Interesting color progression inside a PCI slab from 2014 to 2018

coinsarefun · October 4, 2016 4:34PM

Right from the get go I would hope people know I do not mess with my coins, but I do love them toned. I will buy coins that are just starting to tone in PCI slabs and watch them go through the color progression.
Now I wish I documented more of them. Mostly ASE's and some other bullion coins. Regular coins will continue to tone but very, very slowly.

Anyways........I purchased this one in 2014 and thats how it looked.....
....pretty much white with some toning starting, mainly haze.

As with all my coins they are stored in a large safe and inside the large safe I have a separate wooden box with felt lined shelves that I put all my PCI holders in.......See pic below.

So tonight I started to compare the color progression from the last pic I took in 2015....+- one year after purchase. Check out the color progression around the cheek area. Pretty heavy and dark with lots of purple and orange on the permiter.

Now, another year later the color has moved off the cheek

and the purple has gone almost all the way around.....not to mention all the other color differences.

What strikes me with complete amazement and I had to go to the safe and pull it out just to make sure I didn't take crappy pic's or confuse them......Sure it is the color progressed off the cheek.....whaaat??

Has anyone else seen such a thing? Remover this is a bullion coin so it will be very different compared to regular silver coin.
Unless PCI insert papers really can change that much.....its wild and thought I would share.

2014

2015

2016

March of 2018, Similar, now reverse is toning diffrently

lordmarcovan · October 4, 2016 4:39PM

Wow. That's interesting. It's getting better looking!

ricko · October 4, 2016 8:49PM

That really is an interesting sequence Stef....I hope you will continue with this progression over the next few years... Cheers, RickO

Broadstruck · October 4, 2016 10:23PM

Hard to believe it un-toned on the central obverse...

Are you sure you don't have your image 2015 & 2016 years reversed

machoponcho · October 5, 2016 1:27AM

Yes, coins continue to tone in PCI holders, sometimes slowly, sometimes quickly depending on environment. I do not have the photo evidence as you do here, but I have witnessed the same. I bought several PCI toners that do not look as good today. Your coins in that same environment will continue to progress, and in a few years, likely won't look as good. All is well so far because your coin is going thru the beginning of PCI toning progression. Eventually, though, a dark purple ring of toning will develop near the center of the obverse. Edit: Oh, it already has, I see. That ring may continue to grow darker. The toning near the rims may actually get even more pastel overall! It's strange, but toning can regress like it has in the 2015 to 2016 snapshot here. Won't look as good in 2017, either. Your coin, to my taste, is already slightly past its prime. I like the 2015 better than the 2016!

Very good documentation and photo evidence here. Careful of shelling out more than a $100 premium for toners in PCI slabs; they are unstable and may not look as good in a couple years.

bolivarshagnasty · October 5, 2016 4:21AM

I'm going to agree with BS that the pictures may be out of order. Don't see how the red on the cheek goes back to white.

On another note.... this '86 ASE toned while in my possession AFTER it was holdered. It has not progressed any further in the last 4 years so I believe it has stabilized. See pics.

clarkbar04 · October 5, 2016 4:25AM

Very interesting!

Insider2 · October 5, 2016 4:27AM

As we all know...many coins tone in holders after they were slabbed due to chemicals on their surface that were not neutralized. That is not the case with the PCI coins. One of their former graders has reported that the coins went from the green box/grading room to the slab with no alteration of any kind. When all the 100% White dolars started to tone it became apparent that the ink, paper label, or insert was causing the toning on original coins.

johnny9434 · October 5, 2016 4:31AM

pass, not for me. just saying

coinsarefun · October 5, 2016 11:17AM

Originally posted by: Broadstruck
Hard to believe it un-toned on the central obverse...

Are you sure you don't have your image 2015 & 2016 years reversed

Lol, that's why I pulled the coin back out of the safe.
As I thought that too. But, nope..... what you see is what you get

coinsarefun · October 5, 2016 11:19AM

Originally posted by: bolivarshagnasty
I'm going to agree with BS that the pictures may be out of order. Don't see how the red on the cheek goes back to white.

On another note.... this '86 ASE toned while in my possession AFTER it was holdered. It has not progressed any further in the last 4 years so I believe it has stabilized. See pics.

Thanks for posting Mel.
I think I have some pics of an ase that went though many stages. I'll look and post later.

Kove · October 5, 2016 11:49AM

Very interesting.

I like the 2015 better than the 2016. It may get worse from here. For experimental value, I'd leave it where it is and continue to document the progression. However, if aesthetics is what you're after, I'd get it into an inert holder. Since it's bullion, I suspect the experiment has more value.

bolivarshagnasty · October 5, 2016 12:37PM

Stef,. This would be the first time I have seen a silver coin move from any color back to white. Maybe the chemicals moving across the coin

could lift the thin film from the surface? An interesting study nonetheless.

hchcoin · October 5, 2016 1:22PM

Cool pictures and thread. I actually said "whoa" out loud when I scrolled down and saw the dramatic change.

coinsarefun · October 5, 2016 2:17PM

Here is one I bought in a PCI slab, cracked it out and sent it in to PCGS.
It slabbed and a year later I sold it. A year after that I bought it back form the guy.
After 6-10 month later I noticed it changed to what the new true view looks like. Today which is another year, year and half had basically stayed the same but is starting to change again.

Today

mariner67 · October 5, 2016 2:24PM

Chemicals moving was my first thought.
Blue from the fields moving centrally as the fields get lighter.
But then again, what do I know!

logger7 · October 5, 2016 11:05PM

It would be nice if the top four grading services offered a Wayte Raymond style insert on certified coins similar to that.

ms70 · October 5, 2016 11:18PM

Will this un-neutralized chemical reaction eventually result in a completely black coin?

TwoSides2aCoin · October 6, 2016 2:23AM

Odd toning, Stef. And your passion and posts are always appreciated in this hobby.

TommyType · October 6, 2016 2:47AM

My thinking:

The toning color on a coin has to do with the "depth" of the oxidized layer at any particular point. Different colors come from different wavelengths of light being affected by that particular depth.

As the layer thickens over time, colors change. So it shouldn't be surprising to see that.

As for "turning white" again, I wonder if that's more a function of the angle the photograph is taken, and the lighting?

A truly white coin would have no tarnish layer, and should look white from all angles. However, a tarnish layer of just the right thickness might also LOOK white from certain angles, while taking on a different color if the coin is turned a few degrees. Maybe that's what we are seeing here?

So, my question to the owner is: Does the central "white" area appear to change color at other viewing angles?

stman · October 6, 2016 3:22AM

Heh, all this scientific analysis over hunks of bullion. Glad you're hanging in there Coinsarefun.

coinsarefun · March 25, 2018 11:29AM

Bump to coincide with my other thread

coinsarefun · March 25, 2018 11:59AM

Updated to include the newest image today

davewesen · March 25, 2018 12:38PM

I suspect it is something in the white plastic rather than paper insert that is causing toning.

Interesting color progression inside a PCI slab from 2014 to 2018

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