How did this 20 cent CAC?
sjk1776
Posts: 132 ✭
I've been looking for a 20 cent type coin...I am confused as how this one CAC'd with all of the scratches and the hole in her arm?
https://www.northeastcoin.com/popupcontainer.jsp?include=/popup/viewImage.jsp&itemKey=zi11_204102466
Colonial and Continental Currency Collector.
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yes I would like to c our CAC fellow hobbyists explain this myself. Either way, one needs to look at coins b4 pushing the buy button. This one is certainly not worth a CAC sticker premium lol. Many would discount their offer, bid or just pass like I would. Why would somebody waste their money getting this dog stickered in the first place.
I am not sure what you mean. A green CAC sticker does not mean the coin is amazing shape. It is basically just "We feel it was graded correctly".
The hole in her arm does bother me. Not sure what that is about. I'll give you that.
Perhaps NCG judged, and CAC concurred, that 40 is an appropriate Net grade for that coin.
After all, without any of that wear, and without any of those marks, and with a perfect strike and luster and eye appeal, it would grade 70
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The spot on the arm look like a spot more than a hole (unless "hole" was used figuratively). I really don't like the scratches, especially the radial one at 9:30, which looks far more fresh than the rest of the surface of the coin. I'd pass on this one.
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OK, gradeflation looks like the culprit. Net grading IMHO is for currency and it gets an Apparent or Net designation.. This almost get a details grade in my book!
Those scratches. Whoa!
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They paid.... That's what makes it tough to say it will be right or perfect all the time.
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I am not sure that should be in a straight grade holder.
However I have seen this in both top grading companies.
It is called market acceptable. ???
yeah, that's no good
The logic seems to be that circulated coins aren't perfect, so some defects are acceptable. The scratch (from a 2x2 staple I suspect) at 9 o'clock is less dramatic when the image is reduced to the size of the coin itself, so on a pass/fail, it grades.
Don't put your money on an alterable digital image. Finding a nice 20-Cent piece is best done in person, with a loupe while covering the label.
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I am a lover of old paper money dabbling in a few coins guy. This object gets a PMG Net or PCGS Apparent as paper money goes. The CAC sticker should be a paper PPQ/EPQ worthy coin. This one flunks the test.
Much of the Stacks West 57th Street collection had original, unmessed-with coins in it.
CAC seems very pre-disposed to beaning those types of coins imho.
Let's face it....the coin is only a 40 and not a 55 or 58.
I think the coin is 'OK' for the grade and the marks are consistent with an XF 40 and the piece looks quite original.
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+1
The gouge at 9:30 obverse is tough for me to overcome. The reverse looks pretty good though.
The coin has EF-40 sharpness with some significant scratches. It should not have "the green football."
The arm could possibly be a toning spot but the ding in the field isn't. Both are distractions to me regardless of grade and stickers.
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Totally agree on the "not messed with and original" slant of CAC.
And this is an example of why CAC bean isn't a magic bean. If YOU like it, then fine...buy it. But just because THEY like it doesn't mean we should all bow down and worship it!
It's OK if you don't like certain coins despite their labels and stickers. I don't love this coin at XF40 with a bean but I don't have a big problem with it either. A 75 is a bit harder to find than a 75-S, but you'll find one you like better sooner or later.
I'd like to see it in-hand. The 9:30 gouge is certainly on the coin but the stuff in the right field might, possibly, be on the holder. It might have really nice luster too, which could mitigate some of the other issues. Passing harsh judgement against those who saw and examined it in-hand from a photograph is sometimes a mistake.
Yup.
It's an 1875 which is harder to find with original toning and surfaces like this one. The coin has luster on it which is not always the case for an XF40. The detail and luster is more like XF45. The strike is good. The only obvious defect to me is the scratch above star #3. So shoot me that the coin isn't perfect. It's an XF40. CAC is willing to make an offer on it. I see nothing wrong here. I've seen basket cases of cleaned, better date, seated coins that I would be appalled to own. But not this 20c piece. If I found an XF40 1872-s or 1860-s quarter looking like this coin I wouldn't be able to pay for it fast enough. The Stack's Collection Pedigree is a plus. It's not like this is from Joe Schmoe. I've yet to own a "perfect" XF40 seated coin of anything. They don't exist.
