A somewhat rare and interesting coin that came across the counter yesterday.
keets
Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
We are a Jewelry - Coin - Pawn operation and since we are many things rolled into one location we get a lot of interesting items that walk into the shop. Last week we actually bought a 6+ Carat Canary Yellow diamond that is almost flawless and just today I answered a call from someone who wanted to know if we would buy a Breast Pump!!! Wowzer!!!
The things that really get my attention are the coin related items. I posted about some of those with regularity last year until certain members started to give me grief, but another cool one came in today and I will take the chance and post about it.
A guy comes to the counter holding a coin loose in his hand, drops in on the counter as I approach and he asks if I know what it is. To my amazement I do, it's a 1936 Cleveland Commemorative Half-Dollar that was counter-stamped in 1941 by the Western Reserve Numismatic Club. A quick examination shows that the two stamps are crisp and unmarked, the coin has mottled overall tone and would probably grade AU58-MS62. I gave him a little history about it and he took out a small loan against it.
I'm not really sure how many of these were struck by the WRNC, most likely they asked members to bring in a coin and then they counter-stamped them. I have owned two and had them both encapsulated by NGC at MS66, but this is the first I have seen since about 2005-6.
It is in our safe and I'm not able to photograph it and my pictures of the past coins are at home, maybe I can post a picture this evening. Does anyone besides Truthteller own one or know where any are?? Do any Classic Commemorative collectors own any or are looking for them?? Can anyone wager an estimate on how many there are??
Al H.
The things that really get my attention are the coin related items. I posted about some of those with regularity last year until certain members started to give me grief, but another cool one came in today and I will take the chance and post about it.
A guy comes to the counter holding a coin loose in his hand, drops in on the counter as I approach and he asks if I know what it is. To my amazement I do, it's a 1936 Cleveland Commemorative Half-Dollar that was counter-stamped in 1941 by the Western Reserve Numismatic Club. A quick examination shows that the two stamps are crisp and unmarked, the coin has mottled overall tone and would probably grade AU58-MS62. I gave him a little history about it and he took out a small loan against it.
I'm not really sure how many of these were struck by the WRNC, most likely they asked members to bring in a coin and then they counter-stamped them. I have owned two and had them both encapsulated by NGC at MS66, but this is the first I have seen since about 2005-6.
It is in our safe and I'm not able to photograph it and my pictures of the past coins are at home, maybe I can post a picture this evening. Does anyone besides Truthteller own one or know where any are?? Do any Classic Commemorative collectors own any or are looking for them?? Can anyone wager an estimate on how many there are??
Al H.
2
Comments
Would love to see a pic!
bob
Link to commem
K
This is a Heritage Auctions image of an MS-65 example in a
NGC holder. It sold for about $1,762.50 in 2012.
R.I.P. Bear
this one is from 1996 and what I would term as spurious in nature. someone got ahold of the obverse stamp, made a reverse stamp and then went hog wild!! I was at a MSNS Dearborn show around 2003 and there was an upstate New York dealer there who had perhaps 20 items of every ilk c'stamped with these dies. at that time I was hip deep into them but backed away because something didn't seem right.
in hindsight, if there were some sort of traceable origin I would have purchased on. the dealer could provide any such information despite the fact that he had so many items. I suspect he may have been the origin or knew who was.
With the counterstamp,the piece cannot be called mint-state since the piece didn't leave the mint with a counterstamp on it?
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
is it because the counterstamp is attractive?
NGC grades them and it is most likely because it was in the Breen Encyclopedia and is recognized by Commemorative collectors, Numismatists and the Hobby in general. for reasons not everyone agrees with the c'stamp is significant.
.......................hey, Marty, we laugh about that all the time.
The 1941 WRNC half counterstamp was done by Bastian Brothers.
In 1971, Robert McNamara of Heraldic Art did the below pieces.
And in 1996, Ron Landis of Gallery Mint did a 3rd set of counterstamps.
