Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin No coins I've ever submitted and got graded at PCGS were sent to CAC. I have little doubt that any of them would fail to get a sticker there. I had a dream about CAC , once. It was very regimented. I guess dream coins are that way, too. As are those who follow the leader. Everyone in line, now.
Not sure why you continue to argue the blatantly obvious fact that CAC adds value to any coin that actually deserved to be sent in. Just recently I sold a CAC CC Morgan for $1500 more (40% more) than they were selling for without. It has nothing to do with opinions or agreeing with anyone, these are the simple facts.
Have to agree with you 100% CAC adds value. That is what it was made for. You were very smart to have your coin stickered and be able to sell it for 40% or $1,500 above the current "market" price.
On the other hand, would you wish to be the person who was just buried in that coin?
...On the other hand, would you wish to be the person who was just buried in that coin?
Buried??? Who twisted the arm (or opened the checkbook) of the buyer? More than likely nobody, unless they got caught up the bidding frenzy, if there was one.
oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's
I am sure the buyer was happy with the coin. I am just wondering if he will still be able to sell it for 40% above "market" when he wants to sell it.
Wabbit2313 says the coin sold for $1,500 or 40% above what non stickered coins were selling for. That means non stickered coins are selling for $3,750 and he sold a coin in the exact same grade for $5,250.
Sooo, maybe that's not the definition of being buried but I still wonder if in the future the coin will readily sell for a similar premium.
Originally posted by: coindeuce JA sold his share in NGC, and NGC is still ticking. Were JA to divest himself of CAC, the same would be true. His business acumen is only exceeded by his ethics.
Respectfully I don't think the comparison works if JA is still looking at every coin for CAC.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
JA sold his share in NGC, and NGC is still ticking. Were JA to divest himself of CAC, the same would be true. His business acumen is only exceeded by his ethics.
Respectfully I don't think the comparison works if JA is still looking at every coin for CAC.
Originally posted by: DIMEMAN "Why don't you send in a random 20 coins and see how you do? You might be surprised. Cheap experiment. "
That would be over $300.......which would buy a real nice Bust Dime for my set.
I have never sent a coin to CAC and never will. I don't believe in it or need it.
We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Dime, I think it's interesting to make so many CAC observations and assumptions without ever trying the service. Doing a scaled down version of what the most interesting man in world suggested could change your opinion of CAC. You have proven on grading threads you have a keen eye but just maybe trying the (CAC challenge*)possibly help sharpen your grading skills.
Full disclosure, I have no dog in this fight as I also don't have any CAC stickered coins.
* I have trademarked the term CAC challenge however I do encourage JA to steal the idea and create a CAC challenge urging serious collectors to give it a try. In return all I ask for my idea is for CAC to give me 5 free submittals.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Not sure why you continue to argue the blatantly obvious fact that CAC adds value to any coin that actually deserved to be sent in. Just recently I sold a CAC CC Morgan for $1500 more (40% more) than they were selling for without. It has nothing to do with opinions or agreeing with anyone, these are the simple facts.
Have to agree with you 100% CAC adds value. That is what it was made for. You were very smart to have your coin stickered and be able to sell it for 40% or $1,500 above the current "market" price.
On the other hand, would you wish to be the person who was just buried in that coin?
The definition of being buried in a coin is when someone buy a substandard coin in the holder with an incorrect grade on the label. There are plenty out there. I can promise my MS67 was in fact a 67, because PCGS and CAC said it was, and CAC said it was nice for the grade.
That said, what do I care about someone being able to sell the coin in the future? I sure have never been given a guarantee like that in return.
OH, so because I don't agree with you and other CAC dependent people I am the 2nd grader??
Well, at least I can tell what is nice by myself and don't need a sticker to say it for me.
Not sure why you continue to argue the blatantly obvious fact that CAC adds value to any coin that actually deserved to be sent in. Just recently I sold a CAC CC Morgan for $1500 more (40% more) than they were selling for without. It has nothing to do with opinions or agreeing with anyone, these are the simple facts.
