, unless I really loved the coin and then given him his $1000 (stuff like that does not excite me, so I would not have been interested in the first place).
Can you still go to his table and look at what he's got this year, or does he give you the stink eye?
No good deed goes unpunished.
One time at my local B&M I had put aside a group of coins including generic $20 Libs/Saints I was going to buy from them. I tallied them all up on a piece of paper and handed it to them....$15,000 or so. They nodded agreement. I'm about 10 minutes from the shop on my drive home and I'm recalculating in my head the coins that I bought and keep coming up with a big error, in my favor. I get home and recheck with again and I'm $1,500 light. I call them immediately and let them know I "ripped" them off. No problem, just mail us a check for the difference, they said. I doubt they would have ever caught the error. Ironically, it wasn't too long after than that they slowed down showing me anything. And eventually, it was near impossible to buy from them. I don't think it was related, but odd how it transpired.
As a dealer I would never email or call a customer after a deal was done asking for more money. If I screw up, I eat it. And I have in the past, as has virtually every dealer. Anyone who says they've never made a mistake is either lying or isn't doing anything. It happens and you learn from it. It's a good lesson in keeping better records and paying attention-especially on a four digit or higher deal. As an aside... good customer or no, I'm not so complacent or lazy as to let a customer do my job adding up a deal. I add it, double check the math, and offer to let them check if they wish. Common sense. jmho
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I have had several cases where a dealer quoted a price, but then said they wanted only cash on the deal. I got the cash then they re-neged, saying the price went up or they found a higher buyer in the 15 minutes or half hour it took me to go to the atm and come back as we agreed initially. One I never did business with again, as there was a pattern of dishonesty, the other I did limited business with him initially questioning whether he was a man of his word. If your word isn't good what else are you good for?
If a buyer or seller backs out of a done deal that is a serious character flaw in my book. You hand shake and its done after both parties perform. Higher dollars or change of mind is not a reason to back out of a done deal.
Over the years of buying and selling I have seen back out sellers and they do get a reputation they may not even be aware but word gets around.
I like that, "Kick Rocks
He should be grateful you sent him the $500, and you should not at all feel awkward around him, it's the opposite if anything.
I would have returned the coin if I trusted the dealer, but if I did not know them from Adam and had questions about their honesty, I would have probably done what you did if the dealer asked apologetically and nicely.
The dealer should have offered you something along the lines of a "$250 or $500 credit towards a future purchase", etc, for your trouble, which he didn't do. He also sounds like he is whining that because he didn't make a profit at the $3500 price, that price should be the basis for your payment---I would say he should be taking a decent loss at a minimum.
At the end of the day though, you should do what your conscience dictates.
Somewhat along those lines, last night went to a restaurant, used a buy 1 get 1 free coupon. The cashier tapped and tapped and tapped on the cash register, and announced the bill was 7 cents. This was for a $15 meal, and was for my wife, myself and my son. I questioned it, and he tapped and tapped and tapped again, and said that is was correct. I suggested he check with the manager, who was very nice, and showed him the correct way to ring it up. It jumped from 7 cents to $50+. I suggested he may want to check with the manager again, and she finally, nicely, let me know it was his first day, and she took him step by step, and it finally rang up about $25, which was correct.
I thought about some comment about each meal really was worth 2 cents, but let it pass.
The fact that you thought the coin was cheap and he told you he made an honest mistake would have been enough for me to send it back or pay him the break even price. He has your email which tells me you know each other. Do you really think he is lying?
If you both sleep good at night... it matters and nothing's wrong. I hope nobody lost sleep over this.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5