Did I Handle this Dealer Situation Properly?
gemtone65
Posts: 901 ✭✭✭
So, I'm at a big regional show in Baltimore a few years ago and I stop at a dealer who carries perhaps the best overall selection of toned Morgan dollars at the show. There must be 1000 tables, so that's saying something. I often stop and chat with him at this show, and review his stock. Yet, over a period of perhaps 5-7 years, I'd only previously purchased 2 coins from him. One was formerly from the Battle Creek Collection, a very clean MS65 1885, shown as the third coin below. 
. The other was an 1881-s MS66, formerly from a Superior sale, that I found attractively toned. This is the first coin shown here.
Although the quality of his toned coins was uniformly high, he rarely had true monsters. In reviewing his inventory, I located one coin that blew me away. This was a very attractive MS65 1880-s. So, asked if I could inspect it, was granted permission, and found it to be as nice as it initially appeared. I then asked then obvious question, expecting the worst: "how much?"
He said "$2500." I thought, this is my lucky day. I wrote him a check, thanked him, and went happily on my way with my new acquisition. That coin, the second one shon here, has lovely uniform emerald green toning. 
Less than a week later I received an email from this dealer. He said he had sold me this coin too cheaply; that it was consigned to him at $3500, and he asked me to remit to him a check for $1000. He said at that price he was only breaking even on the deal.
I thought about what he had said, and had no reason to not believe anything that he had said. But, it seemed to me a deal is a deal, especially with a professional dealer at a show. I mean, suppose I had decided I had overpaid by $1000 -- do you think any dealer would give me a refund?
In any event, I decided to be what I thought was magnanimous, and told him that I'd split the difference and send him a check for $500. Which I did. He did not thank me nor was he ever particularly friendly thereafter at future shows. So, I've always wondered whether I handled 
this situation properly. What do you think?
Comments
My first impression is that I would have mailed the coin back to him for a full refund, but if you really loved the coin then I would expect a phone call to discuss the matter further. However, if I really could live without the coin, I would simply send it back for the refund and end the relationship.
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Lots of ways to handle this. I hear the corn popping now. What's the over/under folks? 100 easy? I'll take the over Thankyouverymuch.
Personally I might have said 'Why don't we just undo the deal?' depending on how much I wanted the coin. Certainly his bad, but how you handle the situation speaks as much about you as how he does says about him.
refund
If the price he originally quoted you had been $3500 at the show, would you have bought it?
Generally I would have told him to kick rocks and on top of that I would have been offended that he even asked me to send him another thousand after the deal was done. Its one thing if we were still at the show and he hunted me down but to send an email asking for 40% more once the deal was done is BS imo. He should take his lumps and considered it a learning experience just like every collector that had paid him more than what a coin is worth. And it wasn't like he was losing money too. Basically he said "I didn't make a profit, can you fund my profit due to my mistake please" come on.
And I'm generally a nice and fair guy but to get an email like that days later would irk me to say the least. Of he was losing a good sum I probably would have returned it for him but to pay his profit due to his mistake is absurd... This is all contingent on if I know the dealer or want to do business in the future with him of coarse
If it was one of my close dealer friends then I would either have paid the $3500 or sent the coin back.
Ugggggh. No matter what happens here there are only losers and hurt feelings. If this was all done through the mail, I think undoing the transaction would be best, and should have been the dealer's first suggestion. If done face to face at a show, where most dealers consider sales to be final, it seems like a double-standard for the dealer to try to walk it back.
Unless the coin was absolutely irreplaceable, I'd never be comfortable being shaken down later for additional money. I don't think I would have sent half the difference though - that seems like trying to make two wrongs equal a right. Better to just send it back, ignore the email, or politely say no.
If I was the one who had made the mistake, I'd probably just eat it and consider it a "stoopid-tax" to motivate me to be more careful when quoting prices.
