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New Blood
alexrichter
Posts: 34 ✭
I have always had a passion for coin collecting, it started about 10 years ago when I received a few wheat pennies from my grandfather. I'm young and definitely could use the advice to help me in the hobby. Looking for some wise coin enthusiasts to teach some young blood.
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Welcome. Right now everyone but me is watching a football game but you'll learn a lot in time.
Thanks, I have a question revolving around proof sets vs Uncirculated. So if the set is from the mint wouldn't that's make it Uncirculated or is proof it's own category under Uncirculated.
Welcome!
There are also some great threads to be found by using the search feature.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
they ship both. unc and proof. neither have been circ.
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So why do they not grade proofs as Uncirculated, or is saying it's proof mean it's Uncirculated. Because every once and awhile you see proofs in circulated coin rolls.
Welcome!
Proof coins are manufactured by the Mint using a different process in order to produce high quality coins.
There are two parts to a coin - the fields (which is the flat part) and the devices (the portrait, date and design).
With modern proofs, the fields are highly reflective mirrors and the devices have a "frost" that highlights them. When the contrast between the fields and the devices is strong, it gets a Cameo designation (like a woman's cameo broach). When the contrast is stronger, it gets a Deep Cameo designation.
Most all modern proofs since 1983 are deep cameos.
Uncirculated coins are just a state, meaning they haven't circulated. The Mints produce billions of coins each year to be used in the money supply. They also produce Mint Sets which are the same coins but packaged and sold by the Mint.
Proof coins aren't meant to circulate, but sometimes a collector will put them into circulation. I've done it when I crack out a proof set and send a coin into PCGS for grading, I'll sometimes just spend the rest of the proof set. Hopefully people will be happy when the find that bright shiny coin and save it.
@TopographicOceans When you speak of cameo and dcam your talking about this right.
Stick around and read and I guarantee you will learn something.
Proof is a method of manufacture. The coin can be circulated, in which case it would receive a numerical grade consistent with its level of circulation, or it might have never seen circulation and then it would receive a numerical grade consistent with its preservation. Regardless, a proof coin is designated PR (at PCGS) or PF (at NGC).
Business strike coinage is separate from proof coinage and mint state business strike coinage is graded using the term uncirculated. Once a business strike coin shows evidence of wear it becomes circulated. Proof coinage and business strike coinage are two different animals.
It has been a while since I cracked open my copy of the Red Book to look up these definitions, but I believe they had at one time explained the differences quite well.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Task 1: get a copy of the "Red Book" and learn what's in there. It's the best starting point. Most of us started with it!
https://amazon.com/Guide-Book-United-States-Coins/dp/0794843042/
Asking questions is good, too. Although you will learn more and faster from the Red Book.
It is considered a basic book, but it contains a vast amount of info.
Hey, welcome! I think a lot of us have similar stories -- it started for me when I inherited a few old coins from my great grandfather when I was eight.
Yes, the Red Book is a must.
Good eye re: proofs in circ rolls -- they do turn up. Circulated proofs may not be worth anything much, but I still get excited when I come across one.
Oh, and -- you said you could use advice, so here's mine -- at first, if you're going to spend money in the hobby, buy books rather than coins or grading submissions. Invest in your knowledge first, and your eventual investment in your collection will be wiser, better informed, etc. Most of us learn this the hard way ...
As mentioned before, we use "uncirculated" interchangably for the term "business strike." The US Mint does as well.
You have a proof that has not circulated. That means it will grade in the uncirculated grades.
We can be really confusing and say there are also uncirculated uncirculated sets from the mint, but we tend to say uncirculated mint state coins (meaning business strikes) or the lesser used uncirculated business strike coins.
As noted it is possible to find circulated proof and circulated mint set coins during roll hunting.
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circ proofs are referred to as "impaired" usually.
time to meet mr. sandman.
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Welcome to the forum.
Nice Ike dollar. Welcome to the boards. Keep asking questions
Yes that Ike is a deep cameo proof.
It has mirrored fields and frosted devices with lots of contrast between the two.
@alexrichter ..... Welcome aboard.... there is great advice above... buy the Redbook and read it...it will provide a solid foundation for your hobby. There are many other books of course, but you will get them as your interests expand and/or focus on specific series etc. Have fun, it is a great hobby. Cheers, RickO
Welcome to the place of unlimited numismatic knowledge and opinions
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Also @alexrichter the blanks for minting proof coins are polished and the dies are retired much sooner than those used to coin circulation strikes
Nice looking Ike and welcome.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Here's mine:
Figure out what you want to collect - what you enjoy and don't let anyone else tell you what you need to be collecting. If you're collecting anything newer than say 1960 expect some to try and tell you not to. Ignore them.
