The so-called "black book" for me. Fortunately, just about all were identified as counterfeit before purchase. And some are worth more than the genuine article. I found a counterfeit 1870 Shield nickel at a show that is worth well over the $17 I paid. Also, I would pay a large sum of money for a 1923-D or 1930-D Mercury dime, 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1931 Standing Liberty quarter, 1933 quarter, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1816 half, 1915 Walker, 1928-D Walker, 1964 Franklin half, 1975 quarter, half or dollar, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Funny, I just came across this 2006 post by accident while searching for something else.
Since then (and no, I did not use the above post as a roadmap since I was never aware of it until now):
Uncanny. Great minds think alike, I guess
You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D
and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
Have only ever seen one of the counterfeit 1915-D half eagles. Have never seen a 1928-D half dollar.
TD
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author of "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
I knew a dealer that kept them in a tray tucked away in his safe........and when things got slow in the shop and counterfeits came up he'd pull em out and educate whomever was around, he had quite a few good one's that fooled quite a few of us.
You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D
and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
Have only ever seen one of the counterfeit 1915-D half eagles. Have never seen a 1928-D half dollar.
TD
That's great info, TD! Thanks!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Originally posted by: RichieURich You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
I'd like to see pictures of your 1923-D and 1930-D dimes, if you have any. I've seen a so-so photo of a 1923-D but never one of a 1930-D. I'd also like to buy one of each if you ever run across any extras.
My criteria for fantasy-date over-strikes is that in general they must be dates that don't exist for that type. 1846 dimes, 1928 half dollars, and 1915 half eagles all exist already (just not with certain mint marks). So those are not ones that I would do.
But I might at some point do the non-statehood "1999" quarters.
The 1891 Barber half dollar exists as a pattern, I think. I'm not sure about the dime and quarter - I need to get a Judd book.
You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D
and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
I'd like to see pictures of your 1923-D and 1930-D dimes, if you have any.
I've seen a so-so photo of a 1923-D but never one of a 1930-D.
I'd also like to buy one of each if you ever run across any extras.
My criteria for fantasy-date over-strikes is that in general they must be dates that don't exist for that type. 1846 dimes, 1928 half dollars, and 1915 half eagles all exist already (just not with certain mint marks). So those are not ones that I would do.
But I might at some point do the non-statehood "1999" quarters.
The 1891 Barber half dollar exists as a pattern, I think. I'm not sure about the dime and quarter - I need to get a Judd book.
Here are the 1923-D and 1930-D dimes:
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
I donate any counterfeits I receive (I sometimes receive counterfeits from collectors who don't know what else to do with them) to one of my coin clubs (usually the Fly-In Club) for educational purposes. Rick often brings all the counterfeits to one of our club meetings and discusses how the counterfeit (or altered coin) was made and lets everyone to examine them. It's very helpful, because some of the counterfeits are so well made.
I believe the ANA also has a library of counterfeits and will gladly take donations as well.
Also, if you ask, the club will usually issue you a receipt for what you paid for the coin which you may be able to use as a write off for tax purposes.
Originally posted by: dcarr ... The 1891 Barber half dollar exists as a pattern, I think. I'm not sure about the dime and quarter - I need to get a Judd book.
Thanks, that is what I thought. So "1891" is out for Barber over-strikes (dime, quarter, half) because they already exist. I already did "1916" over-strike Barber half dollars. For the dime and quarter it would have to be "1890" or "1917".
Originally posted by: RichieURich You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
I'd like to see pictures of your 1923-D and 1930-D dimes, if you have any. I've seen a so-so photo of a 1923-D but never one of a 1930-D. I'd also like to buy one of each if you ever run across any extras.
My criteria for fantasy-date over-strikes is that in general they must be dates that don't exist for that type. 1846 dimes, 1928 half dollars, and 1915 half eagles all exist already (just not with certain mint marks). So those are not ones that I would do.
But I might at some point do the non-statehood "1999" quarters.
The 1891 Barber half dollar exists as a pattern, I think. I'm not sure about the dime and quarter - I need to get a Judd book.
Here are the 1923-D and 1930-D dimes:
Thanks for the pictures. I like those. Interesting how the "1930" date is so slanted. I would potentially be in the market for ones like that. I've got 1939 and 1944 no-P "Henning" nickels. These dimes appear to be a lot rarer than the 1944 no-P nickels.
There are so many counterfeits out there.... I did purchase a 1902 CC Morgan from an antique shop in town....I just keep it as an example. Cheers, RickO
I sent a few to the ANA some years ago and got a "gift of deed" for doing such. They can use some counterfeits for teaching.
Most recently took an 1873 quarter eagle coin (counterfeit), to the refinery and melted it. It tested .900 and of course with refining fees, I lost... Not to mention the cost of gas, mileage and time.
