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Nickel Error - found a flipped-over-double-strike-in-the-collar nickel
JBK
Posts: 14,793 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hello: Long time reader, first time poster. I am not able to compete with the expertise here so I never bothered to register and post, but I have been happy to learn a lot as an unregistered reader of the Forums. But now I find myself in need of a little advice......
I will no doubt make the extremely annoying mistake that many new members make by posting a question about a coin without including a photo. I actually managed to get a couple decent photos with my phone but until I figure out how to post them I will hope that some error experts can give me some generic feedback about what I found.
I was opening up some rolls of 2016P nickels and I found one that was very dirty. It really stood out from the others, which were all blazing BU coins. My first thought was that an older nickel was still in the hopper when the new coins were dumped in to be rolled, but after I wiped some grease off with a paper towel I saw that it was also a 2016P coin. I was focused on the reverse where I saw a faint line above Monticello, and I was trying to decide if it could be a struck-through, and if it was significant enough to save. I eventually flipped it over and the light caught it just right and the elements of the reverse design lit up under the predominant obverse strike. I looked more closely and the line on the reverse was actually Jefferson's collar.
From what I have read there are three types of double strikes: second strike off center, double strike in collar, and flipped over double strike in collar. Mine is the last type and from what I gather, the least common of the three. I have been through many 10s of thousands of coins from rolls (not all new) and I have never found anything of interest in the way of errors - no clips, no cuds, no significant die cracks, no blank planchets, etc. This one was a real surprise.
So, generically speaking, I am curious to know how rare an error this is, if it is worth slabbing (I have no intention of selling it), and if I should attempt to deal with the dirty grease that is left on the coin. Bu the way, I assume that the grease is either the cause of the error (caused the coin to "stick" around in the striking area), or the direct result of it (picked up the grease as it hung around too long).
Thanks for any input anyone may have.
I will no doubt make the extremely annoying mistake that many new members make by posting a question about a coin without including a photo. I actually managed to get a couple decent photos with my phone but until I figure out how to post them I will hope that some error experts can give me some generic feedback about what I found.
I was opening up some rolls of 2016P nickels and I found one that was very dirty. It really stood out from the others, which were all blazing BU coins. My first thought was that an older nickel was still in the hopper when the new coins were dumped in to be rolled, but after I wiped some grease off with a paper towel I saw that it was also a 2016P coin. I was focused on the reverse where I saw a faint line above Monticello, and I was trying to decide if it could be a struck-through, and if it was significant enough to save. I eventually flipped it over and the light caught it just right and the elements of the reverse design lit up under the predominant obverse strike. I looked more closely and the line on the reverse was actually Jefferson's collar.
From what I have read there are three types of double strikes: second strike off center, double strike in collar, and flipped over double strike in collar. Mine is the last type and from what I gather, the least common of the three. I have been through many 10s of thousands of coins from rolls (not all new) and I have never found anything of interest in the way of errors - no clips, no cuds, no significant die cracks, no blank planchets, etc. This one was a real surprise.
So, generically speaking, I am curious to know how rare an error this is, if it is worth slabbing (I have no intention of selling it), and if I should attempt to deal with the dirty grease that is left on the coin. Bu the way, I assume that the grease is either the cause of the error (caused the coin to "stick" around in the striking area), or the direct result of it (picked up the grease as it hung around too long).
Thanks for any input anyone may have.
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Sounds more like clashed dies. Pictures would help.
Die clashes on these nickels are pretty common. I would not be surprised if that is what it is. Normally, you will see a line through Jefferson's eyes on the obverse, and Jefferson's eyes below the Monticello building on the reverse.
To be honest I had not considered clashed dies, but I am anxious to get my pics out here so you all can see them. The underlying image looks "squished" to me and not part of the die as I would expect on a clash, and there is a rotation involved.
Once I get pics posted I am sure you will be able to confirm what it is pretty quickly.
Edit 10/16/23:
Old pictures seem to be gone. Here they are again.
And after a trip across the street...
I also hoped that the paper towel did not do any damage. I mostly wiped off a thick layer of grease, just enough to read the date and see some details, and hopefully did not add any hairlines. The coin is still a little dirty - I think the pics look a little better than the coin does in hand.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Oddly, I was looking through recent eBay error listings yesterday and I noticed quite a few flipover double strikes sold recently. This nickel is more attractive than most of those, with the original strike very clear here. Nice find!
bob
Also.... take a look at the date of the underlying strike. It looks like 2015 to me! If that is the case, it would be extremely rare.
How can the "five cent" be mirror image? How does that happen?
bob
It's actually not mirror image, it's struck in correct orientation for this error. The coin was struck then flipped over, landed back in the collar, and struck again by the same dies on opposite sides. It might look sort of mirrored because of the orientation of the photo. If it were mirrored then it would be likely the reverse of a second coin was hammered into the first coin.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Wow! Absolutely spectacular! So much of the underlying design from the first strike has been preserved. This is a very desirable error.
