I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
One should take measures to protect themselves and not rely on others to do it for them.
Regular Paypal is a fine service. Cutting corners to save a few bucks can, occasionally, be costly.
I am not clear that Paypal and paying 3% gives you 100% protection. How is the seller protected if the buyer claims a SNAD or claims the box was empty when it was delivered? Am I missing something?
In this case, the buyer would have been protected.
I don't think there is anything wrong with the following: outing an alleged criminal complaining about being ripped off trying to recoup your money back from the above examples paying for the coins anyway you want to
That being said when you pay with Paypal family/friends to avoid the 3% insurance policy then you reap what you sow. When you pay by what ever means to an unknown entity effectively treating them as a known entity you reap what you sow. If you are not careful who you give your money to you reap what you sow. I wish everyone would protect themselves and not rely on gov't (or Corporate) help or involvement. There is risk inherent in everything to do, our job is to minimize it if we are being prudent but in the end you need to watch out and take care of yourselves. Whinning is allowed, complaining is allowed, warning is allowed but asking for gov't (or Corporate) handout imho is bs.
FYI - scratch my Venmo suggestion. There is a clause in their user agreement saying you can't use it for anything commercial. So you can get scammed even if using the 3% credit card option.
fine. close down the BST's and ban anyone who hawks a coin on the site.
What's the point of having all these digital sites (pop, coinfacts, prices, forums, etc) if they make virtually no money and only cause headaches? All the money is derived from ads which in aggregate are negligible.
Overreaction and shortsightedness to even think about that. This has been hashed, and re-hashed, before.
You are being very foolish if you think that these forums don't add to CLCT's bottom line in hard to define ways.
There are likely many other members here, like myself, that started with the forums and then became PCGS members and people that want/use the product. Without the forums here, that is a lot less likely.
There are other ways as well, but I am not going to spend time trying to explain it.
CLCT has some bright folks in charge and if they see a use for the forums, including the BST, then obviously your shortsightedness is something they are already past.
PS....there is a reason that "goodwill" is given value in a company's evaluation. Not everything has to be dollar for dollar in order to be valuable.
I know there is no recourse with Paypal gift. Anyone have any experience with Venmo as a payment method?
I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
Why would anyone listen to this person? He does not use PCGS, he claims he owned 20000 shares and sold the stock a couple of days ago. Now he is on here making recommendations, dumb ones at that, about how we should buy and sell from each other. So PCGS will mediate and then charge the offenders credit card once they rule in your favor? They can't even ship my coins!
I know there is no recourse with Paypal gift. Anyone have any experience with Venmo as a payment method?
I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
Why would anyone listen to this person? He does not use PCGS, he claims he owned 20000 shares and sold the stock a couple of days ago. Now he is on here making recommendations, dumb ones at that, about how we should buy and sell from each other. So PCGS will mediate and then charge the offenders credit card once they rule in your favor? They can't even ship my coins!
Why would anyone listen to a person who uses multiple ids on this forum?
I know there is no recourse with Paypal gift. Anyone have any experience with Venmo as a payment method?
I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
Why would anyone listen to this person? He does not use PCGS, he claims he owned 20000 shares and sold the stock a couple of days ago. Now he is on here making recommendations, dumb ones at that, about how we should buy and sell from each other. So PCGS will mediate and then charge the offenders credit card once they rule in your favor? They can't even ship my coins!
My argument - Keep only paying members on the board
your argument - ignore him, he's not a paying member
me to you - take a logic class.
FYI - I have utilized the BST in the past on multiple occasions and have had successful transactions utilizing, gulp, PP gift where I was the seller.
I am not clear that Paypal and paying 3% gives you 100% protection. How is the seller protected if the buyer claims a SNAD or claims the box was empty when it was delivered? Am I missing something?
Looking both directions before crossing the street isn't 100% protection from being hit by a car, either. But it's a heck of a lot better than running across without looking.
Paying with paypal gift is like running across a low traffic street without looking. Most of the time you'll be fine, but the on occasion you'll get creamed.
look in the real world scams are a dime a dozen but I have learned one thing scammers hate is people who ask lots of questions and know what they are talking about
asking questions will make the scammers nervous cause they know one wrong answer and they are exposed
always ask questions about things that sound and look too good to be true
You simply have to say, I don't know you from Adam and we need to use PayPal invoice. That simple, as was stated 10 times above. If they refuse, you just saved yourself some money from a scam, I would be thinking to myself.
I would follow legal procedure instead of turning your anger away from where it belongs; on the crook. File a police report or internet crime report as well as a fraud report with paypal. Maybe also a usps fraud report with the inspectors. Keep up the pressure until the perp. cries uncle. And I have thought that members on the boards could be on the lookout if a reported numis crime foe is local to one of the other forum members. Nasty when "friends" are really fiends....