Collect slowly and strive for quality over quantity. It's easy to buy a bunch of sub-standard coins that you'll just be replacing in a few years. Decide if you like toners or not. Try to figure out why other collectors value certain coins - things like full steps (FS), fully-split bands (FSB), cam and deep cam, PL, DMPL, cartwheel etc. this will help elevate the quality of your collection and likely make the hunt harder and more enjoyable.
Select a storage medium for your collection. This will save you money in the long run. Do you want to collect stabbed coins? Coins in flips? Coin in albums? Each storage method has its own assorted display technology.
Read and absorb as much as possible.
Welcome and I hope you have a lifetime of coin collecting enjoyment! Lots of stuff to learn and this is a great place for it. That is a nice looking Ike BTW, thanks for posting it.
K
My YouTube Channel
As others have written, "Proof" is a term from manufacturing process that differs from regular production coins that are made for circulation. The dies and the planchets (coin blanks) are polished, and in modern times the recessed part of the dies are frosted there by producing a contrast between the devices and the fields. Modern Proofs are struck twice and have been struck twice as a matter of policy since 1950. According to one expert I heard at the PCGS FUN Convention luncheon, earlier Proofs were struck only once.
Whatever the process the goal of Proof coinage is to produce a coin with sharply defined devices and special surfaces. Proofs are sold for more than their face value. The term "Proof" relates to the concept that a special coin is struck to provide "proof" that the die is good and will produce strong impressions. Today Proof coins are made not for that purpose but to sell to collectors.
"Uncirculated" refers normal coins of the realm that are made for use in commerce. Care is made to make them credible and attractive, but there is less special care to make them "perfect." Mint State coins are made at a faster pace, and the dies are checked and re-polished less often.
Not to confuse you too much, but there have been coins that fall between Proof and Uncirculated. An example of them are the Special Mint Set coins that were issued from 1965 to 1967. They are not as nice as Proofs, but more care was taken in making them than the Uncirculated or business strike pieces.
The quality of Proof coins is defined by the government that issues them. Some foreign Proof coins are not hot, but since their government calls them that, collectors accept them as such.
hmm
I can take what Bill Jones has said and add that "uncirculated" coins minted for commerce can grade in the mint grades of 60-70, and mint state coins can grade in the mint state grades of 60-70
BillJones does provide a bit of correction, only I would substitute "business strike" for uncirculated above and correct myself to say we use the term "uncirculated" and "business strike" interchangeably.
of course, all 3, business strike/uncirculated, mint state, and proof coins can be found while roll hunting and can become worn and, thus, circulated.
I add the Unc<->BS interchangability as we typically don't say "that is a circulated uncirculated coin." We say "it is a circulated business strike coin." However, we often say "that is an uncirculated one" when business strike would be less confusing to the new people.
outside a bit of difference, BillJones has expanded and corrected what I wrote very well.
alex richter, your Ike is an proof that has not circulated, thus it is an uncirculated proof and would grade in the range of PR60-PR70
Mint State coins and Business Strike coins get grades MS60 to MS70 when they have not circulated.
Special Strikes that are not proofs and not business strikes are called specimens and they certainly can be circulated/uncirculated, too. The specimen strikes that have not circulated get grades in the range of SP60-70.
PCGS grades for the circulated ones range from AU58(+) down to PO01 (AU Almost/About Uncirculated) (PO Poor), and a 0 (no grade) is assigned to coins where not enough details are present to properly determine the specifics of it. Any number of factors can lead to a 0, such as the date is too worn, the date is readable but the area where the mint mark should be is too worn, years with more than 1 variety of the same coin can lead to trouble if the variety cannot be determined.
many libraries have a copy of the red book in the reference section at least, and many have older issues for checkout.
Hi buddy, Welcome to school! I say school because you'll not only be taught in coins but also in ethics, manners and business. Your first question is kinda complex but as you have already read the posts, your question has been answered. That's one good aspect here on our forum, there are numerous people with the knowledge in coins. Post often, don't be a stranger and most of all, HAVE FUN! Once again, Welcome aboard.-joey
"Jesus died for you and for me, Thank you,Jesus"!!!
--- If it should happen I die and leave this world and you want to remember me. Please only remember my opening Sig Line.Welcome, your doing good so far just come here and asking for help. That is more then some do when jumping in the deep end of the pool, there are a lot that can help you here just keep asking and posting.... Have fun and keep looking at coins, books it helps when grading coins your going to buy.
Hoard the keys.