I'm not arguing that coins with CAC bring more money. There is a reason for this. People (CAC followers) go gaga and bid them up. There are hundreds of thousands of coins without stickers that are just as good. I probably have hundreds of coins that would have stickers if I chose to send them in. I just have better things to spend my money on.
So of my coins had stickers and now don't because I sent them to PCGS for variety attribution thus loosing the sticker and there is no way I will spend money to get the sticker back.
I just don't need the sticker.
But you do need PCGS, no?
No, I don't need PCGS. I like my coins in PCGS holders for the following reasons, which I have stated before.
1) It is a very good way to store coins for protection.
2) I like the Registry sets and all coins are PCGS.
3) For protection for my family when I am gone.
Many people don't NEED CAC or PCGS, but many people WANT them. Depends which side of the want/need line you're on.
"Why don't you send in a random 20 coins and see how you do? You might be surprised. Cheap experiment. "
That would be over $300.......which would buy a real nice Bust Dime for my set.
I have never sent a coin to CAC and never will. I don't believe in it or need it.
We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Not if they didn't sticker, it wouldn't.
Unless sent under a dealer's account.
As a collector, if they don't sticker, you aren't charged. If you were to send in 20 random coins, odds are against a majority stickering UNLESS you picked top notch quality for all of them from the get go.
As for not sending them in because you don't believe in it or need it, that's your choice and it is a respectable one. Just not always cool trashing on others that DO choose to send to CAC or appreciate the opinion of their coins from JA.
JA sold his share in NGC, and NGC is still ticking. Were JA to divest himself of CAC, the same would be true. His business acumen is only exceeded by his ethics.
Respectfully I don't think the comparison works if JA is still looking at every coin for CAC.
"Why don't you send in a random 20 coins and see how you do? You might be surprised. Cheap experiment. "
That would be over $300.......which would buy a real nice Bust Dime for my set.
I have never sent a coin to CAC and never will. I don't believe in it or need it.
We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Not if they didn't sticker, it wouldn't.
Unless sent under a dealer's account.
As a collector, if they don't sticker, you aren't charged. If you were to send in 20 random coins, odds are against a majority stickering UNLESS you picked top notch quality for all of them from the get go.
As for not sending them in because you don't believe in it or need it, that's your choice and it is a respectable one. Just not always cool trashing on others that DO choose to send to CAC or appreciate the opinion of their coins from JA.
Well put. Earlier he said one of his goals was to protect his family when he dies. At this point and time the number one combination to do that is PCGS plastic with a sticker. It is what it is
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Originally posted by: DIMEMAN "Why don't you send in a random 20 coins and see how you do? You might be surprised. Cheap experiment. "
That would be over $300.......which would buy a real nice Bust Dime for my set.
I have never sent a coin to CAC and never will. I don't believe in it or need it.
We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Not if they didn't sticker, it wouldn't. Unless sent under a dealer's account.
As a collector, if they don't sticker, you aren't charged. If you were to send in 20 random coins, odds are against a majority stickering UNLESS you picked top notch quality for all of them from the get go.
As for not sending them in because you don't believe in it or need it, that's your choice and it is a respectable one. Just not always cool trashing on others that DO choose to send to CAC or appreciate the opinion of their coins from JA.
I have never bashed those that use CAC. I have only stated that I don't need JA's opinion and would rather spend my money on more coins. If I see a coin I need and like I buy it...if it has a sticker or not.
I have never bashed those that use CAC. I have only stated that I don't need JA's opinion and would rather spend my money on more coins. If I see a coin I need and like I buy it...if it has a sticker or not.
LOL. Did you already forget your above comment calling all of us STUPID??
If there is a CAC thread, you are always there with negativity.
I have never bashed those that use CAC. I have only stated that I don't need JA's opinion and would rather spend my money on more coins. If I see a coin I need and like I buy it...if it has a sticker or not.
LOL. Did you already forget your above comment calling all of us STUPID??
If there is a CAC thread, you are always there with negativity.
You didn't read my reply correctly. I never called anybody stupid. I said there were some stupid things said. There is a big difference.