Next to useless, especially for small amounts. I went through that process over a couple months on a $2000 scam. The local police dept's, FBI, Finecen, USPS, internet crimes, AG's, consumer protection, etc. all have better things to do with their time than tracking down white collar crime for petty amounts. Most of them would say you should have known better and you apparently can afford to lose that money if you're buying coins. If there's a pattern of dozens of people and tens of thousands of dollars or more, they might do something.
Originally posted by: derryb Isn't paying for a purchase with paypal gift a scam in itself?
probably not a good idea to report yourself to paypal.
Sorry for your loss, thanks for outing him and the dangers of PPG.
Do you have an ebay ID for this seller?
When you send money with PayPal, PayPal is providing a service. They created PayPal Gift for sending money to friends and family. When you are sending money to someone else other than friends and family, PayPal has provided you a service, and when someone provides a service, they should be paid for it. Sorry to be preachy about it, but that is my opinion.
Plus, PayPal Gift doesn't give you any recourse if the deal goes bad.
Completely agree with the above from derryb and RichURich.
With that...just a few thoughts....
I know I am most likely going to get flamed for this, but I refuse to use PPG. I do not have any relatives in need of emergency cash (hope to never have that issue either) and I have no relatives on these boards, although I will continue to work on family recruiting.
PayPal provides a service and they should get paid, if that is their business model and one chooses to use it (just my opinion).
My guess is: if you go to PayPal with this information (as it sounds like you did), they are most likely going to help you out the first time. I recently had a coin that the post office lost. The post office showed and insisted my coin was delivered to my PO Box (That Post Office has huge internal issues and I have since switched locations). I called PayPal and explained what happened and they took the hit (both the seller and I were made whole).
With that said: I do not expect them to do this again anytime soon. It is not PayPal who should cover for the lack of competence at the Post Office.
My point is: You may get your money back but, your account will most likely be flagged moving forward (especially since from the perception of PayPal, you are misusing their system) and you may have used your "one off" to become whole again as well.
One other note: the easiest way to stop these scammers is to use a service like regular PayPal along with these boards to collectively out scammers (thank you for doing that by the way, I definitely appreciate it). Is PayPal perfect every time? No, but again if you are using PayPal in the spirit of how it was meant to be used, I believe you will be afforded some latitude.
I would follow legal procedure instead of turning your anger away from where it belongs; on the crook. File a police report or internet crime report as well as a fraud report with paypal. Maybe also a usps fraud report with the inspectors. Keep up the pressure until the perp. cries uncle. And I have thought that members on the boards could be on the lookout if a reported numis crime foe is local to one of the other forum members. Nasty when "friends" are really fiends....
Next to useless, especially for small amounts. I went through that process over a couple months on a $2000 scam. The local police dept's, FBI, Finecen, USPS, internet crimes, AG's, consumer protection, etc. all have better things to do with their time than tracking down white collar crime for petty amounts. Most of them would say you should have known better and you apparently can afford to lose that money if you're buying coins. If there's a pattern of dozens of people and tens of thousands of dollars or more, they might do something.
It all depends how badly you want to pursue a fraud. Some gumshoes know all the tricks on finding the mystery man/woman and then turning the screws. Fraud aggravates the heck out of me. And I have dealt with some pretty tricky, wiley con artists in my time.
Originally posted by: logger7 I would follow legal procedure instead of turning your anger away from where it belongs; on the crook. File a police report or internet crime report as well as a fraud report with paypal. Maybe also a usps fraud report with the inspectors. Keep up the pressure until the perp. cries uncle. And I have thought that members on the boards could be on the lookout if a reported numis crime foe is local to one of the other forum members. Nasty when "friends" are really fiends....
Next to useless, especially for small amounts. I went through that process over a couple months on a $2000 scam. The local police dept's, FBI, Finecen, USPS, internet crimes, AG's, consumer protection, etc. all have better things to do with their time than tracking down white collar crime for petty amounts. Most of them would say you should have known better and you apparently can afford to lose that money if you're buying coins. If there's a pattern of dozens of people and tens of thousands of dollars or more, they might do something.
Totally agree with rr.....You're spinning you wheels pursuing this via the Law Enforcement scenario. However, If you reside in a very small community (like Mayberry USA) your local Sheriff might be of some help.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Filing a police report can be a useful step; you put on record the fraud for future reference. To not fight fraud emboldens it. And it was one step recently that got me justice; when the local cops emailed the passer of bad checks. With all the millions being put up in "worthy causes", why can't we get a wealthy benefactor to set up a foundation to chase down criminal rip off artists?
Another thread gone sideways with trading of insults.
This is just like the Open Forum days.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
Seems to me the solution is to pay the extra 3% for regular paypal.
I agree with that. You can even improve the situation by using a Citi Double CashBack card through PayPal, which pays you a 2% rebate on all transactions making your net PayPal cost only 1%.
No, I'm not trying to shill Citibank (in fact, I dislike them intensely). But this credit card is a good deal.
Seems to me the solution is to pay the extra 3% for regular paypal.