I completely agree. He should have at least called you to discuss it rather than an email. I wouldn't have even sent him the extra $500. Depending on the situation I probably would've kept the coin or if I was feeling nice sent it back for a refund.
Lessen learned for the future if it ever happens again. Tell him to pound sand and expect to never talk to him again. It seems you spent $500 for that exact privilege and that exact result.
bob
Gorgeous coins, way out of my pay grade
I think I would have sat on the email for another week and then asked for the seller to call me to discuss the options.
I think you were plenty generous adding the extra $500, but that should have been discussed over the phone and not thru an email.
If it was a dealer that I knew well and trusted, then I would have either paid him the add'l money or sent it back for a full refund depending on, if I really wanted the coin or not.
If I did not know the dealer well; I would've been offended and would've either kept it or sent it back for a refund----again depending on how much I liked the coin.
He shouldn't have made such a careless mistake and then expect you to fund it. I can guarantee you that he wouldn't have given you any extra money back had you decided that you paid too much days later..........ridiculous imho.
A reputable dealer wouldn't have done that.
He didn't even appreciate your $500 extra that you did not owe him.
You were more than fair imho.
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If the situation were reversed and you overpaid and wanted to return the coin, he would tell you where to go. I would not pay him anything more. If he won't honor his deal, then he would be dead to me anyway.
There was a mistake in the dealers price and in a completely fair world, the deal should be undone so both are back to where they started. But life's not always fair.
The buyer did nothing wrong and merely accepted the price quoted by the dealer. You had a contract to buy the coin for $2,500 which you did. You made an offer to compromise by paying an additional $500 and the dealer accepted that offer.
He may not be happy with losing $500 but that is what you agreed.
I look at it like any other business transaction. Once you agreed to a price, that's it, deal done. I can see an auto dealership sending you an invoice for another couple grand for selling you something at cost, oops sorry could you please forward my profit I forgot to add it in. Sure no problem, I'll get right on it. Of course it may be different if a long term relationship exists. But other than that. No way Jose.
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I would have immediately called out the dealer on his claim that it was a consignment, by offering to sell it back to his consignor. That way the dealer's supposed sloppiness with his consignor would be made known to the consignor, and the owner of the coin might reconsider doing any further business with him, which is what really matters.
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You went above and beyond more than most IMO.
EAC 6024
Why would keeping the coin and adhering to the original contract be unfair? The dealer knew what he was doing or should have. The coin is also priced at close to 20x guide value, so it isn't like he looked at the wrong price tag. If he was sloppy and didn't pay attention to his consignor's wishes, then he deserves to pay the price. We hear dealers speak of collectors paying their tuition, why shouldn't this apply to dealers as well? Equity doesn't mean that the dealer must always make a profit. What if a collector sells a coin for too little money to a dealer? Does the collector have the right to demand more money later? The answer should be no IMHO.
Obviously, you did more than was required. And given your relationship with the dealer, your response was certainly reasonable.
FWIW, if I were in your shoes, my decision would have depended mostly on the way the dealer phrased his request. If he was appropriately apologetic and sincere, and if I thought that agreeing to his request might help build a valuable long term relationship, I would not have hesitated to return the coin, or offer an extra $1000. Otherwise, I'd probably offer nothing.
And one last thought. Perhaps the dealer should have been the one to offer to split the difference, rather than leaving it to you.
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Caveat venditor-caveat emptor. It goes both ways.
If the Fedcoin was a reality (which is ridiculous,) we're back to bartering and you did just fine under that premise. However, we aren't there yet and sending another dime to this unscrupulous "dealer" shouldn't have crossed your mind. Just my opinion.
Who knows if there was even a "consignor" or the dealer was offered a much stronger price from another buyer. It really comes down to the type of relationship you had with the dealer before this occurred, and how much trust there is between the two of you. I'd have liked to discuss the issue with the consignor directly as I'd feel bad seeming them lose $1,000 due to a sloppy dealer.
