Poll - Have you ever submitted a coin to a TPG conservation service?
TopographicOceans
Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
What coin(s) have you submitted to a TPG conservation service?
Any before and after pictures?
Any before and after pictures?
0
Comments
Graded a beautiful PF66 DMPL and I was extremely pleased how it looked.
Sorry, no pics that I can find anymore.
bob
U.S. Type Set
I sent the coin to the NGC conservation service, which was only one that was available at the time. They removed the spot and graded the coin MS-64, which was accurate. I was able to sell the coin for a small profit, including the conservation fee in that calculation.
I also once had an Arkansas commemorative half dollar that was in a PCGS holder. The coin turned in the holder because it had been dipped and not properly rinsed. PCGS offered to dip the coin for me, which they did. That coin also looked okay, and I was able to sell it at a breakeven price.
--Severian the Lame
Sent in a dollar with great luster and some ugly spots. Came back with no luster and the same ugly spots. I guess leaving it in a jar of Jewelluster over the weekend did not work.
Are you saying that the conservation service left your coin in Jewel Luster and ruined it? Or are you making one of your disparaging jokes. Which service did you use as I'll bet they MIGHT HAVE A RECORD of your submission, right?
Sent in a dollar with great luster and some ugly spots. Came back with no luster and the same ugly spots. I guess leaving it in a jar of Jewelluster over the weekend did not work.
Are you saying that the conservation service left your coin in Jewel Luster and ruined it? Or are you making one of your disparaging jokes. Which service did you use as I'll bet they MIGHT HAVE A RECORD of your submission, right?
How else can you destroy luster without an abrasive cleaning? Strong chemical dip for a brief period or a weaker solution for a longer period.
The Norweb 1893-s Morgan in MS67 was severely affected by over-dipping. Probably lost 30-50% of its value due to luster removal in an attempt for a higher grade. Since I've never submitted for conservation, I recorded my vote for Joe Thomas on his 1893-s.
Here is the after image:
graded coin sale at link below
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipNItjHsIF_1nPvk5MqennKhv-5_TZcOr7ac9jB0
Before:
After:
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Here's one example, and maybe an extreme one because copper is sensitive and color is sometimes affected. Note the before pix had green spots in numerous places (e.g., upper, inner O in ONE, leaves at 10k, 6k reverse rim). Note too that the coin color changed somewhat but not in a necessarily bad way.
Lance.
The other coin I sent to NCS was a PF62 three cent nickel that I bought on Heritage. The fields were littered with some sort of ugly, dark haze, but the coin had a decent strike. I cracked it out and sent it to NCS because I thought removing the haze would increase the coin's marketability. While my main focus wasn’t on getting an upgrade, I did think it had a shot at PF63/64 if it had nicer fields. It came back PF65CAM. I can't really complain about that; it looked a lot better after conservation.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Sent in a dollar with great luster and some ugly spots. Came back with no luster and the same ugly spots. I guess leaving it in a jar of Jewelluster over the weekend did not work.
Are you saying that the conservation service left your coin in Jewel Luster and ruined it? Or are you making one of your disparaging jokes. Which service did you use as I'll bet they MIGHT HAVE A RECORD of your submission, right?
How else can you destroy luster without an abrasive cleaning? Strong chemical dip for a brief period or a weaker solution for a longer period.
The Norweb 1893-s Morgan in MS67 was severely affected by over-dipping. Probably lost 30-50% of its value due to luster removal in an attempt for a higher grade. Since I've never submitted for conservation, I recorded my vote for Joe Thomas on his 1893-s.
Actually, by the definition of "luster" I was taught: "The reflection of light from a coin's surface"; a POLISHED coin can have luster. It's just not the original mint luster that was on the 1893-S before it was over dipped.
I have been inside two numismatic conservation service labs. I assure you that they do not soak coins in dip over the weekend. Furthermore, I DOUBT the original poster EVER sent a coin to a conservation service as I'm sure he is very qualified to do his own conservation. Therefore, IMO, making jokes at the expense of employees who work in the labs is a cheap shot!
Next, this whole topic of over-dipping is full of myths. While it is a provable fact by experimentation (we have done them in a grading seminar using proper methods) that a coin's luster can EVENTUALLY be dulled by MANY, MANY, multiple chemical dips, it takes a lot longer than anyone on this forum would believe!