I agree with that. You can even improve the situation by using a Citi Double CashBack card through PayPal, which pays you a 2% rebate on all transactions making your net PayPal cost only 1%.
No, I'm not trying to shill Citibank (in fact, I dislike them intensely). But this credit card is a good deal.
I do this all the time with my CC (and, it isn't a Citibank) as it gives me 2% back on everything as well.
People that use cards with airline miles also benefit. So, while you may be paying 3% off the top, there are ways, as mentioned above, to lighten the blow
Seems to me the solution is to pay the extra 3% for regular paypal.
I agree with that. You can even improve the situation by using a Citi Double CashBack card through PayPal, which pays you a 2% rebate on all transactions making your net PayPal cost only 1%.
No, I'm not trying to shill Citibank (in fact, I dislike them intensely). But this credit card is a good deal.
Very good point. The net cost is only 1%. Seems like the best way to go using a cash bak card
This did go another direction than I had hoped.. I know I made a mistake, it is a lot easier to say pay the 3% when it goes south, but I can't be the only one on here who made that mistake. I am willing to admit that is it for PayPal gift, only regular and checks for me now.
I do plan to pursue this out and update as I get new information. PayPal was willing to open a case for me and help me out in a tremendous way, and I am hoping that is all I need to do but I am willing to take things further if it comes to that point.
Seems to me the solution is to pay the extra 3% for regular paypal.
I agree with that. You can even improve the situation by using a Citi Double CashBack card through PayPal, which pays you a 2% rebate on all transactions making your net PayPal cost only 1%.
No, I'm not trying to shill Citibank (in fact, I dislike them intensely). But this credit card is a good deal.
Yes, the 2% cashback cc cuts your Regular PayPal expense 67%. Even the more common 1.5% cashback cards cut it in half and provide an extra layer of protection as well. It's the way to go with BST transactions.
PayPal is a payment processor for merchandise and offers buyers protection.
The PP Gift is more of a promotional add-on product designed to make people more comfortable with sending money with PayPal.
And the "Friends and Family" transfers are meant to have very minimal risk, since your friends and family for the most part aren't out to rip you off.
Craigslist does give a notice on it's website warning about sending money via Western Union since it also offers no protection and should also only be used with people you know.
In the virtual world of transferring money there are people who are out there just to steal it and you always need to protect yourself.
File a report with IC3. The Feds won't start an investigation without multiple victims and a loss of at least $25,000 since there is plenty of that to keep them busy.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Originally posted by: logger7 Filing a police report can be a useful step; you put on record the fraud for future reference. To not fight fraud emboldens it. And it was one step recently that got me justice; when the local cops emailed the passer of bad checks. With all the millions being put up in "worthy causes", why can't we get a wealthy benefactor to set up a foundation to chase down criminal rip off artists?
Police in large cities .. take report and file ..don't kid yourself
Here's my logic: When purchasing a coin or bulk coins on the BST here or ATS, always use the regular paypal payment method. It guarantees your protection and you will be rewarded your money back in case there's a scam or "lost coin at PO".
When dealing with people that you do know well on these forums or have done multiple deals with on BST with no problems at all, then yes paypal gift is fine to use and I use it all the time with people that I know or done repeat business with. And I've yet to have any problems paying with paypal gift. Just try to use your best judgment when doing transactions with paypal gift!
Totally agree with rr.....You're spinning you wheels pursuing this via the Law Enforcement scenario. However, If you reside in a very small community (like Mayberry USA) your local Sheriff might be of some help.
Usually it comes down to where the perp lives and how concerned their police are, if at all. What do they care about some fraud by their tax paying "good citizen" committed 1,000 miles away? Once it goes out of state your chances of recovery probably fall off the cliff. I filed my local police report in a town with 8,000 people. The police were concerned. But, they also realized that all they could do was send it along to Atlanta....where they dodged my phone calls and just stopped responding.
My "govt filed" and "policed filed" reports have been gathering dust for 8 years....still waiting for the total amount of the victims to exceed $25,000....lol. I even had the perp's name, address, bank, phone number, and satellite view of their home. The local police still wouldn't call them or knock on their door. They have their own local citizen on local citizen crimes to solve
Originally posted by: dbtunr I know there is no recourse with Paypal gift. Anyone have any experience with Venmo as a payment method?
I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
Why would anyone listen to this person? He does not use PCGS, he claims he owned 20000 shares and sold the stock a couple of days ago. Now he is on here making recommendations, dumb ones at that, about how we should buy and sell from each other. So PCGS will mediate and then charge the offenders credit card once they rule in your favor? They can't even ship my coins!
Originally posted by: dbtunr I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
That has to be one of the dumber things I've read on this forum. The second CLCT would take an active role in the BST transactions (by requiring members to pay), they become involved and would have some liability in the outcome of the transactions. Makes no sense why they would want that involvement. As it is, the BST is just a forum. CLCT stays out of it, remains neutral and has zero liability.