Given the prices, these seem quite collectible. It's nice that they were struck by well known engravers
I also had one of the 1971's on a Cleveland Commemorative that I sold and I think I still have a 1921 Morgan, a 1ozt. Silver bar with that die, two of the larger medals and even two Sets that are similar from the 1964 ANA Show held in Cleveland. it's interesting that Ron Landis did the third dies, I wonder who he did them for?? whoever it was, they certainly stamped a much wider variety of items and many, many more than the previous two celebrations. I suppose that by 1996 using a Cleveland Commemorative was cost prohibitive.
of the three strikes, I believe the 1971 was the smallest.
The counterstamps,while not totally unattractive,are a kind of indignity foisted on the piece by the Western Numismatic Club. Nose,mouth and chin only of Moses Cleaveland's portrait jutting out from the obverse counterstamp goes along way in "weirdifying" the piece.
What is the relevance of the 20th anniversary of the Western Numismatic Club of Cleveland Ohio to the 1936 Cleveland commemorative half dollar I ask?
The founder of Cleveland Ohio was
Moses Cleaveland
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
How much for the diamond?
Almost flawless means it is a 50K+ rock. I also am interested in what a pawn shop pays for such an item!
keets, how much for the breast pump?
Lance.
How much for the diamond?
Almost flawless means it is a 50K+ rock. I also am interested in what a pawn shop pays for such an item!
Probably as little as possible. It would be the sort of thing that you'd want to get more than one opinion/appraisal about/for.
How much for the diamond?
Almost flawless means it is a 50K+ rock. I also am interested in what a pawn shop pays for such an item!
+1
My YouTube Channel
Considering that pawn peeps check around as much or more than coin peeps, a really NICE diamond will get a VERY competitive offer.
I loved to loan big. It usually led to default and my SELLING it!
There are still a few of them.
They are finding it harder and harder to compete with pawn BUSINESSES!
The misinformation on pawnshops is staggering.
Such as a haven for STOLEN GOODS!
TINY percentage of stolen stuff
I loved to loan big. It usually led to default and my SELLING it!
That's a great strategy. Yesterday I was at a bullion/coin B & M shop and the owner's wife said that they sometimes get other pawn shop owners, etc. who get stung buying junk gold and try to foist it off on them.
The way to end a pawnshop thread is to disseminate REAL facts about pawnshops and not the stereotypical tales of yesteryear's hock schlocks.
There are still a few of them.
They are finding it harder and harder to compete with pawn BUSINESSES!
The misinformation on pawnshops is staggering.
Such as a haven for STOLEN GOODS!
TINY percentage of stolen stuff
There are several around here now where there used to be IIRC just one.
Did you make an offer on the Pump?
no we passed, and it isn't the first time someone has offered something like that!!
on a related note, why does everyone have to be so negative?? and, strangely, it's the usual suspects. I think I could start a thread like this and sit back to wait about who will enter and post the comments about how Pawn Shops and Coin Shops only rip people off, never pay fairly and are a haven for stolen goods. it is all so predictable. another ridiculous thing is that everyone seems to think they need to be made a party to every transaction, that for some reason they are entitled to know what a dealer pays for anything.
I guess those are the sorts of things which made me stop posting in the past.
I pay 70% of melt for junk silver and flatware. I also adjust that up or down depending on the situation, since I only buy from friends and friends of friends and I'm doing it more as a chaplain than as a professional. I pay more if it's a little old lady selling stuff off to pay for cancer treatments, and I pay less if the seller is rude to me.
My friends who have pawn/coin shops generally pay about 10% - 20% for most gold/silver/diamonds. Of course the more desirable the higher the percentage, generally.
I used to get mad too when people would complain about how unfair it is that dealers buy at pennies on the dollar. That's one of the reasons I became a licensed appraiser. Now I take the time to explain to them about overhead and the time value of money. Sometimes they listen and I feel good. Other times they take offense that that allows me to lower my offer substantially.
I guess I'm the opposite of many people - they are worried about divulging trade secrets, while I will tell anyone who wants to listen every trade secret that I know. Reverse psychology, doncha know?
Did you make an offer on the Pump?
I wonder if the seller tried to milk it for all it was worth?
good luck.