It was like something has happened to JA.....the sky is falling! No one person has that much impact on this hobby......NOBODY.
Not sure why you continue to argue the blatantly obvious fact that CAC adds value to any coin that actually deserved to be sent in. Just recently I sold a CAC CC Morgan for $1500 more (40% more) than they were selling for without. It has nothing to do with opinions or agreeing with anyone, these are the simple facts.
Have to agree with you 100% CAC adds value. That is what it was made for. You were very smart to have your coin stickered and be able to sell it for 40% or $1,500 above the current "market" price.
On the other hand, would you wish to be the person who was just buried in that coin?
The definition of being buried in a coin is when someone buy a substandard coin in the holder with an incorrect grade on the label. There are plenty out there. I can promise my MS67 was in fact a 67, because PCGS and CAC said it was, and CAC said it was nice for the grade.
That said, what do I care about someone being able to sell the coin in the future? I sure have never been given a guarantee like that in return.
Being buried in a coin has nothing to do with the grade or quality of the coin. Every coin is a good buy at a given price and if you pay enough above that price you are not going to find someone in the foreseeable future who will buy it at that price and thus you are buried in it.
Now, I have no doubt that your coin is a superb coin without seeing it but judging by the grade and the sticker. But for myself, if I had purchased a coin for $5,250 that typically sells for $3,750 I would be nervous that I had buried myself in that coin.
That is not a reflection on you or your coin. I was just using your coin as an example because you threw it into the conversation. I am saying that I would not want to be into any coin that had that much premium over a similar graded coin.
Much of one's world is based on perception. Does the sticker add value to a coin? I think you have to deal with specific coins to get an answer to the question. If you're looking at a supergrade St. Gaudens $20, I'd say, yes. If you're looking at a Liberty Nickel in MS 66,I'd say, no.
The problem with CAC, unlike PCGS and NGC, as others commented, is that the latter have the infrastructure and personnel to continue, much like any large corporation. Adk yourself this: What will Rick Snow's Photoseal be worth when he is no longer buying and selling Flyers and IHCs?
"Vou invadir o Nordeste, "Seu cabra da peste, "Sou Mangueira......."
JA has too much power in my opinion. One man should not have that much influence over the coin market. But I know that I am in the minority one that issue.
As for what happens when he is no longer on the scene, that is what is faced by every sole proprietorship when the founder is no longer around. I have the entire coin market will not be tied to that when he departs.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
A couple points. if someone is not a "fan" of cac, do you avoid stickered coins ? Wouldn't you miss out on some tremendous coins ? Surely, avoiding cac 100% can't be a good strategy. Even if I don't agree about Someone being critical of cac , I can understand them ignoring the sticker but not avoiding a sticker. As for when when JA retires or if cac changes its standards---clearly there is market for this product and I assume someone will step in. Finally, regarding what happens to all those previously stickered coins----they are the same coin. If you believe in cac , they will still be solid or high end for the grade and will always be viewed that way by knowledgable collectors. We are told it's the coin---not the sticker or the plastic. Well assuming that you agree with cacs past and current standards---you will be just fine in the future.
Originally posted by: Gazes A couple points. if someone is not a "fan" of cac, do you avoid stickered coins ? Wouldn't you miss out on some tremendous coins ? Surely, avoiding cac 100% can't be a good strategy. Even if I don't agree about Someone being critical of cac , I can understand them ignoring the sticker but not avoiding a sticker. As for when when JA retires or if cac changes its standards---clearly there is market for this product and I assume someone will step in. Finally, regarding what happens to all those previously stickered coins----they are the same coin. If you believe in cac , they will still be solid or high end for the grade and will always be viewed that way by knowledgable collectors. We are told it's the coin---not the sticker or the plastic. Well assuming that you agree with cacs past and current standards---you will be just fine in the future.
No, I don't avoid stickers.....that would be foolish. I just don't need them. Most of the time they go away anyway. If I send the coin in for attribution the sticker is gone.