Originally posted by: dbtunr I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
That has to be one of the dumber things I've read on this forum. The second CLCT would take an active role in the BST transactions (by requiring members to pay), they become involved and would have some liability in the outcome of the transactions. Makes no sense why they would want that involvement. As it is, the BST is just a forum. CLCT stays out of it, remains neutral and has zero liability.
I agree.
we make or own choice of who to do business with and what terms we accept including payment methods. We have a great responsibility to lower risk with due diligence. The BST will disappear before CLCT would get involved in any respect as said already , the issue of liability but also they do not make money on the CLCT that is the bottom line.
I as a seller never insist on PPG. I always will offer cell number and more confirming information if asked as a seller. The sellers that insist on PPG or no paypal or money order only I do not buy from at all period. I Don't care about the circle or post counts or whatever I use reg pay-pal and pay the fee and do not buy other wise.
I'm sorry for you thinking you were scammed and for not being in communication with you.I was away tending to a family matter,in Minnesota.I won't apologize for putting my family first.You are correct,I have heard from Paypal.I had several emails from them awaiting me.With the several claims that hit my account,I'm locked out from doing pretty much everything.I won't fight your claim and will be informing Paypal,as well.I had something way further important to me,to handle,I wasn't trying to take yours or anyone else's.money.
Thanks!
Kevin kpcoins
Still having trouble believing him as he said he shipped it to me and a few others.
I get a kick out of the use of "family matters" as clients want to cancel with me and not be responsible for any fees. With the addition of a location or other unnecessary details.
Excuses, I would continue to bore down regardless of unverifiable "circumstances". I had one of these on a guy who bounced a check on me; first it was the delay as a disabled veteren; then because he had been in the hospital with a concussion and had bills; then it was more excuses from either him or the veteran wife; then it was the IRS that put them behind the 8 ball; then he promised to cover it in a few weeks. I got my money out of the scammer.
With my money, you are either professional or you are not.
No grey area. No excuses.
+1, I was a few hours from death back in 2012, and I made sure my coin sales got shipped. I was likely in shock, but still got things done. As the Doc's were trying to take me to Emergency surgery, I told them I know my rights (humor) I get phone calls. The one looked at the other and said, Huh, I dunno does he? The other Doc said ya I guess, roll him over to the phone.
I'm sorry for you thinking you were scammed and for not being in communication with you.I was away tending to a family matter,in Minnesota.I won't apologize for putting my family first.You are correct,I have heard from Paypal.I had several emails from them awaiting me.With the several claims that hit my account,I'm locked out from doing pretty much everything.I won't fight your claim and will be informing Paypal,as well.I had something way further important to me,to handle,I wasn't trying to take yours or anyone else's.money.
Thanks!
Kevin kpcoins
Still having trouble believing him as he said he shipped it to me and a few others.
Total Bull Feathers. He could have refunded money from his account PRIOR to be "locked out"
I travel a lot, and I can access paypal from virtually anywhere in the world.
I just got the exact same email as MorganMan94. Word for word. There is no forgivness for not at least emailing us sooner. How much effort does that take.
Of course he won't fight the claim. That is how this scam works. Paypal refunds the buyers and then has to go to collections against the "seller" who scammed people.
As terrible as they can be (Paypal that is) it is them that often gets caught holding the bag when stuff happens.
Of course he won't fight the claim. That is how this scam works. Paypal refunds the buyers and then has to go to collections against the "seller" who scammed people.
As terrible as they can be (Paypal that is) it is them that often gets caught holding the bag when stuff happens.
In this case it sounds like Paypal will be refunding "Friends and Family" not "buyers". The "seller" was purportedly a "friend" who received a cash gift through Paypal and as such there was nothing to refund. Now I have heard of refunds being made in such situations but it is not standard practice as both the "buyer" and the "seller" violated Paypal rules.
Originally posted by: MilesWaits Things I like about this forum and this thread:
Glad I continue to not use PayPal gift on BST or anywhere else to pay someone.
Thankful for the gifts the Mint gives me and I don't have to worry about whether not there going to be shipped to me. (With no CC fees.)
Happy I see the value of dealing with long-term rather than low post members on the BST.
Elated that I have yet to get shafted.
I prefer checks or in person deals only. I sound like an old fart but the ability to do things like Paypal or Venmo or MO are just too sketchy.
I have not been shafted by any collector on any forum I have done business with.
Now at this very moment I did ship 2 Dahlonega pieces I sold on here and the good old USPS was supposed to deliver it Monday. Nope. Tuesday? Nope. According to the tracking Sunday night around midnight (Technically Monday) it left a Las Vegas tracking facility and has since apparently disappeared. Nobody has any idea where it is.
So the only person that is shafting me is my Post Office.
As you can imagine it is eating me up on the inside right now.