Did you make an offer on the Pump?
no we passed, and it isn't the first time someone has offered something like that!!
on a related note, why does everyone have to be so negative?? and, strangely, it's the usual suspects. I think I could start a thread like this and sit back to wait about who will enter and post the comments about how Pawn Shops and Coin Shops only rip people off, never pay fairly and are a haven for stolen goods. it is all so predictable. another ridiculous thing is that everyone seems to think they need to be made a party to every transaction, that for some reason they are entitled to know what a dealer pays for anything.
I guess those are the sorts of things which made me stop posting in the past.
Because people are curious and based on posts by others here about known dishonest dealers one should always be wary.
I'm not worried about divulging any secrets, it just isn't any of your business what we pay for stuff and it's sort of weird that people seem to think they have a right to know. your logic about me starting the thread is ludicrous. try doing this --- in a thread near the top of page one Dimeman started a thread that says he added some dimes to his set. go enter the thread and ask him to tell you what he paid for each of them.
good luck.
Hardly a fair comparison since people can make a fairly educated guess about what he may have paid for them. Had the customer shopped his wares around, he could have gotten a wide array of offers.
curiosity is one thing, but if someone has been around awhile like those asking "how much" then it just turns to rudeness. as for the latter part of your post I would challenge you to find one post, one incident or even one member who alleges I have acted dishonestly.
if someone is "curious" about me, then they should use the PM function and ask around.
If you are going to post this, be prepared for some of us to ask about it. A 50K rock is a big deal for most pawn shops I am guessing. If you know it is near flawless, it also implies you guys know what you are doing.
Because people are curious and based on posts by others here about known dishonest dealers one should always be wary.
curiosity is one thing, but if someone has been around awhile like those asking "how much" then it just turns to rudeness. as for the latter part of your post I would challenge you to find one post, one incident or even one member who alleges I have acted dishonestly.
if someone is "curious" about me, then they should use the PM function and ask around.
The posts about known dishonest dealers weren't about you, not even close.
OK, butthead, next time you post about a coin I'll ask what you paid for it and I expect an answer...................pronto!!
un freakin' believable.
If you are going to post this, be prepared for some of us to ask about it.
OK, butthead, next time you post about a coin I'll ask what you paid for it and I expect an answer...................pronto!!
un freakin' believable.
The only negative one in your threads, ends up being you. Ask away on any coin i post. I may not tell you, but I can promise you I won't cry like a little girl. You don't want to talk about the rock, then don't mention it. By the way, how much did you pay?
It does look like you have a nice store with lots of stuff. Super Mega Pawn:
fetgit the pump, lets see the yellow carbon!
.
If you are going to post this, be prepared for some of us to ask about it.
OK, butthead, next time you post about a coin I'll ask what you paid for it and I expect an answer...................pronto!!
un freakin' believable.
The only negative one in your threads, ends up being you. Ask away on any coin i post. I may not tell you, but I can promise you I won't cry like a little girl. You don't want to talk about the rock, then don't mention it. By the way, how much did you pay?
It does look like you have a nice store with lots of stuff. Super Mega Pawn:
What a projection.lol
You are Ms/Mr Negativity.
Keets is great. You not so much.
Sit quietly, and learn young lady/sonny.
maybe you should consider using the edit button.
I don't own YELP or the internet, go cry to them. A storefront is very PUBLIC information. Unless that is not the store where you work and talk about all the time, I stand correct. Nice store.
thanks for that info.
I also had one of the 1971's on a Cleveland Commemorative that I sold and I think I still have a 1921 Morgan, a 1ozt. Silver bar with that die, two of the larger medals and even two Sets that are similar from the 1964 ANA Show held in Cleveland. it's interesting that Ron Landis did the third dies, I wonder who he did them for?? whoever it was, they certainly stamped a much wider variety of items and many, many more than the previous two celebrations. I suppose that by 1996 using a Cleveland Commemorative was cost prohibitive.
of the three strikes, I believe the 1971 was the smallest.
It makes sense that Ron Landis would make the 3rd dies since he purchased his first 2 coin presses from the Heraldic Art Company estate sale and Robert McNamara made the 2nd dies. Small world.