I don't avoid CAC stickers, but I don't have to have them when I buy a coin. In fact there are two coins in my collection that I know got a CAC rejection. I bought both pieces because the price was fair, in my opinion, for the coin.
I generally buy coins because I like them, and the price is fair. I don't accept the grades on the slab and CAC stickers at face value.
I have looked for CAC stickers in only two instances, when I was shopping for the round and octagonal $50 gold pieces. So many of those coins have been worked on that I decided to look for CAC approved pieces in those to instances. One was a PCGS coin, and the other NGC as things turned out in my quest.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I don't avoid CAC stickers, but I don't have to have them when I buy a coin. In fact there are two coins in my collection that I know got a CAC rejection. I bought both pieces because the price was fair, in my opinion, for the coin.
I generally buy coins because I like them, and the price is fair. I don't accept the grades on the slab and CAC stickers at face value.
I have looked for CAC stickers in only two instances, when I was shopping for the round and octagonal $50 gold pieces. So many of those coins have been worked on that I decided to look for CAC approved pieces in those to instances. One was a PCGS coin, and the other NGC as things turned out in my quest.
If the price is fair after knowing about a failed CAC attempt then I'm with you.
I feel the same way as you on gold purchases especially high dollar gold. That's John's sweet spot
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I've never paid more for a sticker. I've paid a premium for super coins that are stickered, and rarely find these super coins without stickers. I'm a big supporter of CAC none the less and have learned a lot over the past few years while submitting 100s of coins and interpreting the results. CAC and more specifically JA are an asset to this hobby, and I doubt they are making much of a profit off of their service. Just look at the fact they don't charge collectors for coins that don't pass. They are doing a great service there in education.
I think some people's worlds would be rocked if they tried the "CAC Challenge" or even just cracking coins out and getting them regraded raw. Although, I'm sure CAC and PCGS would be the fool, not them.
What do I know though, I'm running an 77% pass rate on submissions, and am told by many collector friends that I am too picky.
Edited to add: in the end though, every coin has a price, sticker or no sticker. I'd be hard pressed to stretch or pay strong for a coin that I know didn't pass.
I've never paid more for a sticker. I've paid a premium for super coins that are stickered, and rarely find these super coins without stickers. I'm a big supporter of CAC none the less and have learned a lot over the past few years while submitting 100s of coins and interpreting the results. CAC and more specifically JA are an asset to this hobby, and I doubt they are making much of a profit off of their service. Just look at the fact they don't charge collectors for coins that don't pass. They are doing a great service there in education.
I think some people's worlds would be rocked if they tried the "CAC Challenge" or even just cracking coins out and getting them regraded raw. Although, I'm sure CAC and PCGS would be the fool, not them.
What do I know though, I'm running an 77% pass rate on submissions, and am told by many collector friends that I am too picky.
Edited to add: in the end though, every coin has a price, sticker or no sticker. I'd be hard pressed to stretch or pay strong for a coin that I know didn't pass.
Maybe they should try the reverse CAC challenge. JA picks out 20 coins and decides which ones he'll sticker and which one's he won't sticker. Then he'll send them to someone like DIMEMAN and see if DM can tell which coins are which.
David Hall has a base annual salary of 500K a year as COO. He also owns 7.6% of Collector's Universe (think of what the dividends throw back with every calendar quarter alone) while his ownership stake is worth, at $19.44 a share, 234.4M.
I think I'd rather have Hall's revenue stream and ownership stake than JA's CAC income. Paltry by comparison.
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
David Hall has a base annual salary of 500K a year as COO. He also owns 7.6% of Collector's Universe (think of what the dividends throw back with every calendar quarter alone) while his ownership stake is worth, at $19.44 a share, 234.4M.
I think I'd rather have Hall's revenue stream and ownership stake than JA's CAC income. Paltry by comparison.
He must be one HELLUVA investor since the market cap of CLCT is about $173 mil.
CAC makes the 2 big houses a lot more money, in the long run. Let's face the coin facts. In essence, is there a need for such a plan with an entity such as the CAC ?