Not a credible response on his part, especially the passive aggressive part. It takes two minutes to refund a payment from anywhere in the country. In this day and age, unless you are the one laid up in the hospital and unable to function, there's no excuse for taking someone's money and not responding. The timing is also way too coincidental to be believable, imo.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Comments
https://www.omnicoin.com/collection/colind?page=1&sort=sort&sale=1&country=0
I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
One should take measures to protect themselves and not rely on others to do it for them.
Regular Paypal is a fine service. Cutting corners to save a few bucks can, occasionally, be costly.
I am not clear that Paypal and paying 3% gives you 100% protection. How is the seller protected if the buyer claims a SNAD or claims the box was empty when it was delivered? Am I missing something?
In this case, the buyer would have been protected.
outing an alleged criminal
complaining about being ripped off
trying to recoup your money back from the above examples
paying for the coins anyway you want to
That being said when you pay with Paypal family/friends to avoid the 3% insurance policy then you reap what you sow.
When you pay by what ever means to an unknown entity effectively treating them as a known entity you reap what you sow.
If you are not careful who you give your money to you reap what you sow.
I wish everyone would protect themselves and not rely on gov't (or Corporate) help or involvement.
There is risk inherent in everything to do, our job is to minimize it if we are being prudent but in the end you need to watch out and take care of yourselves. Whinning is allowed, complaining is allowed, warning is allowed but asking for gov't (or Corporate) handout imho is bs.
Maybe they should just take the BST sections off their board.
If CLCT gets dragged into this muck that's exactly what's going to happen.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
fine. close down the BST's and ban anyone who hawks a coin on the site.
What's the point of having all these digital sites (pop, coinfacts, prices, forums, etc) if they make virtually no money and only cause headaches? All the money is derived from ads which in aggregate are negligible.
Overreaction and shortsightedness to even think about that. This has been hashed, and re-hashed, before.
You are being very foolish if you think that these forums don't add to CLCT's bottom line in hard to define ways.
There are likely many other members here, like myself, that started with the forums and then became PCGS members and people that want/use the product. Without the forums here, that is a lot less likely.
There are other ways as well, but I am not going to spend time trying to explain it.
CLCT has some bright folks in charge and if they see a use for the forums, including the BST, then obviously your shortsightedness is something they are already past.
PS....there is a reason that "goodwill" is given value in a company's evaluation. Not everything has to be dollar for dollar in order to be valuable.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I know there is no recourse with Paypal gift. Anyone have any experience with Venmo as a payment method?
I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
Why would anyone listen to this person? He does not use PCGS, he claims he owned 20000 shares and sold the stock a couple of days ago. Now he is on here making recommendations, dumb ones at that, about how we should buy and sell from each other. So PCGS will mediate and then charge the offenders credit card once they rule in your favor? They can't even ship my coins!
Seems to me the solution is to pay the extra 3% for regular paypal.
i agree. save a whole bunch of greif.
I know there is no recourse with Paypal gift. Anyone have any experience with Venmo as a payment method?
I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
Why would anyone listen to this person? He does not use PCGS, he claims he owned 20000 shares and sold the stock a couple of days ago. Now he is on here making recommendations, dumb ones at that, about how we should buy and sell from each other. So PCGS will mediate and then charge the offenders credit card once they rule in your favor? They can't even ship my coins!
Why would anyone listen to a person who uses multiple ids on this forum?
I know there is no recourse with Paypal gift. Anyone have any experience with Venmo as a payment method?
I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
Why would anyone listen to this person? He does not use PCGS, he claims he owned 20000 shares and sold the stock a couple of days ago. Now he is on here making recommendations, dumb ones at that, about how we should buy and sell from each other. So PCGS will mediate and then charge the offenders credit card once they rule in your favor? They can't even ship my coins!
My argument - Keep only paying members on the board
your argument - ignore him, he's not a paying member
me to you - take a logic class.
FYI - I have utilized the BST in the past on multiple occasions and have had successful transactions utilizing, gulp, PP gift where I was the seller.
I am not clear that Paypal and paying 3% gives you 100% protection. How is the seller protected if the buyer claims a SNAD or claims the box was empty when it was delivered? Am I missing something?
Looking both directions before crossing the street isn't 100% protection from being hit by a car, either. But it's a heck of a lot better than running across without looking.
Paying with paypal gift is like running across a low traffic street without looking. Most of the time you'll be fine, but the on occasion you'll get creamed.
asking questions will make the scammers nervous cause they know one wrong answer and they are exposed
always ask questions about things that sound and look too good to be true
https://www.omnicoin.com/collection/colind?page=1&sort=sort&sale=1&country=0
You simply have to say, I don't know you from Adam and we need to use PayPal invoice. That simple, as was stated 10 times above. If they refuse, you just saved yourself some money from a scam, I would be thinking to myself.
I would follow legal procedure instead of turning your anger away from where it belongs; on the crook. File a police report or internet crime report as well as a fraud report with paypal. Maybe also a usps fraud report with the inspectors. Keep up the pressure until the perp. cries uncle. And I have thought that members on the boards could be on the lookout if a reported numis crime foe is local to one of the other forum members. Nasty when "friends" are really fiends....