The coin looks fabulous and may have been a rip at the $2500 level considering all that eye popping green and extremely clean looking surfaces..... (ie "my lucky day"). If you knew that when buying it, then the $3500 story was probably true. The "cash and carry" crowd that makes up much of this forum, would likely have told dealer "X" to pound sand.
He didn't lose $500. He "only" made a $500 profit.
If he was that financially hurt over the deal, then he should've explained the situation and asked if he could buy the coin back with your understanding. He never should've asked for more money. And if you said no then he'd have to accept that.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
As I read it, the dealer was going to break even if he got another $1,000 sent. If that dealer was making $1,000 on the coin, I'd have surely told them to pound sand. But with such a unique coin, and supposedly one of the top experts in toner Morgans, how the heck can they screw up $3500 vs. $2500? They need to know their market closer than that, code the buy prices on the coins more legibly, or just pay more attention. I've overpaid by 100% for $2K-$3K coins at auction that I just plain over-graded. The auction house never offered to send me a check for $1,000 for making a nice score for them and their consignors. And had I suggested such a thing, they'd have had a good laugh and banned me from their auctions.
So, he quoted you $2500 and you paid $2500.
Then, less than a week later, out of the blue, he asks for more money saying it was consigned (obviously, from what you wrote, that never came up initially).
If you believed him, then I would have offered to have him send me the $2500 and I would send him the coin back. Again, if you believe him and if you liked him and wanted to keep a relationship with him (though it doesn't sound like a great one...just a dealer/collector one)
Now, instead of getting upset with you, he should have been upset at himself, IF his story was true, for being sloppy and incorrect. Also sounds like he could have approached you better.
It is also a possibility, I believe, that someone had seen the coin (website or in person) and went back to get it and you had purchased it...and they may have offered $3500 for it.......
Btw...nice, clean, looking coin.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
You're right. I guess I read it wrong at first. But still. His mistake, his loss. He's making the op pay for his mistake, days later, which I find extremely out of line. Hope I don't unknowingly buy something from him in the future
You must also remember that the prices for toned Morgan Dollars have spiked and are higher than the prices were a few years ago. $2500 was probably a fair price at the time, and much more than the dealer would have likely offered someone selling to him.
I suspected this possibility, also.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I would have told him to pound sand, pound it hard, and if it made him feel better, to cry while doing it.
.....
While I don't disagree, I suspect I'd get a raft of crap if I posted that because I am targeted in some circles here.
For items in this range, I prefer "no-name" cash transactions. That would have avoided the situation the OP faced.
I think the OP was more than fair.
Gemtone65, you're a nice guy. The dealer in question is a jerk. A cheap jerk.
What your dealer thinks of you is none of your business.
What you think of your dealer is none of his business. Fair about's fair play. You played... you paid. How much business you ever do again could be determined by the way you both conduct business. It's not my business.
Great hobby , it is. Not such a good business , in some cases.
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I think it's @gemtone65 fault that he put a gun to the dealer's head and forced him to sell it for $2,500.
Seriously, the nerves of this dealer. He messed up, he eats it like any other business. That's how the real world works. If he gave you the wrong price and it was $1,000 more than he quoted everyone else, would he have sent you a $1,000 check going "Opps!". Hell no. He'd be patting himself on the back. I think you were kind and generous to send him $500. He should be grateful that you did that and instead he's giving you the cold shoulder.
..... well said.
Sad but true.
The dealer should have FIRST offered to buy the coin back from you rather than asking for more money. To sell you a coin and then come back at you for additional money in my book is way out of line and unacceptable. If the dealer doesn't know their inventory better than that they should clearly mark everything to avoid the situation again. The dealer would not have received another dime from me. I would have sold it back but never would have given additional money.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
The dealer should have eaten it - it was his mistake, after all. It's a cost of doing business; such mistakes are inevitable. This unnamed dealer is a jerk for pressuring you and, if I were you, I would stop doing business with him (no matter how infrequently).
Interesting story.