Another thing I have found by experiment: If a newly minted silver coin is dipped repeatedly it takes longer to dull its luster than if a coin is allowed to tone, dipped, allowed to tone, etc. This experiment took over a year and was "speeded-up" to get the coin to tone faster. We believe that allowing the coin to oxidize between dips, speeds up the deterioration of its surface.
We all have stories to back up our opinions. My favorite is the "dip" done on an early dollar by J. Halperin.
Tom
After:[URL=http://s16.photobucket.com/user/jmicky41/media/Mobile Uploads/2620d2_zpsischh0vu.jpg.html]
This dollar had an ugly spot behind her eye. NGC "appearance review" took care of it.[URL=http://s16.photobucket.com/user/jmicky41/media/cacpeace002_zpsd1fc49b4.jpg.html]
This $10 had some haze? putty? PVC? on it. It was in a PCGS holder and I was hopinf for a PL designation from NGC. NCS removed the gunk and left a washed out lifeless coin. No after pictures.[URL=http://s16.photobucket.com/user/jmicky41/media/heritagefun2013003_zpsa4b267ab.jpg.html]
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Another thing I have found by experiment: If a newly minted silver coin is dipped repeatedly it takes longer to dull its luster than if a coin is allowed to tone, dipped, allowed to tone, etc. This experiment took over a year and was "speeded-up" to get the coin to tone faster. We believe that allowing the coin to oxidize between dips, speeds up the deterioration of its surface.
+1 to that. It's not the act of dipping that damages the coin so much as the corrosion (toning) in the first place. Usually, the dip only reveals the damage that was already there. For most metals, a thin layer of patina will actually protect the surface from further chemical attack. Repeated exposure of raw metal surfaces to the environment (after each successive dip) is a perfect setup for accelerated corrosion. Newly dipped coins are very susceptible to re-toning for a few months (years?). Loss of metal on a microscopic level eventually erodes the flowlines, and therefore the mint luster.
Also, when thinking of dipping / over-dipping, many people forget that luster is highly variable to start with. Luster is incredibly dependent on die state and many coins that "didn't dip well" probably didn't have that much luster to start with.
Not better not worse, just looked the same and I am out a bunch of money.
I think I can do as well as the big boys on some silver coins.
Copper well that's a different story.
Next, this whole topic of over-dipping is full of myths. While it is a provable fact by experimentation (we have done them in a grading seminar using proper methods) that a coin's luster can EVENTUALLY be dulled by MANY, MANY, multiple chemical dips, it takes a lot longer than anyone on this forum would believe!
It's no myth that the Norweb 93-s was ruined by some sort chemical dip/treatment. To the best of my knowledge, it had original toning prior to this. Regardless, it should have taken one quick dip to remove all the toning. To think this was dipped multiple times in a row to somehow improve the chances of grading MS68 seems quite absurd. There would be no reason to carry on after the 1st attempt. Fwiw I saw the coin at Norweb in Nov 1988 and it was superb with a totally clean cheek. I graded it essentially MS66 as almost nothing back then graded MS67 in 19th century silver type. It sold for $325K.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
I sent in a 1919S Buff nickel that had a black spot in front of the nose.
They DIMINISHED it greatly, but it came back with a vengeance.
Sold it with the spot.
Latest project was an 1895-S in PCGS MS-65 with moderately mottled toning, to PCGS for their "Restoration" . Ya think I mighta been a bit nervous about that one ?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Sent this NGC 1885 O Morgan to NCS a couple years ago as the obverse is dull and lifeless. Came back "bodybagged" with a note that said conservation would affect the grade.
Considered sending in for Appearance Review but would probably get returned as acceptable for the assigned grade.
Night Hawk
NGC then slabbed it. I was soso satisfied.
Jim
BEGORE:
AFTER:
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
to that end, the 1914 Lincoln Cent pictured should never have been considered as a good candidate for conservation, both by the submitter and the service.
Before they eliminated free spot review I sent about 3 dozen AGEs, ASEs and a proof Buffalo in to both NGC and PCGS 70 for spot removal/review. PCGS bought a few of the proof ASEs with milk spots everything else was successfully conserved. After a few years the spot was starting to recur on the Buffalo so I sold it. So far the other conserved moderns have remained spot free.
One was a rare China Panda, that had a spot, was removed and cleaned up nicely.
the other was a seated dollar that had a bad black streak on reverse, didn't do well. Honestly came out worse IMO.
Friend had a 1901-s barber half in PCGS 55 , nice lusterous and fresh except for a brown spot on the face. He submitted it to NCS
Came back with spot gone, but coin was completely washed out. I would have preferred it like it was prior.