Next to useless, especially for small amounts. I went through that process over a couple months on a $2000 scam. The local police dept's, FBI, Finecen, USPS, internet crimes, AG's, consumer protection, etc. all have better things to do with their time than tracking down white collar crime for petty amounts. Most of them would say you should have known better and you apparently can afford to lose that money if you're buying coins. If there's a pattern of dozens of people and tens of thousands of dollars or more, they might do something.
Isn't paying for a purchase with paypal gift a scam in itself?
probably not a good idea to report yourself to paypal.
Sorry for your loss, thanks for outing him and the dangers of PPG.
Do you have an ebay ID for this seller?
When you send money with PayPal, PayPal is providing a service.
They created PayPal Gift for sending money to friends and family.
When you are sending money to someone else other than friends and family,
PayPal has provided you a service, and when someone provides a service,
they should be paid for it. Sorry to be preachy about it, but that is my opinion.
Plus, PayPal Gift doesn't give you any recourse if the deal goes bad.
Completely agree with the above from derryb and RichURich.
With that...just a few thoughts....
I know I am most likely going to get flamed for this, but I refuse to use PPG. I do not have any relatives in need of emergency cash (hope to never have that issue either) and I have no relatives on these boards, although I will continue to work on family recruiting.
PayPal provides a service and they should get paid, if that is their business model and one chooses to use it (just my opinion).
My guess is: if you go to PayPal with this information (as it sounds like you did), they are most likely going to help you out the first time. I recently had a coin that the post office lost. The post office showed and insisted my coin was delivered to my PO Box (That Post Office has huge internal issues and I have since switched locations). I called PayPal and explained what happened and they took the hit (both the seller and I were made whole).
With that said: I do not expect them to do this again anytime soon. It is not PayPal who should cover for the lack of competence at the Post Office.
My point is: You may get your money back but, your account will most likely be flagged moving forward (especially since from the perception of PayPal, you are misusing their system) and you may have used your "one off" to become whole again as well.
One other note: the easiest way to stop these scammers is to use a service like regular PayPal along with these boards to collectively out scammers (thank you for doing that by the way, I definitely appreciate it). Is PayPal perfect every time? No, but again if you are using PayPal in the spirit of how it was meant to be used, I believe you will be afforded some latitude.
Best of luck
Rob
Successful Trades with: Coincast, MICHAELDIXON
Successful Purchases from: Manorcourtman, Meltdown
I would follow legal procedure instead of turning your anger away from where it belongs; on the crook. File a police report or internet crime report as well as a fraud report with paypal. Maybe also a usps fraud report with the inspectors. Keep up the pressure until the perp. cries uncle. And I have thought that members on the boards could be on the lookout if a reported numis crime foe is local to one of the other forum members. Nasty when "friends" are really fiends....
Next to useless, especially for small amounts. I went through that process over a couple months on a $2000 scam. The local police dept's, FBI, Finecen, USPS, internet crimes, AG's, consumer protection, etc. all have better things to do with their time than tracking down white collar crime for petty amounts. Most of them would say you should have known better and you apparently can afford to lose that money if you're buying coins. If there's a pattern of dozens of people and tens of thousands of dollars or more, they might do something.
It all depends how badly you want to pursue a fraud. Some gumshoes know all the tricks on finding the mystery man/woman and then turning the screws. Fraud aggravates the heck out of me. And I have dealt with some pretty tricky, wiley con artists in my time.
I would follow legal procedure instead of turning your anger away from where it belongs; on the crook. File a police report or internet crime report as well as a fraud report with paypal. Maybe also a usps fraud report with the inspectors. Keep up the pressure until the perp. cries uncle. And I have thought that members on the boards could be on the lookout if a reported numis crime foe is local to one of the other forum members. Nasty when "friends" are really fiends....
Next to useless, especially for small amounts. I went through that process over a couple months on a $2000 scam. The local police dept's, FBI, Finecen, USPS, internet crimes, AG's, consumer protection, etc. all have better things to do with their time than tracking down white collar crime for petty amounts. Most of them would say you should have known better and you apparently can afford to lose that money if you're buying coins. If there's a pattern of dozens of people and tens of thousands of dollars or more, they might do something.
Totally agree with rr.....You're spinning you wheels pursuing this via the Law Enforcement scenario. However, If you reside in a very small community (like Mayberry USA) your local Sheriff might be of some help.
When you send money with PayPal, PayPal is providing a service.
They created PayPal Gift for sending money to friends and family.
When you are sending money to someone else other than friends and family,
PayPal has provided you a service, and when someone provides a service,
they should be paid for it. Sorry to be preachy about it, but that is my opinion.
Plus, PayPal Gift doesn't give you any recourse if the deal goes bad.
This is just like the Open Forum days.