Speaking for myself, I would not have had the chutzpah to call and ask for more money for my own mistake. For $1,000, painful as it may be, I'd have eaten it and used it as a reminder to keep better records in the future.
Your offer to split the difference was more than fair, magnanimous even.
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ENTIRELY hIs error, and as such he should have called you and asked if you would make him whole but
unless you desperately need him as a source of future coins, I would not have paid anything.
Commems and Early Type
I had a coin on consignment with Jimmy of Sunshine Rarities many years ago, an 1891 MS65 Morgan dollar worth over $5K. So I check with him a few months later and he said that he had sold it as a common date Morgan, hard to believe, but I demand full compensation. And you know though the guy eventually suffered criminal charges and jail on ripping off the wrong people, not me though, he made good on my coin.
On this case I would send the coin back for the refund. The last thing I would want is a collector upset that the dealer screwed up.
That's a tough call.
Honestly, if it was a dealer I truly respected for honesty and integrity, then I would have played ball with him and settled up as he wanted.
On the other hand, if the dealer has a somewhat dubious reputation, then I would have just kept the coin as is and relished in my 'good score'.
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Tell him you flipped it at the show for a huge profit. If he asks who bought it just say you don't remember because he paid cash. Of course, I'm only kidding here.
If you go with the "undo the deal" option, tell him that you'll send him the coin after his check clears.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
To keep it simple:
If I had a good relationship with the dealer I would have worked with him. By that I mean a dealer I planned to work with for the rest of my collecting lifetime and have had many successful transactions with.
The way you describe this situation did not warrant any compensation. You did more than you were obligated and still got the cold shoulder. That in itself speaks volumes....
First of all, this should have been handled at least by telephone (if he did not have your contact number, you could have called). Second, you were quite fair in sending him the $500. Third, I would have asked for my money back and returned the coin when it was in my account. Cheers, RickO
If it was a trusted dealer I worked with regularly and they had the stomach to make that tough phone call to me I would have sent the coin back or paid the grand. Honest mistakes happen. In your particular case I think you handled it very well.
If you are not losing any sleep over this then you know you did the right thing
M
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
An collector who is an purported expert in his/her collecting area sells am "awesome" coin to a dealer for $2,500 at a show. Less than a week later the collector "realizes" he/she has $3,500 into the coin and it was sold at a loss. The collector emails the dealer with the story and asks the dealer to remit a check for $1,000. How many dealers would graciously remit the $1,000 or even offer $500 or even respond politely to the email?
What an interesting business model ... reflect on a deal ... don't like the price ... ask for more money. Hey Lakes ... remember that cool Doily Jefferson nickel I sold you? That was way too cheap ... send me more dough! (Just kidding, of course)
So many people hammer "newbies" about the tuition of numismatics when a mistake is made. It's sounds like some experienced folks may need to pay a little graduate level tuition on occasion.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I'd have either returned the coin for a refund or negotiated the same deal giving him $500 more. It wasn't your fault he quoted the wrong amount and accordingly your willingness to split the difference was fair. Had you paid cash he might never have had any recourse.
Sounds like $500 isn't that big a loss for him to endure.
Why bring this issue up after a few years ago ? More dealer got higher offer from someone that saw the coin
Pay more after the deal ? LOL.....who would give refund after you thought you over paid answers the question
Thanks, everyone, for your thoughtful and varied responses. I notice that many respondents suggested the option that I return the coin and ask for a refund. Let me say that I considered this coin irreplaceable at the time and frankly, many years later, still feel it is irreplaceable notwithstanding inspecting tens of thousands of gem toned dollars since then. So, it would have been emotionally very difficult for me to part with this coin, and still is.
Well, as a collector, I had to learn the hard way, so should the dealer.
At one time or another, we all have to take our lumps in this business and learn from it. Letting him off the hook taught him nothing and cost you a packet.
Just my eversohumble opinion.
Cheers
Bob
I would have sold it back to him for $2,600.
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