PCGS didn't grade it, as their experts deemed it "not genuine". And had I trusted my instincts, initially... I would have bought it at ten percent back of spot or more.
No great loss (but they add up)...
Such is life in the world of "coins".
Funny thing is : I told a friend, who's a lawyer, that I wanted to sue the guy who sold it to me. He asked : "So if you get a court date and sue him and the judge calls the expert witness, who you gonna call ? " Ooops. Thankfully this one cost under $1,000. But the idea of getting them makes me cringe.
I like those. Interesting how the "1930" date is so slanted.
I would potentially be in the market for ones like that.
I've got 1939 and 1944 no-P "Henning" nickels.
These dimes appear to be a lot rarer than the 1944 no-P nickels.
The dimes are way, way rarer than the Henning nickels.
In David Lange's book, he states that there was a count of 47 of the 1923-D dimes, and an unknown quantity of 1930-D (but less than the 1923-D).
However, I spoke with several long-time dealers at ANA, (incl. Julian!) all of whom stated that they had never seen an example of either one in hand. If Julian hasn't seen a coin, you know it has to be really rare.
I would be in the market for any Henning nickels other than the 1944's.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D
and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
I'd like to see pictures of your 1923-D and 1930-D dimes, if you have any.
I've seen a so-so photo of a 1923-D but never one of a 1930-D.
I'd also like to buy one of each if you ever run across any extras.
My criteria for fantasy-date over-strikes is that in general they must be dates that don't exist for that type. 1846 dimes, 1928 half dollars, and 1915 half eagles all exist already (just not with certain mint marks). So those are not ones that I would do.
But I might at some point do the non-statehood "1999" quarters.
The 1891 Barber half dollar exists as a pattern, I think. I'm not sure about the dime and quarter - I need to get a Judd book.
Here are the 1923-D and 1930-D dimes:
Thanks for the pictures.
I like those. Interesting how the "1930" date is so slanted.
I would potentially be in the market for ones like that.
I've got 1939 and 1944 no-P "Henning" nickels.
These dimes appear to be a lot rarer than the 1944 no-P nickels.
In your opinion, is the "D" reverse die the same die on both coins? Many a counterfeiter has used an undated counterfeit die with two or more dated opposing dies.
What style D is that? Is it the style used up to and including 1934, or the style used in 1934 and after?
The counterfeiter must have had a genuine coin struck in Denver to copy his reverse die from. I see no reason why he would not have made a counterfeit obverse die from that coin, unless of course his die-making process was crude and destroyed the model coin when the first die was made from it (as in an impact die).
Is it likely that other date and mint mark combinations were made by the same counterfeiter? Are there any suspect contemporary counterfeits that you think might have been made by the same people that just never got noticed because the date and mint mark combinations exist in real life?
TD
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author of "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
There was another thread here recently about 1916-S vintage counterfeit nickels. Maybe those are of Soviet origin also ?
Although these dimes are attributed to Soviet origin, that does not necessarily mean that they were put out by the Soviet government. They could have been privately produced for an individual's profit. Since they are so rare, that is likely the case.
The 1930-D obverse is not a direct simple transfer die because the date is slanted so much. So that die was produced using some other method, or had other engraving techniques applied to it. Such as scraping the date of the model coin, making a transfer of it, and then engraving a new date on the die.
Has anybody ever done a good elemental analysis of either a 1923-D or a 1930-D dime? Would be curious to know what is in them.
Perhaps a little borscht?
;-)
Numismatist. 54 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Author of "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
I'm not sure the Soviet Union would bother with counterfeit coins. They did make excellent counterfeits of the large size $100 notes of that era, though.
I donate any counterfeits I receive (I sometimes receive counterfeits from collectors who don't know what else to do with them) to one of my coin clubs (usually the Fly-In Club) for educational purposes. Rick often brings all the counterfeits to one of our club meetings and discusses how the counterfeit (or altered coin) was made and lets everyone to examine them. It's very helpful, because some of the counterfeits are so well made.
I believe the ANA also has a library of counterfeits and will gladly take donations as well.
Also, if you ask, the club will usually issue you a receipt for what you paid for the coin which you may be able to use as a write off for tax purposes.
The ANA does have a library of counterfeits they use for educational purposes and they will give you a receipt for tax purposes.
Here is what one did!! they put a fake Chineese copy of a 1924s buffalo nickel on flea bay. it sold for over a grand! I will always wonder if they new it was a fake. flea bay does not allow the selling of chinese fakes anymore. at least that is what they say. here is is.....
One area shop manager told me about "Mike" who ran his own shop, also doubled as a jeweler fashioning "key date" coins like 1916-D Merc. dimes in his idle moments and selling them as good coins. The only downside for people like that usually is a return and a full or partial refund. Scammed people are usually just relieved to get their money back. And then I was talking to a seller of a conservation product who spoke about someone walking into his store with some 1932-D quarters that looked good but just to be sure he put them in an ultrasonic cleaner while he socialized with the guy. Sure enough the "D's" were floating before long.