Seems to me the solution is to pay the extra 3% for regular paypal.
I agree with that. You can even improve the situation by using a Citi Double CashBack card through PayPal, which pays you a 2% rebate on all transactions making your net PayPal cost only 1%.
No, I'm not trying to shill Citibank (in fact, I dislike them intensely). But this credit card is a good deal.
http://www.shieldnickels.net
Seems to me the solution is to pay the extra 3% for regular paypal.
I agree with that. You can even improve the situation by using a Citi Double CashBack card through PayPal, which pays you a 2% rebate on all transactions making your net PayPal cost only 1%.
No, I'm not trying to shill Citibank (in fact, I dislike them intensely). But this credit card is a good deal.
I do this all the time with my CC (and, it isn't a Citibank) as it gives me 2% back on everything as well.
People that use cards with airline miles also benefit. So, while you may be paying 3% off the top, there are ways, as mentioned above, to lighten the blow
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Seems to me the solution is to pay the extra 3% for regular paypal.
I agree with that. You can even improve the situation by using a Citi Double CashBack card through PayPal, which pays you a 2% rebate on all transactions making your net PayPal cost only 1%.
No, I'm not trying to shill Citibank (in fact, I dislike them intensely). But this credit card is a good deal.
Very good point. The net cost is only 1%. Seems like the best way to go using a cash bak card
I do plan to pursue this out and update as I get new information. PayPal was willing to open a case for me and help me out in a tremendous way, and I am hoping that is all I need to do but I am willing to take things further if it comes to that point.
Seems to me the solution is to pay the extra 3% for regular paypal.
I agree with that. You can even improve the situation by using a Citi Double CashBack card through PayPal, which pays you a 2% rebate on all transactions making your net PayPal cost only 1%.
No, I'm not trying to shill Citibank (in fact, I dislike them intensely). But this credit card is a good deal.
Yes, the 2% cashback cc cuts your Regular PayPal expense 67%. Even the more common 1.5% cashback cards cut it in half and provide an extra layer of protection as well. It's the way to go with BST transactions.
The PP Gift is more of a promotional add-on product designed to make people more comfortable with sending money with PayPal.
And the "Friends and Family" transfers are meant to have very minimal risk, since your friends and family for the most part aren't out to rip you off.
Craigslist does give a notice on it's website warning about sending money via Western Union since it also offers no protection and should also only be used with people you know.
In the virtual world of transferring money there are people who are out there just to steal it and you always need to protect yourself.
File a report with IC3.
The Feds won't start an investigation without multiple victims and a loss of at least $25,000 since there is plenty of that to keep them busy.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Filing a police report can be a useful step; you put on record the fraud for future reference. To not fight fraud emboldens it. And it was one step recently that got me justice; when the local cops emailed the passer of bad checks. With all the millions being put up in "worthy causes", why can't we get a wealthy benefactor to set up a foundation to chase down criminal rip off artists?
Police in large cities .. take report and file ..don't kid yourself
When dealing with people that you do know well on these forums or have done multiple deals with on BST with no problems at all, then yes paypal gift is fine to use and I use it all the time with people that I know or done repeat business with. And I've yet to have any problems paying with paypal gift. Just try to use your best judgment when doing transactions with paypal gift!
Totally agree with rr.....You're spinning you wheels pursuing this via the Law Enforcement scenario. However, If you reside in a very small community (like Mayberry USA) your local Sheriff might be of some help.
Usually it comes down to where the perp lives and how concerned their police are, if at all. What do they care about some fraud by their tax paying "good citizen" committed 1,000 miles away? Once it goes out of state your chances of recovery probably fall off the cliff. I filed my local police report in a town with 8,000 people. The police were concerned. But, they also realized that all they could do was send it along to Atlanta....where they dodged my phone calls and just stopped responding.
My "govt filed" and "policed filed" reports have been gathering dust for 8 years....still waiting for the total amount of the victims to exceed $25,000....lol. I even had the perp's name, address, bank, phone number, and satellite view of their home. The local police still wouldn't call them or knock on their door. They have their own local citizen on local citizen crimes to solve
I know there is no recourse with Paypal gift. Anyone have any experience with Venmo as a payment method?
I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
Why would anyone listen to this person? He does not use PCGS, he claims he owned 20000 shares and sold the stock a couple of days ago. Now he is on here making recommendations, dumb ones at that, about how we should buy and sell from each other. So PCGS will mediate and then charge the offenders credit card once they rule in your favor? They can't even ship my coins!
My YouTube Channel
I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
That has to be one of the dumber things I've read on this forum. The second CLCT would take an active role in the BST transactions (by requiring members to pay), they become involved and would have some liability in the outcome of the transactions. Makes no sense why they would want that involvement. As it is, the BST is just a forum. CLCT stays out of it, remains neutral and has zero liability.
I would also advocate to CLCT to allow only paying members to access the BST. These scams seem to be more frequent than not. CLCT would at least have a name, address and credit card number on file.