Like Valente151 I'm a big supporter of CAC and have learned a lot over the past six years by viewing 100's of coins and interpreting the results. CAC and more specifically JA are an asset to this hobby. I'm convinced that CAC's services are one of the best values in numismatics because they provide another important and affordable way for many numismatists to learn.
After reading this thread I feel compelled to remind people that JA has said many times that numismatists who are good graders do not require CAC's services. Yet many veteran numismatists have voiced there satisfaction regarding the additional knowledge learned from CAC services.
In addition, the current market embraces most CAC approved coins and rewards them with price premiums.
David Hall has a base annual salary of 500K a year as COO. He also owns 7.6% of Collector's Universe (think of what the dividends throw back with every calendar quarter alone) while his ownership stake is worth, at $19.44 a share, 234.4M.
I think I'd rather have Hall's revenue stream and ownership stake than JA's CAC income. Paltry by comparison.
He must be one HELLUVA investor since the market cap of CLCT is about $173 mil.
Yep, I do feel a little stupid now. Nonetheless, he is a wealthy man!
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Comments
No coins I've ever submitted and got graded at PCGS were sent to CAC. I have little doubt that any of them would fail to get a sticker there. I had a dream about CAC , once. It was very regimented. I guess dream coins are that way, too. As are those who follow the leader. Everyone in line, now.
Couldn't agree more!
Not sure why you continue to argue the blatantly obvious fact that CAC adds value to any coin that actually deserved to be sent in. Just recently I sold a CAC CC Morgan for $1500 more (40% more) than they were selling for without. It has nothing to do with opinions or agreeing with anyone, these are the simple facts.
Have to agree with you 100% CAC adds value. That is what it was made for. You were very smart to have your coin stickered and be able to sell it for 40% or $1,500 above the current "market" price.
On the other hand, would you wish to be the person who was just buried in that coin?
...On the other hand, would you wish to be the person who was just buried in that coin?
Buried??? Who twisted the arm (or opened the checkbook) of the buyer? More than likely nobody, unless they got caught up the bidding frenzy, if there was one.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Wabbit2313 says the coin sold for $1,500 or 40% above what non stickered coins were selling for. That means non stickered coins are selling for $3,750 and he sold a coin in the exact same grade for $5,250.
Sooo, maybe that's not the definition of being buried but I still wonder if in the future the coin will readily sell for a similar premium.
JA sold his share in NGC, and NGC is still ticking. Were JA to divest himself of CAC, the same would be true. His business acumen is only exceeded by his ethics.
Respectfully I don't think the comparison works if JA is still looking at every coin for CAC.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
JA sold his share in NGC, and NGC is still ticking. Were JA to divest himself of CAC, the same would be true. His business acumen is only exceeded by his ethics.
Respectfully I don't think the comparison works if JA is still looking at every coin for CAC.
Wasn't that my OP?
"Why don't you send in a random 20 coins and see how you do? You might be surprised. Cheap experiment. "
That would be over $300.......which would buy a real nice Bust Dime for my set.
I have never sent a coin to CAC and never will. I don't believe in it or need it.
We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Dime, I think it's interesting to make so many CAC observations and assumptions without ever trying the service. Doing a scaled down version of what the most interesting man in world suggested could change your opinion of CAC. You have proven on grading threads you have a keen eye but just maybe trying the (CAC challenge*)possibly help sharpen your grading skills.
Full disclosure, I have no dog in this fight as I also don't have any CAC stickered coins.
* I have trademarked the term CAC challenge however I do encourage JA to steal the idea and create a CAC challenge urging serious collectors to give it a try. In return all I ask for my idea is for CAC to give me 5 free submittals.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Not sure why you continue to argue the blatantly obvious fact that CAC adds value to any coin that actually deserved to be sent in. Just recently I sold a CAC CC Morgan for $1500 more (40% more) than they were selling for without. It has nothing to do with opinions or agreeing with anyone, these are the simple facts.
Have to agree with you 100% CAC adds value. That is what it was made for. You were very smart to have your coin stickered and be able to sell it for 40% or $1,500 above the current "market" price.