Comments
The so-called "black book" for me. Fortunately, just about all were identified as counterfeit before purchase. And some are worth more than the genuine article. I found a counterfeit 1870 Shield nickel at a show that is worth well over the $17 I paid. Also, I would pay a large sum of money for a 1923-D or 1930-D Mercury dime, 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1931 Standing Liberty quarter, 1933 quarter, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1816 half, 1915 Walker, 1928-D Walker, 1964 Franklin half, 1975 quarter, half or dollar, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Funny, I just came across this 2006 post by accident while searching for something else.
Since then (and no, I did not use the above post as a roadmap since I was never aware of it until now):
Uncanny. Great minds think alike, I guess
You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D
and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
Have only ever seen one of the counterfeit 1915-D half eagles. Have never seen a 1928-D half dollar.
TD
counterfeits came up he'd pull em out and educate whomever was around, he had quite a few good one's that
fooled quite a few of us.
Steve
You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D
and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
Have only ever seen one of the counterfeit 1915-D half eagles. Have never seen a 1928-D half dollar.
TD
That's great info, TD! Thanks!
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D
and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
I'd like to see pictures of your 1923-D and 1930-D dimes, if you have any.
I've seen a so-so photo of a 1923-D but never one of a 1930-D.
I'd also like to buy one of each if you ever run across any extras.
My criteria for fantasy-date over-strikes is that in general they must be dates that don't exist for that type. 1846 dimes, 1928 half dollars, and 1915 half eagles all exist already (just not with certain mint marks). So those are not ones that I would do.
But I might at some point do the non-statehood "1999" quarters.
The 1891 Barber half dollar exists as a pattern, I think. I'm not sure about the dime and quarter - I need to get a Judd book.
...
The 1891 Barber half dollar exists as a pattern, I think. I'm not sure about the dime and quarter - I need to get a Judd book.
There is a great online resource hosted by some of the members here:
1891 Barber dime
1891 Barber quarter
1891 Barber half
Edit - updated the links to say "Barber"
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D
and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
I'd like to see pictures of your 1923-D and 1930-D dimes, if you have any.
I've seen a so-so photo of a 1923-D but never one of a 1930-D.
I'd also like to buy one of each if you ever run across any extras.
My criteria for fantasy-date over-strikes is that in general they must be dates that don't exist for that type. 1846 dimes, 1928 half dollars, and 1915 half eagles all exist already (just not with certain mint marks). So those are not ones that I would do.
But I might at some point do the non-statehood "1999" quarters.
The 1891 Barber half dollar exists as a pattern, I think. I'm not sure about the dime and quarter - I need to get a Judd book.
Here are the 1923-D and 1930-D dimes:
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
I believe the ANA also has a library of counterfeits and will gladly take donations as well.
Also, if you ask, the club will usually issue you a receipt for what you paid for the coin which you may be able to use as a write off for tax purposes.
The Penny Lady®
...
The 1891 Barber half dollar exists as a pattern, I think. I'm not sure about the dime and quarter - I need to get a Judd book.
There is a great online resource hosted by some of the members here:
1891 dime
1891 quarter
1891 half
Thanks, that is what I thought.
So "1891" is out for Barber over-strikes (dime, quarter, half) because they already exist.
I already did "1916" over-strike Barber half dollars. For the dime and quarter it would have to be "1890" or "1917".
You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D
and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
I'd like to see pictures of your 1923-D and 1930-D dimes, if you have any.
I've seen a so-so photo of a 1923-D but never one of a 1930-D.
I'd also like to buy one of each if you ever run across any extras.
My criteria for fantasy-date over-strikes is that in general they must be dates that don't exist for that type. 1846 dimes, 1928 half dollars, and 1915 half eagles all exist already (just not with certain mint marks). So those are not ones that I would do.
But I might at some point do the non-statehood "1999" quarters.
The 1891 Barber half dollar exists as a pattern, I think. I'm not sure about the dime and quarter - I need to get a Judd book.
Here are the 1923-D and 1930-D dimes:
Thanks for the pictures.
I like those. Interesting how the "1930" date is so slanted.
I would potentially be in the market for ones like that.
I've got 1939 and 1944 no-P "Henning" nickels.
These dimes appear to be a lot rarer than the 1944 no-P nickels.
Most recently took an 1873 quarter eagle coin (counterfeit), to the refinery and melted it. It tested .900 and of course with refining fees, I lost... Not to mention the cost of gas, mileage and time.
PCGS didn't grade it, as their experts deemed it "not genuine".
No great loss (but they add up)...
Such is life in the world of "coins".
