Question about hairlines on MS gold 2 1/2 liberty heads.

ironmanl63 · May 15, 2016 5:29AM

I have some very nice gold 2.5 liberty heads graded 64 and 1 graded 63. These coins have terrific luster with awesome color and eye appeal. There are also very few marks. These really look like they have the potential to upgrade. I was going over them with a fine tooth comb to decide which to send in for reconsideration. I noticed a few if you get them in the right light have some light hairlines. Some more than others. Could this be the reason that otherwise gems are held back at 64? Will PCGS grade a coin 65 or 66 with really light hairlines present? I am actually kind of surprised they let any get buy! I will post some pictures but the hairlines I am talking about don't show up in the pictures.

There is a wealth of knowledge on this site and I appreciate any and all comments and opinions! So let em rip.

1901 MS64 CAC

[url=http://imgur.com/fQAAoy6]

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[url=http://imgur.com/hcTGVoy]

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1903 MS64

[url=http://imgur.com/Tw77eKI]

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[url=http://imgur.com/aXzHfbX]

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1905 MS63 OGH

[url=http://imgur.com/TABnDvi]

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[url=http://imgur.com/Mjxhk74]

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1906 MS64

[url=http://imgur.com/kbQd038]

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[url=http://imgur.com/Kz2AZJy]

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Thanks in advance for your help!

Baley · May 15, 2016 6:19AM

Those are very beautiful quarter eagles and great photography! I think they're for the most part accurately though conservatively graded, if there are fine parallel hairlines when tilted in the light that don't show in the pictures, then yes, there's your answer for part of the reasons for the grade, there are just enough visible marks on the cheek and fields (esp. above the eagle) to merit closer attention, however as you say, the strike color and luster and eye appeal are all excellent so they're all probably worth a shot to upgrade a point, some set up coins that are more average for the grade might help too

grip · May 15, 2016 6:37AM

Fantastic looking eagles. Most look 66 going by your pictures.

TomB · May 15, 2016 6:49AM

There are differences between hairlines from cleaning, hairlines from light handling and hairlines from die polish (these aren't really hairlines, but they can look like they are). From the images, I cannot tell what you might have on those coins.

roadrunner · May 15, 2016 7:01AM

Just looks like a few tiny tics keeping those from gem. The 1903 ogh and 1906 look to be the 2 best coins....and essentially 65's. A few stray wipe lines won't keep one of these out of 65 or even 66 grade if the luster is killer and the coin has eye appeal. Some hairlines are deep though....and one of those across the face can be a 65 killer.

ironmanl63 · May 15, 2016 8:55AM

The hairlines on these coins are not die polish lines. I have others that show those types of lines. I would say the coins were probably lightly wiped or could be from handling. There seems to be to few lines to be from a cleaning. I do not have enough experience with how PCGS or any of the company's handle these types of lines. I did not even notice them until I really spent some time looking at the coins from all different angles. The coins really have nice color-patina and luster. They like gems to me but the hairlines scare me. I guess there is only 1 way to find out!

Would you guys recommend cracking out or reconsideration? I have been told cracking is the way to go but I would hate for them to come back not gradable!

Thanks for the compliment on the photography. The coins actually look better in hand. It is really hard to capture the look of the patina.

TomB · May 15, 2016 9:01AM

Do not crack them out.

Boosibri · May 15, 2016 9:08AM

Nice coins, I agree with RR on the two best.

erwindoc · May 15, 2016 9:39AM

Beautiful! Good luck with them if you resubmit. Ill be looking for a nice gem for a type set when I can save up the $$$

MrEureka · May 15, 2016 9:49AM

I would not recommend cracking coins out based on anyone's opinion that is based on the review of a photo, especially if you don't think that the problems are all perfectly visible in the images. (Hard to believe this even has to be said.)

ironmanl63 · May 15, 2016 10:39AM

Originally posted by: MrEureka

I would not recommend cracking coins out based on anyone's opinion that is based on the review of a photo, especially if you don't think that the problems are all perfectly visible in the images. (Hard to believe this even has to be said.)

Just looking for opinions on what others have done. I will make my final decision based on the coins and what I feel comfortable doing. Knowing that I will never be able to photo the tiny hairlines on the tiny coins, I know you will not be able to definitively answer weather to crack or not. But maybe someone with more experience than myself would share some insight on how things have gone for them. A lot of the people here have more experience with submitting than I do. That is one of the things that makes this board great. The ability to draw from others experiences to help in making ones own decision. Thanks for your input.

roadrunner · May 15, 2016 11:34AM

There's no risk other than the cert fees to send the group back for regrade. If you're lucky, the best one of them will go MS65 and easily cover those expenses. Either way you'll learn something. I'd take them to the next show you attend and show the group to someone knowledgeable in MS gem gold. That might save you from sending them in only to get back the same grades. Though I think the 63 will more than likely go at least 64. If you crack them, there's always a chance one or two of them has leftover residue/putty on them and you end up with BB's. You'd be lucky to get MS63 money for them at that point. Then again, the spread from 63 to 64 is fairly small. It's the jump from 64 to 65 that's worth taking a shot at.

msch1man · May 15, 2016 12:04PM

Originally posted by: roadrunner

I'd take them to the next show you attend and show the group to someone knowledgeable in MS gem gold.

This would be my advice. Though, I would also add, unless you're looking to sell them, I'd just leave them in the holders they're in.

ironmanl63 · May 15, 2016 12:11PM

That makes a lot of sense roadrunner. Thanks for the info! I truly enjoy this hobby! Always something to learn.

jonruns · May 15, 2016 12:25PM

I'd leave them in their current holders and send them to CAC if you haven't already done so...to some a CAC bean is worth more than a higher grade...

ironmanl63 · May 15, 2016 2:26PM

Everything I own is always for sale! I was hoping to upgrade and then submit to CAC. If they do not upgrade CAC will still see the coins eventually.

jonruns · May 15, 2016 4:33PM

For me....the incremental value to these coins of adding a + wouldn't be worth the mailing/fees...and the chances of upgrading a full point are so low that I wouldn't even try (crossovers are running 38%...so I'd guess a full point upgrade under a reconsideration submission is much lower than that)...

IMHO the 1906 is your best shot at going to 65..which has RR said that is where the money is...and I'm skeptical that if it was graded fairly recently...that it is going to move up...

ricko · May 15, 2016 11:43PM

Those are very nice gold coins... and from the pictures, not likely to upgrade. That being said,

in hand, one or more could possibly make the jump. Definitely do not crack them out if you resubmit.... Cheers, RickO

lkeigwin · May 16, 2016 8:55AM

Beautiful quarter eagles, nicely imaged.

I agree it is dangerous to crack them. Unless you're in love with the holders don't use the reconsideration service. PCGS must assess those coins through the plastic and they will be conservative. Furthermore, if anything upgrades you will pay a premium fee.

Use the "regrade" service. The coins will be cracked-out, graded again, and reholdered. You stand the best chance of upgrading when coins are seen raw. The grade guarantee applies so there is no risk. There's no premium attached to upgrades with the regrade service. And the new PCGS holders are by far their best ever.

Good luck! Be sure to get back to us.

Lance.

Question about hairlines on MS gold 2 1/2 liberty heads.

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