On the other hand, would you wish to be the person who was just buried in that coin?
The definition of being buried in a coin is when someone buy a substandard coin in the holder with an incorrect grade on the label. There are plenty out there. I can promise my MS67 was in fact a 67, because PCGS and CAC said it was, and CAC said it was nice for the grade.
That said, what do I care about someone being able to sell the coin in the future? I sure have never been given a guarantee like that in return.
OH, so because I don't agree with you and other CAC dependent people I am the 2nd grader??
Well, at least I can tell what is nice by myself and don't need a sticker to say it for me.
Not sure why you continue to argue the blatantly obvious fact that CAC adds value to any coin that actually deserved to be sent in. Just recently I sold a CAC CC Morgan for $1500 more (40% more) than they were selling for without. It has nothing to do with opinions or agreeing with anyone, these are the simple facts.
I'm not arguing that coins with CAC bring more money. There is a reason for this. People (CAC followers) go gaga and bid them up. There are hundreds of thousands of coins without stickers that are just as good. I probably have hundreds of coins that would have stickers if I chose to send them in. I just have better things to spend my money on.
So of my coins had stickers and now don't because I sent them to PCGS for variety attribution thus loosing the sticker and there is no way I will spend money to get the sticker back.
I just don't need the sticker.
But you do need PCGS, no?
No, I don't need PCGS. I like my coins in PCGS holders for the following reasons, which I have stated before.
1) It is a very good way to store coins for protection.
2) I like the Registry sets and all coins are PCGS.
3) For protection for my family when I am gone.
Many people don't NEED CAC or PCGS, but many people WANT them. Depends which side of the want/need line you're on.
"Why don't you send in a random 20 coins and see how you do? You might be surprised. Cheap experiment. "
That would be over $300.......which would buy a real nice Bust Dime for my set.
I have never sent a coin to CAC and never will. I don't believe in it or need it.
We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Not if they didn't sticker, it wouldn't.
Unless sent under a dealer's account.
As a collector, if they don't sticker, you aren't charged. If you were to send in 20 random coins, odds are against a majority stickering UNLESS you picked top notch quality for all of them from the get go.
As for not sending them in because you don't believe in it or need it, that's your choice and it is a respectable one. Just not always cool trashing on others that DO choose to send to CAC or appreciate the opinion of their coins from JA.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
JA sold his share in NGC, and NGC is still ticking. Were JA to divest himself of CAC, the same would be true. His business acumen is only exceeded by his ethics.
Respectfully I don't think the comparison works if JA is still looking at every coin for CAC.
Wasn't that my OP?
Nobody reads your posts
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
"Why don't you send in a random 20 coins and see how you do? You might be surprised. Cheap experiment. "
That would be over $300.......which would buy a real nice Bust Dime for my set.
I have never sent a coin to CAC and never will. I don't believe in it or need it.
We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Not if they didn't sticker, it wouldn't.
Unless sent under a dealer's account.
As a collector, if they don't sticker, you aren't charged. If you were to send in 20 random coins, odds are against a majority stickering UNLESS you picked top notch quality for all of them from the get go.
As for not sending them in because you don't believe in it or need it, that's your choice and it is a respectable one. Just not always cool trashing on others that DO choose to send to CAC or appreciate the opinion of their coins from JA.
Well put. Earlier he said one of his goals was to protect his family when he dies. At this point and time the number one combination to do that is PCGS plastic with a sticker. It is what it is
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
"Why don't you send in a random 20 coins and see how you do? You might be surprised. Cheap experiment. "
That would be over $300.......which would buy a real nice Bust Dime for my set.
I have never sent a coin to CAC and never will. I don't believe in it or need it.
We will have to agree to disagree on this.
Not if they didn't sticker, it wouldn't.
Unless sent under a dealer's account.
As a collector, if they don't sticker, you aren't charged. If you were to send in 20 random coins, odds are against a majority stickering UNLESS you picked top notch quality for all of them from the get go.