If the forum faithful want to know why the coin market has been in a funk for the past 8 years they need look no further than this coin. If such a coin is unworthy of our collective "love," because we only want to buy the best 5-20% in any grade, then what happens to the other 80-95% of the coin market? You can't have it both ways. You can't make fun of those who chase MS66-68 coins bringing huge premiums for every less mark they have, yet you do the exact same thing on VF-AU coins as if they were near MS70. If you're looking for an affordable XF 20c piece you can find a 75-s with very few marks to raise any concerns....at the expense of lightly cleaned or hairlined surfaces. Your choice.
Fwiw, I've seen marks worse than this coin on TPG graded MS62-MS64 seated coins. And with the OP's enlarged photo, we are viewing this coin under 25-50X power. Not exactly fair since it would likely be TPG graded w/o a glass. And like CAC, I appreciate and generally approve of this 1875 20c. Do I "worship" or love it to death? No. Is CAC now giving out "W" stickers?
My initial reaction was "Ouch!"
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Everyone has an opinion. In this case my opinion is that the coin should not have a sticker.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
I don't care for the coin. And from an image here not too sure how original it is as many suggest.
Here's another XF40 CAC to argue about. It has 4 slices across the obv and a bigger gouge in the right obv field. On top of that weaker detail, especially a faint "Liberty," a flat head, and no luster. Not that easy to find one of these in XF40/45 with everything just right.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/twenty-cent-pieces/quarters-and-twenty-cents/1875-20c-xf40-pcgs-cac-pcgs-population-51-555-ngc-census-17-393-mintage-38-500-numismedia-wsl-price-for-problem/a/131531-21114.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515
I see nothing wrong if a collector wants to wait and find one of his/her choice and not what someone else says they should like. I've owned a fair amount of nice double dimes. In xf-40 I think I only have a 1875CC.
Because it's merely an opinion of an opinion.....each given at a certain point in time.
Means nothing more, nothing less.
The referenced 20c coin looks OK to me. Not great, but OK.
It is ef40 it is supposed to be flawed, and that is no hole, it is a toning spot. I see nothing wrong with the ef40 grade. You opine as if it is a problem coin or an overgraded coin which it is not. It is a wholesome example, just not in high grade.
Every coin I have ever seen with the 'Stacks 57th St' pedigree has been garbage.....no hyperbole, strictly garbage
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Coin has 45 luster, but IMO the huge scratch at 9:00 and the field scratches in right field, should have kept this coin from beaning
CAC was regarded as recognizing coins that were exceptional for the grade and even under graded. People were paying premiums and grading companies later started adding + grades.
I do remember back then seeing the stickers on coins that I thought had much more eye appeal for the grade.
..... so CAC is now regarded as just agreeing with the grade? Doesn't seem so special.
Just a sticker.
@Aberlight....This is from the CAC site....Green sticker
WHAT THE CAC STICKER MEANS:
• Verified. Your coin has been verified as meeting the standard for strict quality within its grade.
• Guaranteed. CAC stands behind our verification by making markets in most actively traded coins.
A gold sticker indicates a higher perceived quality. Cheers, RickO
You had to be there... AND have it "in hand", to understand. Twosides is speculating, of course
I am more than fine with calling this a PQ xf. Looks borderline AU to me.
Keep in mind the photo has been blow up 20x+
And to put their money where their mouth is CAC is willing to buy this coin for the going rate of an 1875 xf 20c.
To me this thread demonstrated more than anything that grading is just an opinion. Ngc called this coin an XF. CAC agreed and felt the coin was deserving an XF grade and would buy it as such.
Many on the forum disagree with both NGC and CAC.
Some agree.
Can't argue the worthiness of a green bean, but not a coin I would want to represent
such a beautiful Seated Liberty specimen.
Jim
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Agreed, however to me xf can also be a garbage grade depending on the series, so if can agrees with npc that this coin is xf
I don't see a problem. I wouldn't buy it because it is a run of the mill xf and I like toning and typically much higher grades.
I'll do better than half of Trends (ie $237). I'll offer $332 for the coin just as it sits without even seeing it in hand. That's 70% of Trends and 66% PCGS price guide. But I have a feeling others here as well as JA would offer more. The current owner is a well known dealer with approx 45-50 years of successful experience making money in good and bad markets.... and I doubt they paid less than $350-$375 for it. If you look at other XF40 20c pieces in holders, this coin is not run of the mill. Run of the mill specimens these days are lightly to moderately cleaned in their past.