That has to be one of the dumber things I've read on this forum. The second CLCT would take an active role in the BST transactions (by requiring members to pay), they become involved and would have some liability in the outcome of the transactions. Makes no sense why they would want that involvement. As it is, the BST is just a forum. CLCT stays out of it, remains neutral and has zero liability.
I agree.
we make or own choice of who to do business with and what terms we accept including payment methods. We have a great responsibility to lower risk with due diligence. The BST will disappear before CLCT would get involved in any respect as said already , the issue of liability but also they do not make money on the CLCT that is the bottom line.
I as a seller never insist on PPG. I always will offer cell number and more confirming information if asked as a seller. The sellers that insist on PPG or no paypal or money order only I do not buy from at all period. I Don't care about the circle or post counts or whatever I use reg pay-pal and pay the fee and do not buy other wise.
Matt,
I'm sorry for you thinking you were scammed and for not being in communication with you.I was away tending to a family matter,in Minnesota.I won't apologize for putting my family first.You are correct,I have heard from Paypal.I had several emails from them awaiting me.With the several claims that hit my account,I'm locked out from doing pretty much everything.I won't fight your claim and will be informing Paypal,as well.I had something way further important to me,to handle,I wasn't trying to take yours or anyone else's.money.
Thanks!
Kevin kpcoins
Still having trouble believing him as he said he shipped it to me and a few others.
In any case sounds like you paid with a cc or thru paypal, so you do have some protection. file the claim and move on, if you haven;t already
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
No grey area. No excuses.
With my money, you are either professional or you are not.
No grey area. No excuses.
+1, I was a few hours from death back in 2012, and I made sure my coin sales got shipped. I was likely in shock, but still got things done. As the Doc's were trying to take me to Emergency surgery, I told them I know my rights (humor) I get phone calls. The one looked at the other and said, Huh, I dunno does he? The other Doc said ya I guess, roll him over to the phone.
Just heard from the seller, this is what it said.
Matt,
I'm sorry for you thinking you were scammed and for not being in communication with you.I was away tending to a family matter,in Minnesota.I won't apologize for putting my family first.You are correct,I have heard from Paypal.I had several emails from them awaiting me.With the several claims that hit my account,I'm locked out from doing pretty much everything.I won't fight your claim and will be informing Paypal,as well.I had something way further important to me,to handle,I wasn't trying to take yours or anyone else's.money.
Thanks!
Kevin kpcoins
Still having trouble believing him as he said he shipped it to me and a few others.
Total Bull Feathers. He could have refunded money from his account PRIOR to be "locked out"
I travel a lot, and I can access paypal from virtually anywhere in the world.
If I can't ship it ASAP, refund ASAP
There is no forgivness for not at least emailing us sooner.
How much effort does that take.
Plenty of high dollar transactions :
jdimmick, commoncents05, Smittys, guitarwes
As terrible as they can be (Paypal that is) it is them that often gets caught holding the bag when stuff happens.
so what happened to the item you bought? did family matters eat it?
My Ebay Store
Of course he won't fight the claim. That is how this scam works. Paypal refunds the buyers and then has to go to collections against the "seller" who scammed people.
As terrible as they can be (Paypal that is) it is them that often gets caught holding the bag when stuff happens.
In this case it sounds like Paypal will be refunding "Friends and Family" not "buyers". The "seller" was purportedly a "friend" who received a cash gift through Paypal and as such there was nothing to refund. Now I have heard of refunds being made in such situations but it is not standard practice as both the "buyer" and the "seller" violated Paypal rules.
Glad I continue to not use PayPal gift on BST or anywhere else to pay someone.
Thankful for the gifts the Mint gives me and I don't have to worry about whether not there going to be shipped to me.
(With no CC fees.)
Happy I see the value of dealing with long-term rather than low post members on the BST.
Elated that I have yet to get shafted.
Things I like about this forum and this thread:
Glad I continue to not use PayPal gift on BST or anywhere else to pay someone.
Thankful for the gifts the Mint gives me and I don't have to worry about whether not there going to be shipped to me.
(With no CC fees.)
Happy I see the value of dealing with long-term rather than low post members on the BST.
Elated that I have yet to get shafted.
I prefer checks or in person deals only. I sound like an old fart but the ability to do things like Paypal or Venmo or MO are just too sketchy.
I have not been shafted by any collector on any forum I have done business with.
Now at this very moment I did ship 2 Dahlonega pieces I sold on here and the good old USPS was supposed to deliver it Monday. Nope.
Tuesday? Nope.
According to the tracking Sunday night around midnight (Technically Monday) it left a Las Vegas tracking facility and has since apparently disappeared. Nobody has any idea where it is.
So the only person that is shafting me is my Post Office.
As you can imagine it is eating me up on the inside right now.
No excuses when it comes to not following through. If you receive $ then it is your responsibility to uphold your end of the deal.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.