Funny thing is : I told a friend, who's a lawyer, that I wanted to sue the guy who sold it to me. He asked : "So if you get a court date and sue him and the judge calls the expert witness, who you gonna call ? " Ooops. Thankfully this one cost under $1,000. But the idea of getting them makes me cringe.
GRIND EM UP
MELT EM
DESTROY THEM
BE RID OF THEM
They're the ______ that make the coin world suck.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Thanks for the pictures.
I like those. Interesting how the "1930" date is so slanted.
I would potentially be in the market for ones like that.
I've got 1939 and 1944 no-P "Henning" nickels.
These dimes appear to be a lot rarer than the 1944 no-P nickels.
The dimes are way, way rarer than the Henning nickels.
In David Lange's book, he states that there was a count of 47 of the 1923-D dimes, and an unknown quantity of 1930-D (but less than the 1923-D).
However, I spoke with several long-time dealers at ANA, (incl. Julian!) all of whom stated that they had never seen an example of either one in hand. If Julian hasn't seen a coin, you know it has to be really rare.
I would be in the market for any Henning nickels other than the 1944's.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
You are correct, Daniel! I have all of those you pictured, plus I recently posted my 1923-D
and 1930-D Soviet dime counterfeits.
I am still looking for the 1846-O dime, 1891 Barber dime, quarter or half, 1999 quarter with the pre-1999 eagle reverse, 1928-D Walker, 1805 Bust dollar, or 1915-D half eagle. Just PM me.
Thanks for reviving this old thread!
I'd like to see pictures of your 1923-D and 1930-D dimes, if you have any.
I've seen a so-so photo of a 1923-D but never one of a 1930-D.
I'd also like to buy one of each if you ever run across any extras.
My criteria for fantasy-date over-strikes is that in general they must be dates that don't exist for that type. 1846 dimes, 1928 half dollars, and 1915 half eagles all exist already (just not with certain mint marks). So those are not ones that I would do.
But I might at some point do the non-statehood "1999" quarters.
The 1891 Barber half dollar exists as a pattern, I think. I'm not sure about the dime and quarter - I need to get a Judd book.
Here are the 1923-D and 1930-D dimes:
Thanks for the pictures.
I like those. Interesting how the "1930" date is so slanted.
I would potentially be in the market for ones like that.
I've got 1939 and 1944 no-P "Henning" nickels.
These dimes appear to be a lot rarer than the 1944 no-P nickels.
In your opinion, is the "D" reverse die the same die on both coins? Many a counterfeiter has used an undated counterfeit die with two or more dated opposing dies.
What style D is that? Is it the style used up to and including 1934, or the style used in 1934 and after?
The counterfeiter must have had a genuine coin struck in Denver to copy his reverse die from. I see no reason why he would not have made a counterfeit obverse die from that coin, unless of course his die-making process was crude and destroyed the model coin when the first die was made from it (as in an impact die).
Is it likely that other date and mint mark combinations were made by the same counterfeiter? Are there any suspect contemporary counterfeits that you think might have been made by the same people that just never got noticed because the date and mint mark combinations exist in real life?
TD
Maybe those are of Soviet origin also ?
Although these dimes are attributed to Soviet origin, that does not necessarily mean that they were put out by the Soviet government.
They could have been privately produced for an individual's profit. Since they are so rare, that is likely the case.
The 1930-D obverse is not a direct simple transfer die because the date is slanted so much. So that die was produced using some other method, or had other engraving techniques applied to it. Such as scraping the date of the model coin, making a transfer of it, and then engraving a new date on the die.
Perhaps a little borscht?
;-)
Pacific Northwest Numismatic Association
I donate any counterfeits I receive (I sometimes receive counterfeits from collectors who don't know what else to do with them) to one of my coin clubs (usually the Fly-In Club) for educational purposes. Rick often brings all the counterfeits to one of our club meetings and discusses how the counterfeit (or altered coin) was made and lets everyone to examine them. It's very helpful, because some of the counterfeits are so well made.
I believe the ANA also has a library of counterfeits and will gladly take donations as well.
Also, if you ask, the club will usually issue you a receipt for what you paid for the coin which you may be able to use as a write off for tax purposes.
The ANA does have a library of counterfeits they use for educational purposes and they will give you a receipt for tax purposes.
they put a fake Chineese copy of a 1924s buffalo nickel on flea bay.
it sold for over a grand!
I will always wonder if they new it was a fake.
flea bay does not allow the selling of chinese fakes anymore.
at least that is what they say.
here is is.....
[URL=http://s1012.photobucket.com/user/buffnixx/media/51gOaS62G4L_zpsrbowcaoo.jpg.html]
[URL=http://s1012.photobucket.com/user/buffnixx/media/51q5lDDm4pL_zpsilazavdj.jpg.html]
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"