As for not sending them in because you don't believe in it or need it, that's your choice and it is a respectable one. Just not always cool trashing on others that DO choose to send to CAC or appreciate the opinion of their coins from JA.
I have never bashed those that use CAC. I have only stated that I don't need JA's opinion and would rather spend my money on more coins. If I see a coin I need and like I buy it...if it has a sticker or not.
I have never bashed those that use CAC. I have only stated that I don't need JA's opinion and would rather spend my money on more coins. If I see a coin I need and like I buy it...if it has a sticker or not.
LOL. Did you already forget your above comment calling all of us STUPID??
If there is a CAC thread, you are always there with negativity.
There's more to the story than just protection.
I have never bashed those that use CAC. I have only stated that I don't need JA's opinion and would rather spend my money on more coins. If I see a coin I need and like I buy it...if it has a sticker or not.
LOL. Did you already forget your above comment calling all of us STUPID??
If there is a CAC thread, you are always there with negativity.
You didn't read my reply correctly. I never called anybody stupid. I said there were some stupid things said. There is a big difference.
It was like something has happened to JA.....the sky is falling! No one person has that much impact on this hobby......NOBODY.
Not sure why you continue to argue the blatantly obvious fact that CAC adds value to any coin that actually deserved to be sent in. Just recently I sold a CAC CC Morgan for $1500 more (40% more) than they were selling for without. It has nothing to do with opinions or agreeing with anyone, these are the simple facts.
Have to agree with you 100% CAC adds value. That is what it was made for. You were very smart to have your coin stickered and be able to sell it for 40% or $1,500 above the current "market" price.
On the other hand, would you wish to be the person who was just buried in that coin?
The definition of being buried in a coin is when someone buy a substandard coin in the holder with an incorrect grade on the label. There are plenty out there. I can promise my MS67 was in fact a 67, because PCGS and CAC said it was, and CAC said it was nice for the grade.
That said, what do I care about someone being able to sell the coin in the future? I sure have never been given a guarantee like that in return.
Being buried in a coin has nothing to do with the grade or quality of the coin. Every coin is a good buy at a given price and if you pay enough above that price you are not going to find someone in the foreseeable future who will buy it at that price and thus you are buried in it.
Now, I have no doubt that your coin is a superb coin without seeing it but judging by the grade and the sticker. But for myself, if I had purchased a coin for $5,250 that typically sells for $3,750 I would be nervous that I had buried myself in that coin.
That is not a reflection on you or your coin. I was just using your coin as an example because you threw it into the conversation. I am saying that I would not want to be into any coin that had that much premium over a similar graded coin.
Just my opinion.
PCGS and NGC will continue.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
The problem with CAC, unlike PCGS and NGC, as others commented, is that the latter have the infrastructure and personnel to continue, much like any large corporation. Adk yourself this: What will Rick Snow's Photoseal be worth when he is no longer buying and selling Flyers and IHCs?
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
As for what happens when he is no longer on the scene, that is what is faced by every sole proprietorship when the founder is no longer around. I have the entire coin market will not be tied to that when he departs.
A couple points. if someone is not a "fan" of cac, do you avoid stickered coins ? Wouldn't you miss out on some tremendous coins ? Surely, avoiding cac 100% can't be a good strategy. Even if I don't agree about Someone being critical of cac , I can understand them ignoring the sticker but not avoiding a sticker. As for when when JA retires or if cac changes its standards---clearly there is market for this product and I assume someone will step in. Finally, regarding what happens to all those previously stickered coins----they are the same coin. If you believe in cac , they will still be solid or high end for the grade and will always be viewed that way by knowledgable collectors. We are told it's the coin---not the sticker or the plastic. Well assuming that you agree with cacs past and current standards---you will be just fine in the future.
No, I don't avoid stickers.....that would be foolish. I just don't need them. Most of the time they go away anyway. If I send the coin in for attribution the sticker is gone.
I generally buy coins because I like them, and the price is fair. I don't accept the grades on the slab and CAC stickers at face value.