Also.... take a look at the date of the underlying strike. It looks like 2015 to me! If that is the case, it would be extremely rare.
Wow, I missed that. Cha-ching!
Welcome aboard.
Hoard the keys
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"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
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M
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
https://photos.app.goo.gl/a6kwqbXrBhxnawsk6
The 2015 date means that a coin was struck, got stuck in a hopper or some other piece of equipment, and ended up getting fed back into the press the following year where, by chance, it came under the dies upside down.
A great find, and as somebody else said: "YOU SUCK!"
Congratulations!
TD
At some point this nickel probably belongs in a slab, but what to do about the residual grease? Would it be safe to slab "as is"? I assume grease is not acidic, but I expect that it may turn dark over time and also stain the coin. If it were nothing special then I would give it a bath in warm water mixed with some dishwashing liquid, but that probably is not appropriate here....
Very well done!
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Houston, we have a winner!
The 2015 date means that a coin was struck, got stuck in a hopper or some other piece of equipment, and ended up getting fed back into the press the following year where, by chance, it came under the dies upside down.
A great find, and as somebody else said: "YOU SUCK!"
Congratulations!
TD
Or someone could have simply tossed a 2015 coin into the planchet bin. But I think they take great measures to prevent this from happening or we would have seen many other coins of this nature.
And perhaps a title change is in order but include the word, "error' so this thread comes up in searches.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
It certainly looks like the original strike's date is 2015,
making this a flip over double strike dual date.
I sold a 1974 Nickel F/O on a 1973 Nickel, in an original
Mint Set, for just under $3K about two years ago, and
although this one isn't IN a mint set, it's a very scarce
error for this date era.
It's worth slabbing, imo, and could worth up to a few grand to the
right interested buyer, possibly.
for PCGS. A 49+-Year PNG Member...A full numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022
Looks like I will have to give it a bath first to remove the grease - I assume PCGS (or anyone else) will just slab what I send them, so unless I want to look at the grease and wonder how it will manifest itself over the years, I had better deal with it now.
I figure Acetone is a pure substance but what about the recommended alcohol afterward - any particular % or will any bottle of rubbing alcohol from the health and beauty section at Walmart suffice?
Perhaps I'll share the full story another time, but I was cracking open rolls of nickels for a project and this one was literally two seconds away from getting some pretty significant PMD. All the grease on it made it stand out and caused me to give it a closer look....
I always fantasize about finding a blank planchet or a large clip whenever I open new rolls and I was always disappointed that I have never found anything. I guess I can stop complaining now....
The alcohol is just a second dip to remove any residue still in the coin that was suspended in the acetone as you removed the coin from the acetone bath. Then the water rinse is a final measure to remove anything that may have lingered. Be quick about transfering from the alcohol to the faucet water rinse. Then place on a paper towel and fold over and pat dry, move coin to a fresh dry part of the paper towel and pat dry again then let it sit for a few minutes and place into a Mylar flip to await submission to pcgs
Wow! Thx for that additional information.
Looks like I will have to give it a bath first to remove the grease - I assume PCGS (or anyone else) will just slab what I send them, so unless I want to look at the grease and wonder how it will manifest itself over the years, I had better deal with it now.
I figure Acetone is a pure substance but what about the recommended alcohol afterward - any particular % or will any bottle of rubbing alcohol from the health and beauty section at Walmart suffice?
Perhaps I'll share the full story another time, but I was cracking open rolls of nickels for a project and this one was literally two seconds away from getting some pretty significant PMD. All the grease on it made it stand out and caused me to give it a closer look....
I always fantasize about finding a blank planchet or a large clip whenever I open new rolls and I was always disappointed that I have never found anything. I guess I can stop complaining now....
If you use isopropyl alcohol it is critical that you use 91%. Water will often cause nickel coins to get carbon spots.
Sometimes, and be very gentle if you do have to do this, you may need to use the tip of a CLEAN Q-tip to dislodge the grease. Change the Q-tip as the end gets dirty.
A hot tap water rinse is usually sufficient. Pat dry with clean towel.
Acetone can damage the finish of many surfaces, such as plastics, varnished wood, etc. If you are not sure if it is safe, don't use it on the surface you were thinking about. A ceramic or stainless steel sink is safe.
If I had never used acetone before, I certainly wouldn't use a 2k+ coin as my first attempt, even considering that acetone is generally safe for coins.
My nickle error is much more than yours
I am looking for someone to take it to
My email is lawsonjoycee.jl@gmail.com please respond
Take it right here. Post some photos.
OP posted some pics on the profile page.
Edit:
@joyceelaw posted pics on the profile page. @Joyceelaw —start a distinct thread for your query; the photos show the coins too poorly.
@Joyceelaw please post direct pictures of the coin, not pictures of the coin on a screen.
You can zoom in. The picture is plenty clear enough to that this is a heavily damaged "parking lot" coin.
Agree
Why am I not surprised he has a digital microscope.
You can actually see it better on the coin itself than the microscope image.
Is anyone else curious about the backwards writing in the background?