I have looked for CAC stickers in only two instances, when I was shopping for the round and octagonal $50 gold pieces. So many of those coins have been worked on that I decided to look for CAC approved pieces in those to instances. One was a PCGS coin, and the other NGC as things turned out in my quest.
I don't avoid CAC stickers, but I don't have to have them when I buy a coin. In fact there are two coins in my collection that I know got a CAC rejection. I bought both pieces because the price was fair, in my opinion, for the coin.
I generally buy coins because I like them, and the price is fair. I don't accept the grades on the slab and CAC stickers at face value.
I have looked for CAC stickers in only two instances, when I was shopping for the round and octagonal $50 gold pieces. So many of those coins have been worked on that I decided to look for CAC approved pieces in those to instances. One was a PCGS coin, and the other NGC as things turned out in my quest.
If the price is fair after knowing about a failed CAC attempt then I'm with you.
I feel the same way as you on gold purchases especially high dollar gold. That's John's sweet spot
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I think some people's worlds would be rocked if they tried the "CAC Challenge" or even just cracking coins out and getting them regraded raw. Although, I'm sure CAC and PCGS would be the fool, not them.
What do I know though, I'm running an 77% pass rate on submissions, and am told by many collector friends that I am too picky.
Edited to add: in the end though, every coin has a price, sticker or no sticker. I'd be hard pressed to stretch or pay strong for a coin that I know didn't pass.
I've never paid more for a sticker. I've paid a premium for super coins that are stickered, and rarely find these super coins without stickers. I'm a big supporter of CAC none the less and have learned a lot over the past few years while submitting 100s of coins and interpreting the results. CAC and more specifically JA are an asset to this hobby, and I doubt they are making much of a profit off of their service. Just look at the fact they don't charge collectors for coins that don't pass. They are doing a great service there in education.
I think some people's worlds would be rocked if they tried the "CAC Challenge" or even just cracking coins out and getting them regraded raw. Although, I'm sure CAC and PCGS would be the fool, not them.
What do I know though, I'm running an 77% pass rate on submissions, and am told by many collector friends that I am too picky.
Edited to add: in the end though, every coin has a price, sticker or no sticker. I'd be hard pressed to stretch or pay strong for a coin that I know didn't pass.
Maybe they should try the reverse CAC challenge. JA picks out 20 coins and decides which ones he'll sticker and which one's he won't sticker. Then he'll send them to someone like DIMEMAN and see if DM can tell which coins are which.
I rather own/run CAC than any TPG.
Realone - are you sure?
David Hall has a base annual salary of 500K a year as COO. He also owns 7.6% of Collector's Universe (think of what the dividends throw back with every calendar quarter alone) while his ownership stake is worth, at $19.44 a share, 234.4M.
I think I'd rather have Hall's revenue stream and ownership stake than JA's CAC income. Paltry by comparison.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
I rather own/run CAC than any TPG.
Realone - are you sure?
David Hall has a base annual salary of 500K a year as COO. He also owns 7.6% of Collector's Universe (think of what the dividends throw back with every calendar quarter alone) while his ownership stake is worth, at $19.44 a share, 234.4M.
I think I'd rather have Hall's revenue stream and ownership stake than JA's CAC income. Paltry by comparison.
He must be one HELLUVA investor since the market cap of CLCT is about $173 mil.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
After reading this thread I feel compelled to remind people that JA has said many times that numismatists who are good graders do not require CAC's services. Yet many veteran numismatists have voiced there satisfaction regarding the additional knowledge learned from CAC services.
In addition, the current market embraces most CAC approved coins and rewards them with price premiums.
I rather own/run CAC than any TPG.
Realone - are you sure?
David Hall has a base annual salary of 500K a year as COO. He also owns 7.6% of Collector's Universe (think of what the dividends throw back with every calendar quarter alone) while his ownership stake is worth, at $19.44 a share, 234.4M.
I think I'd rather have Hall's revenue stream and ownership stake than JA's CAC income. Paltry by comparison.
He must be one HELLUVA investor since the market cap of CLCT is about $173 mil.
Yep, I do feel a little stupid now. Nonetheless, he is a wealthy man!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"